power conditioning question gentlemen


      I,m considering a power conditioner /surge unit ,Two sunfire subs,nu vista intergrated(draws some juice) ,transport,dac,tt, phono section (dc-ac i may just plug in wall)  .Dedicated 20amp run directly to room x 2 hospital grade rec. I have been looking into richard grays,furman ref,shunyata etc.I have a unique set up here in nor cal.I am completley off grid!,I run a serious solar and res set up with a genny back up.The power is pretty consistant although during changes in genny start up or at time it does fluctuate a little .I never hear it or have never measured a spiked it drops slightly during those milliseconds.I would like to snag a used one in the 1k range .
thoughts??

oleschool

Showing 13 responses by erik_squires

Furman's pro gear is very cost effective, and among the best surge protection you can buy if you get the line with series mode surge protection.

Richard Gray's is very expensive, but does a great job of cleaning up noise, however it's not a true surge/line protector. It's a resonant tank which does smooth out the power cycle to cycle, but won't really stop anything catastrophic.

Furman's home gear gets quite pricey.

If money is no object, and you never want to hear a bad power cycle I'd look at the Canadian PurePower, designed by the head of Jensen transformers, he knows his stuff really well.

http://partsconnexion.com/fin_prod_pp_main.html

Best,

Erik
To be complete, series surge supression is a licensed technology which SurgeX also licenses, and there may be others. SurgeX charges about twice what Furman does in the pro/commercial space though, so I haven't mentioned it.

SMP just happens to be Furman's name for the tech they are licensing.

Best,

Erik
Depending on what you need, you can get some features much cheaper. For instance, I think the SMP enabled surge protectors start under $200.

http://amzn.to/2b11jgr

As a surge, noise and over voltage protector, it’s as good as any other unit you can buy. It’s not pretty and doesn’t have a ton of outlets. One step up is the rack mountable with voltage monitor:

http://amzn.to/2b3GwUG

SMP is the only surge protection tech. that filters noise in the audible range, down around 3 kHz I believe. Most strips start around 100kHz and go up. It’s not snake oil either, I’ve taken them apart. :) SMP is the only thing I trust my expensive equipment with, replacement warranties be damned. It also protects you from low-level over-voltage conditions that a typical surge strip might never fire on.

None of these include voltage regulation (keeping it between 115 and 125), power factor correcting or remote turn on or multi-bank filtering (separate filters per outlet) though. That’s what you pay the big bucks as you go further up the scale, as it needs more weight to work in the form of transformers or transistors and heat sinks.

I guess my point is, the really cheap units are a lot more effective than people realize and may be all you ever want.

Best,


Erik
Parallel surge protectors are not all that, and I've seen them fail en mass. Not pretty.

First, they age and you have no idea how much. Second, they are slow. Third, their effectiveness can be compromised by the impedance of the electrical wiring. Lastly they may not even work.

Yeah, ok, maybe they sound better ( I doubt it) but for absolute protection it's series or nothing.

In addition to that, parallel units are slow. They take time to react. Series do not. They are designed as low pass filters, which means that a fast signal like a lightning strike can't pass through before it clamps. A parallel unit, most cheap, will let the spike pass before it clamps.  Repeatedly.

Best,

Erik
Hi @rippet,

Sorry I may have misread. If you were saying these units worked on the circuit, regardless of whether or not the items being "protected" were in series, then it must be a parallel surge protector.

If I misread that I apologize.

Otherwise, my original statements stand.  Claims of a NASA or KGB background don't change the physics of a circuit.

Richard Gray, who makes the best parallel system I know of, still can't do surge protection. A surge would have come and gone before it responded.  It is however very effective at smoothing out AC irregularities, such as by dimmer switches and motors, neighbors coming home, etc.

Best,

Erik
For an in depth technical discussion of series protectin, please see the links on this site.

http://www.brickwall.com/pages/the-worlds-best-surge-protectors

Of course, you can claim anything on the web, but having looked at the Furman units that use this, and examining the claims here, it all adds up. There's no snake oil. Its sound science and deep knowledge of AC circuits in detail.

Best,


Erik
Hi @oleschool

Sorry for not answering, I was having trouble following the models.

I don’t know anything about Core so I can’t comment. In general, power regenerators are the most expensive per watt. I really like and trust PurePower and PS Audio units.

The Furman conditioner with SMP, LiFT and voltage regulation is a great in-between unit. I use the Elite 15i PF and I'm very happy with it's performance. It has SMP and LiFT which is no joke. In addition to the measurements, I went without this unit for a while and really missed it.

My experience with Richard Gray was from a show in NY. They sold a bunch of units at the show to other vendors there because the power in the hotel was so crappy and they had the only AC conditioners which showed any  improvement at all. This was ages ago when I was shilling for InnerSound. Televisions were a big deal and the units visibly improved the displays.

But given your needs, I'd go Furman or step up to PS Audio/PurePower. Actually no, whe I'd do is stick with Furman and save the money for room acoustic treatment. :)

Best,


Erik
@oleschool

Given a choice between voltage regulation, and balanced power, I'd go with regulation in your situation, that is, going off grid for long periods of time. The regulation in the P2400 AR will keep your gear in optimal voltage ranges no matter what may come.

If you also have cable TV, I'd use a ground loop eliminator on it as well ($30 or less) unless it's built into the P2400.

http://amzn.to/2bEsOZS

Best,

Erik
@oleschool

Did I answer your question? If not, write to me directly.  I may not always be paying attention.

Erik
Well, like is relative.  It's relative to how much $$ I'd have to spend. :) :) :)

I do like big iron/transformers, and power regenerators.

If I could have it all, I'd go that route but in your case the two things I would NOT give up are surge protection and voltage regulation.  After that it's just how much extra $$$ do you want to spend. :)

Best,


Erik
@oleschool

I totally get it. That’s why I make my own when I can and gave up on things that don’t offer phenomenal benfits. I make my own speakers, cables, and music server which leaves me with a lot of cash for a nice DAC and room treatment.

Best,


Erik