Power Cables


Is it necessary to use the same brand and model of power cables for the amp and pre-amp? Any thoughts about mixing and matching? I know it all comes down to how they sound, but would love to hear your inputs or tips to guide me in the selection.
ct221933

Showing 4 responses by williewonka

Here’s the thing - Powerful transient signal demands - such as the crack of a side drum or the slam of a bass can draw significantly more power than the 5.21 amps sisyphus51 calculated BUT only for very brief moments in time. However, they do contribute to the reproduction of the realism of the music.

The standard power cable provided by the maunfacturer is not capable of responding to the immense demands of tranient signals. More advanced designs allow the conveyance of enough power in a timely manner such that an amp can perform up to its full potential and reproduce those transients more faithfully.

Monoblocks do assist in the dynamic reproduction of music because of their large transformers /power supplies, but it really depends on the amount of current actually drawn by the amp as to how effective a third party power cable might be.

Smaller components that have a smaller power supply will "generally" show more of an improvement in sound quality when a better quality power cord is employed

Components that employ Wal-wart power supplies will excell when their power supply is switched to something more substantial including a better power cord.

Also - the quality of the actual conductors used in a powercord will improve the speed of the reproduction of those transients - e.g. that drum will actually sound much crisper (faster) and the bass will have more texture and slam.

I prefer silver plated conductors because they are affordable and offer almost the same perofrmance as solid silver.

Then there is the geometry of the cable itself - this contributes to the overall clarity and imaging...
- The standard geometry of three wires side-by-side - perhaps with a slight twist - i.e. "The Norm" - is the worst possible geometry to use - it’s worst attribute is - it s noisy. To improve performance companies simply rely on conductor quality to achieve improvements in sound.

- Braided cables are less noisy and offer significantly better dynamic performance than the standard geometry and will show discernable improvements on components with smaller power suplies

- the best I have tried to date is a helix geometry - where the neutral and ground conductors are wound around the live condcutor - they have an extremely fast dynamic response with very low noise characteristics that results in the most realistic repeoduction of music.

So to sum up - that cable that comes in the box will do the job - but very poorly in comparison to other cables and especially a helix cable.

Many others besides myself have tried the helix design on a variety of systems (i.e. solid state and tube) and all agree they provide a significant improvement.

If you really want your system to soar to new heights - also employ IC’s and speaker cables that also use a helix geometry.

Unfortunately - the Helix Geometry is not available in power cables from third parties - it is currently only available to those that do not mind a DIY project. But if you can use a screwdriver and a variable speed electric drill take a look at...

http://image99.net/blog/files/category-002ahelix-power-cable.html

In answer to the question asked by the O.P. - the brand is imaterial - the geometry and other attributes of the cable is what makes for the best results

Hope that helps - Steve
@wmarkhall - I’ll attempt to address your questions in order, but some answers overlap...
what part --specifically-- inherent to the "advanced" power cable enables it to allow more power from the station / to the pole / over the lines / into your home through the walls after going through its own short run of wire?
An advanced power cable is generally constructed by using the best possible quality copper or silver plated copper
- this provides better conductivity, which improves the dynamic perofrmance of the cables.
- it allows for a faster response to the components "request" for more current
- a component’s circuitry draws current and when it cannot get enough current to satisfy it’s requirements the circuits internal voltages dip and distortions in the signal occures

And (b) what part of the PSU system within the component senses and allows more current than what it is specified to engage
The PSU senses nothing - it simply tries to deliver the amount of current requested by the internal circuitry of a component, as it tries to accomodate the demands of the ausio signal - and transient spikes are the most demanding.
- Again - if the transient spike requires more "power" (i.e. current) than the PSU of the components can deliver, the voltage dips and the reproduction of that transient spike is less than optimal and sound quality is effected.
However, the PSU tries to draw that excess power required from the mains supply via the power cable.
- An advanced PC will assist in that transfer
- a standard PC will not be able to convey the current in a "timely manner"

a timely conveyance of it, as you say, to increase audio transients?
If you can build "the perfect power cable" it would allow a component to process a transient spike completely.
- if the cable is not capable of conveying the power (i.e. current) required frpom the mains, then the amplified transient spike will look and sound quite different.

Finally (c) what makes this wire magic so expensive that it is not within the cost/benefit analysis parameters of the manufacturers to include it with their mid to higher priced products if the difference is so easily heard?
Modestly priced components are designed/built to a specific "price point" - they get the cables that the company feels "does the job at the price point"

More expensive audiophile components come with "reasonable" power cables, but the companies that make them believe that the customer will simply replace the included power cable, because that is what many audiophiles do - so why bother investing the time and energy when according to the consumer there is a better power cable out there.
It would be silly to pack an 18 gauge power cable with a McIntosh, so they get a cable that at least "looks the part" and maintain their credibility

But n addition to your questions I would like to address the geometry of the cable again, because this is the area that is currently being investigated by cable manufacturers...
- most conventional power cables are noisy
- it’s what happens when you place three conductors in parallel inside a sleeve - noise is induce into the neutral, and vice versa when the polarity changes.
- Most of this noise is dealt quite effectively by large power supplies, that’s why large power amps sound so good.
But in components with less than optimum power supplies this noise has an impact.

Of the simple geometries I have tried/built...
- braiding, because the three conductors are not in parallel, their ability to induce noise between them is reduced and sound quality improves by about 40-60%,
- the Helix design - where the neutral and ground conductors are almost at right angles to the live wire - the result is very little noise and much improved sound quality is achieved.

If you have a really noisy mains power supply (i.e. from the street) - then a good power cable will will simply convey that noise - but with more precision.

Another interesting point - people look at the mains supply and figure "it’s just 50/60 Hz - why would I need power cables capable of conveying the entire audio spectrum"
- I thought about this when I first read it posted here on audiogon
- Granted the voltage has a frequency responce of 50/60 Hz

BUT - what about the current that is drawn???
- as the audio signal is processed the component draws just the right amount of current to process it.
- if a loud bass note is processed a large amount of current is drawn
- if a quiet passage is processed much less current is drawn

So based on that - isn’t it reasonable to assume that the current drawn (i.e. over time) would in fact resemble the audio signal ?
- most of the time the components power supply does an adequate job of satisfying the demans of the connected circuit, but when those large transients come along, most power supplies will not deliver the required current in a "timely manner"

If that is the case, then for me, power cables with high quality conductors (as in the rest of your system), makes perfect sense.

I hope this answers your questions

BTW - I have no actual proof that any of the above actually happens - it’s just my early electrical education being applied in areas it was never really meant for and it’s also based on my "experiments" with different cable geometries over the last 5 years

Regards - Steve






@wmarkhall - as stated in my first post - components with large, well designed cords do not show as much in the way of improvements, compared to those components with smaller power supplies, such as source components.

WRT ...
explain to us how this makes a single iota of difference when in an amplifier’s linear power supply the current through the mains is only directly in use 5 to 10% of the time since the power supply system’s inherent design is to fill capacitors that provide smoothed and constant direct current for the supply rails that ultimately amplify the signal.

Alas I do not have the equipment that would allow me to ascertain an exact reason why...
- but I have observed that even an amp with a well designed and built power supply, such as Ayre and Gryphon, will show some improvement, but the improvements will be more subtle in nature
- I found that the acosutics of recording venue in live concerts sound more realistic and more noticeable and the image was bigger and more open.
.
I have tried the helix and braided power cables on amps from $350 - $10,000. The brands vary - Yamaha, NAIM, AYRE and Gryphon as well as a couple of tube amps and they all yeilded improvements in sound quality.

I will add that the improvements were more noticeable when the entire system uses the Helic IC’s and speaker cables also.

As @geoffkait said...
It all seems ludicrous until you try it and hear it yourself.
As for me - I can only pass on what I and others have observed and try to make some sense of it.

Improvements in sound quality on every system that employed these cables were reported by their owners.

But even after lots of threads dicussing this topic on Audiogon we are left with three "camps" ...
- Those that have observed improvements
- Those that have not observed improvements
- Those that choose to believe that quality, well designed cables make no difference

I have no issues with peole from any of those groups - I’m just passing on some of my observations and thoughts.

Take them or leave them - we all have our own beliefs AND a forum to share them on - thanks Audiogon :-)

Regards - Steve



@dmance...
  I think we just don’t know enough about electricity 
Interestingly - I believe you are not wrong.

I spoke with an "electronics technician" that repaired a friends solid state amp which "self destructed" due to the speaker cables he had used.

He had never heard of amps being driven to a state of oscilation due to the use of high capacitance speaker cables.

That's someone on the technical side of the industry not being aware of, what I consider, a basic design "consideration". 

So what other things are people in the industry not aware of ???

I shudder to think :-)

Regards - Steve