PS Audio Direct Stream

Great review here http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue74/psaudio_directstream.htm

Ozzy,

Ted Smith said:
"The DS is about 3dB lower in output than many CD players or DACs.Most of us have much more than that amount of headroom so it's not usually a problem. The thing is that the PWD is hotter than many DACs so some people have systems with no preamp that work with the PWD but perhaps not without a preamp with the DS. (BTW other people have systems for which the PWD has too high of output level and are happy that the DS has a lower output level.)"

Kana813, That seems to be on the low side and is different than the specs posted on the PS Audio website.
I wonder which is correct?

Ozzy,

Ted Smith posted these specs for the DS output on the PS Audio forum:

Balanced: 2.8V RMS or 8V p-p 300 Ohms
Unbalanced: 1.4V RMS or 4V p-p 150 Ohms

I just checked the specs for the Direct Stream.
The balanced out is 5.3Vrms 200 ohms.
Then I checked the balanced output of the BSG QOL and its output is 10Vrms 50 ohms.
So, perhaps that is why I don't need the preamp.

Sabai,
My system is posted on this site, and I don't use the Data Stream DAC.
My comment was a general observation based on hearing numerous audio systems over the years. If direct source to amplifier sounds better to you then that's the right way to go. It just hasn't been true in my listening encounters.

What's not system dependent is with digital domain volume control, bits are dropped when not operating full range and resolution suffers. Whether you can hear the difference is system dependent ... depends on the quality of your system.

Ozzy :-
"So, when I say I am running the Direct Stream direct to my amp that's not exactly true. The Direct Stream first goes to the QOL and then to the Pass Labs Amp.
Yes, I have tried the Direct Stream bypassing the QOL, but I prefer the QOL in the chain."

That about says it all for Ozzy's personal experience.

Yes, Charles1dad -

"... to each their own."

I was stunned when I brought a demo unit home, a highly vaunted preamp worth $13K or so.

It clobbered the music. We tried and tried to like it, but simply couldn't listen for more than 1/2 hour.

This was running from a PWDII. Didn't try it with the DirectStream, but I am running DS to amp right now. I have an old, simple tube pre that I might try soon, but I don't have high hopes.

Charles1dad,

Do you have the DS hooked up to a preamp? If so, what preamp are you using?

+2 Fsmithjack. A "high quality" preamp in most systems will sound better than a direct source to amplifier IMO. As always, to each their own.

Metralla,

Oxygen.

What are you using for bait? ;-)

Regards,

Ozzy,

I guess I'll just have to wait with baited breath till I finally order my DS. I have an Atma-Sphere S30 power amp.

I think it really depends on the Amp your using with the Direct Stream as to if a Preamp is necessary. And, if you need additional analog inputs.

+1, Fsmithjack.

Ur Welcome ... For what it's worth this DAC has not stopped getting better. I'm waiting for the ceiling. My system is pretty dang revealing and I guess it could be my Wilson's speakers still breaking in as well but in my system it has not leveled off yet. For the guys using and/or complaining that are rolling w/o a pre. Really, for real at this level w/o a pre? You should buy a serious pre first, To each their own and all that but the pre? No pre? It's just not how it is supposed to be regardless what the OEM's spew out. The pre is where it's at. It's the blood and guts and would never ever consider optional but that's just mo. Anyways there is a progression and pre's in hobby are not really optional. There just not and especially at this level. I couldn't imagine this hobby w/o a pre.

Fsmithjack,

Thanks for this detailed description. Much appreciated.

Audiolabyrinth,

Sorry to intrude on Ozzy's thread, but the ones I have are the Cardas Clear adapters. The old Cardas I had were about $60 when I bought them about 10 years ago. I am sure the ones you have are much improved. Good luck.

Neal

Neal, after looking at their site, I do not have the adapters you have, the cardas adapters I have are $96.00 retail on the music direct site, I believe these are the new and improved adapters that are black, they have never been $50.00 to $60.00 that I know of, I will be useing them temporary, I will be modding my digital player with furetech xlr chassis out puts with Tara labs internal wireing anyway,thankyou for your reply, cheers.

Neal, I have the cardas new black adapters that are $112.00 retail, are your adapters Black color?, the only other cardas adapter I know of is called the cardas clear adapter, and that only comes in one type of connection that I cannot use, I will take a peek at the music direct site, cheers.

This is a response to:

06-06-14: Sabai

Thanks for the information about this tube buffer. Can you kindly describe some details regarding the difference with and without it on the DS?

Sure, it provides that tube depth and body to the sound at a level that just wasn't there or wasn't nearly as evident... It's impact is most in the sound stage depth and the distinct separation of the instruments. It lights up the edges of the center image for a more supple yet defined center image. That tripod of sound between a deep center image and the sound from the speakers but the sound is no longer from the speakers they are now further back in the space between the middle image and the actual speaker and it has nice effect on the speaker disappearing more than it was. So I find when it deepens the center and pulls the corners back and widens them. Now as they are wider it becomes more defined because now the corners are not only more widened and back but more illuminated in the rear canopy and the darkens corners are now faintly visible and that widen and fattens the entire stage and the entire process adds another level of depth and sophistication The realism and the stage becomes fuller and more enveloping. It is not subtle really at all. Now I am sure my preamp has a lot to say about this. That is why it is hard for me to compare to those with no pre. When I remove my tube output there is a big different and when I remove my pre it is an entirely different presentation so please take this into consideration but the tube output with this DAC and a good pre with good speakers I am sure will provide to a level what I am speaking of. I hope this answers your question. Thanks

Below is my response to this from 06-06-14: Wisnon:

Why not just get a properly designed tube Dac?? Adding just a random tube output stage wont compare well to a designed from ground up tube Dac like Lampi, VAD or Aesthetix.

Or just a iFi Audio iTube for even less money?

Hi Wisnon,

It's not really a random buffer because it has adjustable voltage and it is really a very well thought out special piece its just not real expensive. Really its about the music and the sound that s forcing my hand. I totally disagree that those units you named with be better than my PS Audio Direct Stream DAC with my output stage.

Steve Decker told me about this a few years ago and I have tried to remove it from my system many times and it's just a pest. A booger on the end of your finger...LOL because there is no arguing how incredibly effective it is at making decent digital pieces sound real good and great ones sound even greater. It's blatant. Trust me Vinny from Red Wine Audio is my neighbor and my bud and he offered to make me a custom, battery powered duel mono buffer but its really not about that. What happens is I buy new or a used but new to me piece and I like it as is and listen for a while and all is well and I then break down and plug in the ZSTAGE it is just better and not by a little. If I went out and bought a Lampi, VAD or Aesthetix like you mentioned I guarantee you I would listen to them and enjoy them and be happy and then I would plug the ZSTAGE to back of them and bam it will sound better. So I go through all that trouble and I still end up using it. Also, my current combo of a PSA Direct Stream DAC then 10 inch custom made solid pure silver Darwin Ascension cables made for this unit then to my old CAT Signature MKIII with Phono chalk full with cryoed, platinum Tele CCA tubes through out is going to be tough to beat. Trust me I have tried. I mean I know I can spend 10k on a pre and get improvement, well that is still a maybe the Tele'd out CAT is a beast and this DS DAC keeps getting better and better. If I was to upgrade something it probably would my speakers before anything else in my system for the most SQ bang for buck. They are Wilson Sophia 2's and they are pretty decent so well see how much better this DAC gets. If it doesn't get any better I will still be very happy as is and wouldn't want to dump just to get rid of my tube output stage... Thanks

It is always hard to know how much one tweak if affecting the overall sound, but in this case it was easy. These are far far superior to the BAT adaptors they replaced (and they were pretty good), and MUCH better than the old Cardas black adaptors which went for $50-$60/pair. These were $150/pr at Music Direct, are very substantial and high quality.

I cannot tell how much subtraction from what the sound would be if I had XLR terminations on the IC, but my pre is all unbalanced so I am not sure that would have changed anything.

Neal

@ Nglazer, Did you need to burn-in the cardas RCA to XLR adapters?, If so, How do they sound?, do they take much from the sound, what is your honest impressions of the cardas Adapters?, Excuse me gentleman for getting off topic, this will not take long, thankyou.

Ozzy that's exactly what the recent review from Audiostream claimed, the latest firmware gave more presence and space.

I just downloaded the new firmware update. Wow, quite an improvement in "air". I now have 360 hours on the DS.

The mind boggles, Ozzy . . . .!

I am sure there is some type of IC splitter that will let me run two sets of IC's into one input pair. but that does not sound optimal, espcially with a RCA to XLR adaptor to begin with.

Thanks.

Neal, I also have a BSG QOL unit. That unit has 4 rca or xlr inputs along with 2 sets of outputs.

So, when I say I am running the Direct Stream direct to my amp that's not exactly true. The Direct Stream first goes to the QOL and then to the Pass Labs Amp.
Yes, I have tried the Direct Stream bypassing the QOL, but I prefer the QOL in the chain.

Anyway, with my home theater set up I am using the front output channels from my Denon unit (preamp outs) to the QOL home theater bypass input. The Denon thus controls the volume for movies.

I have a DSD kit on order for July delivery, but question how I can run it directly into power amp, while still running my Sansui TU - 9900 tuner (and TV audio) through preamp into power amp. Unfortunately, my Krell FPB 300cx has only one set of (XLR) inputs, so if I connect the DSD directly (through top notch Cardas RCA to XLR adaptors), what will I do with my other sources?

This, of course, assumes the direct input will sound better than running it through my Wyetech Opal, which I doubt, but I am keeping open ears and an open mind.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Neal

Hi Ozzy,

Thanks for letting me know.

Sabai,

My Preamp is a Pass Labs XP-10. Every day the Direct Stream seems to be getting better and better.

The W4S server also has i2s

Another unit that I found that can connect via I2S is the Sonore Rendu PCM/DSD Network Audio Player with Ethernet Input and SPDIF/HDMI i2s Output.

This unit sounds very intriguing to me since it can connect to the network via Ethernet and access JRiver via JRemote on my office PC.

Another unit that I discovered that will have IS2 is the future PS Audio External Bridge that they will build after the PSAudio Internal Bridge II is released.

Ozzy,

What make is your preamp?

I now have over 200 hours on the Direct Stream.
Right now I am going straight into my Qol and then into the Amp. Thus, bypassing my Preamp.
I'm really likening it this way..

Yes, there are other units that can use the I2S via a HDMI cable.
But, its too bad that one of the 2 HDMI inputs couldn't be just used as a regular HDMI input.
So, I could use that input with my Oppo.

There are non-PSA units with I2S outputs that can connect to the Directstream. W4S server is one example.

Ozzy, My guess USB drivers are already installed on BDP-2 but I would stick with XLR.

BTW, have you compared BDP-2/DS to your Cary 306?

Ozzy, not so on that.

I use I2S from my Empirical Audio Off Ramp 5 into the PWD II I2S input.

Yyzsantabarbara, I thought that the HDMI inputs could be used that way too. But, they can only connect other PS Units with I2S outputs. If you don't have any of those, those inputs are useless.

Joecasey. I'm using XLR (AES) digital. I would like to try USB but I'm not sure about its compatibility with each other.
I read on the PS Instructions about downloading USB drivers. Not sure how to do this with the Bryston BDP-2 in place of a computer.

Can anyone tell me what you can connect to the 2 i2s inputs on the DirectStream DAC? I am under the impression that it is related to HDMI. If this is correct, is it similar to the NAD M51's HDMI input. I was thinking I could use it to connect the HDMI output from a 2 channel TV Cable Box (amongst other inputs I would use).

Ozzy, how are you feeding the DS? With your BDP-2?

Thanks Ozzy.

Try this
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/psaudio/1.html

Hi Ozzy,

This would not surprise me -- the famous Six Moons verbosity. Do you have a link? It does not turn up when I Googled it.

Six Moons just posted a review on the PS Audio Direct Stream. I don't like the writing style,(way too many words as useless chatter) but I think they liked it.

Thanks guys for the comments.
With each passing day the DS seems to be getting better.
By the end of this week it will have over 200 hours.
So, at that time I will reconnect my Pass XP-10 Preamp to compare.

Well I have to admit that some of my initial negative comments on the Direct stream were self inflected.

You see in my concern to get the best out of the Direct Stream, along with installing Synergistic Research fuses I also installed an Audio Magic "Pulse Gen ZX".
This product always seemed to bring the best out of digital equipment. But once I removed it from the PS Direct Stream the soundstage did open up quite a bit. I really don't know why, but it was evident.

But, if PS Audio didn't make claims about it needing no burn in time, I wouldn't be concerned.

I don't recall if Paul claimed no burn in for this DAC, but with all due respect to him and some others who've become virtual friends on the forums, I think this DAC does in fact need burn in. I agree you should wait before starting to change anything else, but I still think it's a good idea now to go into your XP-10 instead of right into the Pass amp. I read Ted's comments about that volume level still being okay, but if it were me I'd take it out of the equation by running it's internal volume up higher and using a fabulous preamp like the XP-10 to take care of that.