Has anyone had their dac modded by RAM and purchased the upgrade also? |
stupid question but wondering why anyone would use usb to feed the pwd??. |
Funny, two years ago, before the bridge was released I was sceptical about the chances of succes of the bridge project and started inquiring with both Steve Nugent and Rick Cullen if they could build me a custom USB -> I2S interface using the PS Audio I2S interface - they were both very interested. I also asked PS audio if they would build this converter but they were so focused on the bridge architecture they declined (although they had already started doing work on this project but then ditched it). In any event, then the bridge was released and I dropped the USB -> I2S converter idea. Glad it to hear it came to fruition after all.... |
Jiminia......this might be a stupid question but why are you using USB to feed the pwd? |
My upgrade kit arrived a couple of weeks ago. The upgrade process was no problem. My DAC is an early one, and there were a few details that didn't match the video or booklet, but it didn't create any problems. The DAC upgrade in my view is a subtle improvement, but worth the money to an audiophile looking for improvements in an affordable form. I would say there is an improvement in clarity of detail, most of all.
Coincidentally, I've been fortunate to be a Beta tester for Steve Nugent's Empirical Audio Off-Ramp 5 USB converter. This version, which I suspect will be available shortly, will deliver I2S to the PW DAC. It has a few technical issues he is ironing out, but holy cow what a leap forward. I've used the Off-Ramps since version 1 because of the their superiority with USB and currently use version 4 with upgraded clocks. Until now, the output to the PW DAC has been spdif or aes/ebu, which is pretty remarkable anyway. But via I2S it is stunning. The sound is more dynamic, voices are better delineated, everything is more vibrant. And the bass is better. That's what surprised me most. Bass seems to be tighter, crisper. I also have a bridge and felt that the Off-Ramp 5 via I2S bested the bridge in sheer dynamics and transient attack. With the Off Ramp 5 via I2S and the upgraded PW DAC, this is the best I've ever heard from my system. |
Lev
The native setting is already a great improvement from the MKi in the ways you stated previously.
I would classify the native x difference as a step up in sophistication.
I know that sounds like a "broad" term but I really notice the difference after a week on X and then shift back to native.
I would compare it to different times of the day that provide different power qualities.
As far as the other "gentleman" who asked for a shootout with the BerkleyII, we just did it on the weekend and my friend is taking it back. Does that answer your question.
Not that the Berkley was not great. It was just different and we both preferred the PWD for extended listening.
Just sounds "less produced"
I hope to try the new WY4S dac in a few weeks |
Levy:
I absolutely love the sound of my system. I am getting a marvelous sound-stage with lots of air around individual instruments. I am not getting any sense of fatigue, even after long listening sessions. As I have reported on the PSA forum, I believe that I can hear subtle differences between the MKI and MKII versions - especially in the areas of "space" and imaging.
The only thing is, I just don't hear an immediately recognizable difference when I do an A/B comparison between Native and NativeX. It doesn't jump out at me. If there is a difference, it is the kind of difference that I will need to discern over time. My point in asking the question is because I keep reading the reports from others that they hear this very noticeable difference between the two...?? When I read these comments, I can't help but wonder if there is something wrong with my MKII board. Maybe it's just me...!!! |
Ben, that's where the good stuff is hidden imho...Native X!. it adds smoother detail and an almost "warmer sound". the improvements in space and the accuracy of that space using native-x are incredible. not so much adding space...rather defining the space and where the sound comes from. if you like a live sound...native x is a leap towards that end imho. am still on the honeymoon with the mk2 and glued to my rig, listening until the wee hours of the morning and getting up tired everyday. just can't get enough.
are you still having trouble hearing differences with the upgrade?
cheers |
MKII PWD owners, aside from the overall improvements provided by the complete MKII upgrade, more specifically, what is your impression of the difference between Native and NativeX? In doing an A/B between the two (by using the original remote and the new remote controllers) do you hear subtle differences or do you hear a really noticeable difference? |
This is one of the biggest no brainer upgrades I've ever heard. It is a remarkable improvement. One can hear the results as soon as you plug the unit in and press play. Better bass, wider soundstage, image location, image size is proper, all the tributes that analog is known for. I really can't find an issue.NativeX really makes a difference. During the burn in it just sounds better and better. Now after about 6 days it sounds very liquid, spacious and analog sounding. Everything is in its place and when you put on a recording that will stretch out your system and you give it the gas, look out . . . |
A couple nights back, I brought my Mk I to Sgr's house, and we A/Bed it against the Mk II in his system (which is sounding very impressive, btw). All present agreed the Mk II is a very noticeable improvement, particularly in areas such as detail, spaciousness, imaging, and clarity: the Mk I sounded sludgy by comparison. Though I'd have to listen more for a fuller description, I'd say the Mk II retains the relaxed non-edgy feel that I like in the Mk I. I suspect that a majority of (satisfied) Mk I owners will think the upgrade money well spent.
John |
Agree with comments above. An amazing upgrade. Smooth extended highs. More present and gripping lows. Higher and bigger soundscape with more depth and precisely separated image placement. Dynamics and extra heft and punch were immediately noticeable. |
The comparison that need s to be done is the PWD against the Berkeley Alpha MKII. |
no doubt G. i've had three people tell me i looked tired at work this week. can't stop listening. tell myself i'm only going to listen for a few minutes....then 3 hours goes by. am hating my alarm clock this week.
whats really funny is...i come home tired and do it all again LOL!
outstanding upgrade!. can't get enough. |
The comparison that need s to be done is the PWD against the Berkeley Alpha MKII. |
After more than 2 weeks of listening I agree with Levi that the MKI is but a distant memory.
A direct A/B might be interesting to read but I know,for me, there was a major jump in the signature of the MKII. Where I notice it the most is exactly the areas that I felt were weak in the previous model.
The stage was good but not great as were the separation of tones and instruments and midrange kick. The highs are now beautifully tonal and not at all fatiguing.
Not to say that the MKI was not enjoyable.
It was a great "bang for the buck".
The MKII is "a great bang for ANY buck". |
Ben, you have a very valid point. The only way/reason the changes were obvious to many of us is due to the preparation we had to undertake to make any comparison at all. This was the first time I've ever "taken notes" and "studied" for an upgrade. Knowing an a-b wouldn't be an option forced some of us to really focus on a handful of tracks to carry over ASAP to the mk2. For me.....this was why things sounded obvious from the get go. Had I not prepared and focused.....my comments would be the same as yours.
This is exemplified by the fact that I now have no detailed observations to report. Specifics on the mk1 sound are now a distant memory for me. Putting in music I didn't "prepare with" yields me your thoughts and comments to the tee.
Am yet to hear a negative review of this upgrade. No doubt some will eventually chime in not so happy but for me.....this thing is a slam dunk. |
Ben, I think that most people would need to hear both versions in the same system and be able to A/B them to get a good handle on the differences between them. I hope that someone is able to arrange this and report on the results. |
I have the B version. I would love to hear an A/B comparison between the A and the B versions. The A version has a direct "dedicated" interface protocol for the I2S clock cables, while the B version requires an "adapter-type" approach which, from a layman perspective, looks like a more complicated circuit, longer cables and all.
My PWD has never sounded better. I already had exceptional sound-staging, imaging and openness (airiness) with the MKI version. The MKII version does all that in spades, I just don't have the ability to say just how much better the MKII version is since there's no way for me to compare the two.
Some MKII owners (many...most...maybe all but me) are hearing what they call very obvious and immediately noticeable difference. Again, my PWD with MKII upgrade sounds ridiculously good...excellent...I just can't honestly say that I can discern such an obvious and immediate difference. I really want to.
I haven't done any real serious listening since everything should by now be "properly broke-in." I'll do that real soon.
Bottom line, some folks easily shell out $800.00 (easily) for one power cable. At $800 the MKII upgrade is such a no-brainer... |
Srg...love it. Sounds fantastic. One step closer to having the band front and center. I noticed bigger improvements to the bridge but the PWT also sounds better. Zero fatigue, silky smooth with the most non- digital sound I've heard from digital. I think you're gonna love it buddy. We stole it at $795 lol!
Install was easy for analog type A board. Type B looks a little harder but not much. Watch the video once or twice and you'll be fine. If my fat trembling fingers can do, anyone can ( kinda cool playing with guts of the thing as well lol)
Cheers |
Hey Lev,
My board is to arrive next week. Was it easy to install? What do you think now? I can't wait.
Sgr |
Hi Ben, just finished listening to some hi-res music you recommended a while back(i believe?). good call, as it was something i never would have stumbled on...but really enjoy now. Poncho Sanchez and Congo Blue from hdtracks (24/88). only problem is, i s*ck at articulating what i hear. will do my best but please do ask if something i say doesn't make sense. am thinking the new native x mode is responsible for most of the changes as that's where/when i could hear the differences best (not all though).
track 2 (B*Same Mama) had some very noticeable differences in my set-up(and to my ears of course). horns really separated and moved back and up. layer and definition....detail wouldn't be accurate imho because i had a ton of it before. after the horn "solo" towards the middle...the other horns blend in sweeter/softer but have a distinctly separate position/image. before they sounded almost stacked/crunched together....now they sound side to side...separate but very close (think live). also noticed the keyboard imaging stayed very consistent. this was not the case before as it shifted considerably as the song progressed. key's also seemed to have more dynamic range then before...becoming much more evident during certain sections. i do think there's a little more to it then my comments relay. bigger and "live-er" is what i'd call. no doubt many subtle differences help accomplish the new overall sound.
as a side note, i'm ecstatic about how it managed to up the bar on both the bridge and pwt. seems to me the bridge benefited a bit more because it sounds closer to the pwt now. they could be REALLY close or equal now imho. will know more soon and report back. this is the result i had hoped the most for. fingers are crossed!.
again...apologies for lack of audio terminology and sophistication....hope it points you in direction at least. this was the best i could do with 1 day under my belt. =) |
I too have the MKII installed. I would, however, classify the differences that I am hearing as subtle, so I want to get a better idea of what to listen for. I would be interested to hear about some specifics regarding what you guys, Levi, Grobec...others, are hearing. What specifically are the immediate and obvious differences that you are referring to?
Thanks,
_Ben |
Update on the PWD MKII
Shipping has begun and mine is here singing with the biggest jump in SQ that I have experienced in a long time.
48 hours left to get the "early" pricing and February delivery.
Mine was the first one but others have started receiving and posting here.
Eat your words non believers!
http://www.psaudio.com/forum/#/discussion/2801/the-first-25-impressions |
Just received and installed my upgraded board this afternoon. Very simple process to say the least. As good as the PWD was/is......this upgrade takes it to yet another level. Space, detail, layers and separation have all been improved. And this with only a few hours of listening. Both the bridge and the PWT have benefitted from this upgrade IMHO. Plan on doing another comparison of the two when things get settled in. I can already tell they are closer now but will wait and see.
the new native x mode is fabulous!!. You can hear the difference immediately and obviously. Hi res left me speechless.....really! |
The PWD is the only DAC I auditioned that approximated vinyl. |
Mrtennis, There was a recent review in Stereophile on one of the Peachtree DAC/integrated amps, IIRC. The reviewer loved it but John Atkinson's measurements showed high levels of jitter.
The manufacturer's comments stated that they had not bothered to measure the jitter because they were so happy with the sound of the unit. They added that since they had been made aware of the jitter they had taken steps to reduce it and all the unit that were currently available had gotten this fix. It was pretty funny. |
PS Audio describes in detail the changes that it has made to its digital board (the upgrade) and the benefits derived. Just go to PS Audio and click on the MKII Upgrade link in the upper right hand corner of the homepage. |
Mr. Tennis, basing your purchase decision on an $800 upgrade with a full money back guarantee on "reports" from others, stikes me as misguided. Just get the upgrade, hear for yourself and send it back if you don't like it. |
Well, I hope in the case of the MK II upgrade, that your hypothesis, Mr. T, is not correct. I understand what you are suggesting, but my understanding of jitter is that it typically causes an etched and "tinny-sounding" treble that is often fatiguing due to upper-frequency harshness and often sited as the primary cause of "that digital sound." To me, this has nothing to do with resolution and clarity.
One thing for certain, is that Paul McGowan is an admitted analog guy who still considers good vinyl playback as the standard. He has also said that he prefers the warm "tube-like" sound (when done properly) over even today's typical digital sound. So one can hope that his idea of analog-sounding digital playback is on par with what most audiophiles seek.
It may be marketing hype. Again, we'll have to wait to find out. Certainly though, $800.00 isn't a lot to spend in this hobby and if the outcome is close to what the claims are being made by Mr. McGowan, then it will be money well spent. |
regarding jitter, i have an interesting experience to report.
several years ago, a friend of mind and i compared commercial cds with the same titles mastered by bmg.
we both heard differences between the two masterings.
the bmg version was less dynamic, less focused, softer, but more listenable, as a slight veil, mitigated the nastiness of some poorly recorded cds.
i preferred the bmg version.
we sent the bmg discs, to chesky, to be analyzed by dick katz, who was, at the time, the recording engineer.
he sent back the discs with a note suggesting that the bmg discs had more jitter.
this experience led to conjecture that more jitter is not always more unpleasant than less jitter.
in addition, when using the term more analogue, it doesn't necessarily mean more tube-like, softer in the treble and less focused.
the term, "digital" may refer to frequency response aberrations, especially in the treble.
in additiopn, as i have said, having followed the evolution of the products of ps audio, they tend to make improvements in the direction of greater resolution and transparency.
an example will illustrate my thesis.
my friend purchased ps audio's first, top-of-the line digital cable (coax), while i purchased the second version, also, top-of-the-line.
when comparing the digital cables, both of us preferred the earlier version, as it was more full bodied and balanced.
while many appreciate such an approach, i am concerned that if i am accurate in my prediction, the upgrade may improve the sound of well-recorded cds but reveal the flaws in poor quality discs.
thus, a trade-off will be created giving the listener some improvements, but perhaps, also including some degradation in sound, depending upon sound quality.
in any case, i have received good advise to wait for reports from those who have acquired and listened to the affects of the upgrade, before considering purchasing thee upgrade. |
Mr T, you raise some good points and from your perspective, we will have to wait and see.
The MK II upgrade does add an asynchronous USB path capable of handling up to 24/192. That, while interesting to the computer audiophile, doesnt mean as much to the dedicated Bridge user, but it is certainly interesting just the same. What is of most interest, is the addition of a new Digital Lens with the Native X feature, which will purportedly reduce jitter levels to below 1 pico second.
While reducing (with the goal of eliminating) jitter can never be a bad thing (and in itself, if implemented properly, should not result in a more digital sound as I believe you have some concerns), my concern is that this new lens will have more impact (benefit) on the inputs other than the Bridge (since the Bridge also incorporates a Digital lens). According to Paul McGowan, the new Digital Lens will also benefit the Bridge input (again, well have to wait and see).
According to PS-Audio, additional upgrades and attention have been given to the analog path, with new high speed analog switches replacing the previous saturated logic switches. Additionally, 11 new spot regulators have been added to the circuit layout. Again, according to Paul McGowan, all this new design work is purportedly said to result in a much more analog-like sound than what the MK I version currently provides. And since this would by definition mean less digital-sounding, it is here that we PS-A fans and converts put our money literally.
|
Simple. Get the upgrade and return it for a full refund if you don't like it. |
reduction of jitter; more analogue sound. |
for those who have ordered the upgrade, what sonic benefits do you expect to achieve ?
i have the pwd, and i am concerned that the upgrade will increase resolution, which i feel it is not lacking. i use the pwt with the dac, via hdmi.
i have tried other digital interfaces and consider the hdmi mode the warmest of all. yet, the combination is not tube like at all. i prefer my audionte , a 1992 cd player.
i don't think the pwd needs and more resolution, dynamics, lowering of the noise floor or reduction in inaccuracy. so, what is to be gained by upgrading, considering the cost of doing so ? |
Edorr:
Texas asked the same question after you already answered him...LOL!! |
What do you mean invisible? |
|
Is there anybody that already listen to the new upgrade? Or somewhere on a forum anybody talking about the result of the new upgrade?
Alex |
No one outside of PS audio has heard it yet. |
Is there anybody that already listen to the new upgrade? Or somewhere on a forum anybody talking about the result of the new upgrade?
Alex |
Ordered my mk2 upgrade kit |
I just realized that with the DL being incorporated into the dac, it won't be possible for a non-PSA source to go I2S. |
yup, just ordered my 3A version kit. Can't wait ! |
Just ordered the upgrade from PS Audio for $795. |
That's correct PWD MKII will increase by $1000.00 |
Tabl10--
Audio Advisor sends out their periodic advertising supplements. The latest one--I've recycled it already but it came about 4 days ago--said something about this being the last chance to buy the Perfect wave at $2995, because it was shortly due to increase by $1000 in price. |
The outlets are gray not black. |
"Why offer an outlet with a nickel coating, tout it as the best, produce a gold-plated version, cancel both products and then offer two multi-kilo Power Plants with the inferior outlet?"
I believe Paul had mentioned in one of the forum posts that the P5 had the Power Ports and the P10 had the Power Port Premier. Is this not the case? |
The $800 upgrade price tag is a real bargain if you consider what it would cost you to trade the MARK I version in for a new MARK II version. With depreciation, youd be lucky to get off for $1,500 (plus the trade) and likely even closer to $2,000.
Im very excited about the upgradability of this unit. Since we will necessarily need to open up the hood to do the upgrade, are there any recommendations for additional tweaking? I know the upgrade comes with a new HiFi Tuning fuse, but I wonder if anyone has any thoughts about further upgrades? (there are two fuses in the PWD; does the upgrade include one or two fuses?)... |
