Brian,
I hope you are doing well. I think that you might have heard my stereo H2o when we were finally getting the Scintillas going at Karl's. If so, the amp has changed quite a bit since you heard it. The signature s-250 has an additional transformer and has turned the stereo version into a new beast. Also, the Scintillas really require 2 pairs of the Stereo signatures to sound their best. This is according to Henry Ho of H2O and my ears. The pair of Stereo signatures are very good on the Scintillas. When Karl finally gets my second pair of Scintillas to my Chicago house maybe you'll come over for a listen. Lastly, Muralman is not a shill but a very enthusiastic owner. Some of us feel protective of this brand because Henry Ho's only advertisement is through word of mouth and the few reviews that are out there. As we all know, everyone's tastes are different. I guess it helps make the world a more interesting place! All the best..Bob |
Dazzdax, the ICE module's sound can be attenuated by skilled amp builders to sound just about like anything. I have never heard two sounding the same.
You made a valid point. ICE amps always divulge a lot of disc info that all solid state amps I've heard mask, or roll over with non THD noise. A more detailed passage will not have that manufactured, "Body," folks are use to. |
What is your opinion regarding the NuForce vs ICEpower or UcD module? The ICEpower based Bel Canto Design Reference One amps have got a rave review by John Potis of 6moons recently. I'm wondering if the somewhat lean sound of an ICEpower amp is in fact the absence of distortion?
Chris |
Dealers have opinions too. If they have proven over time to be straightforward, then you can depend on them. Dealers probably hear a greater variety of components/systems, and their opinions can be worthwhile. Has Brian shown that his opinions are not honest? ISn't he hosting a shootout? |
Brian,
My personal apologies! I am way out of line in my post. I got carried away! Sometimes I make bad judgement and wrote distasteful words. My previous post is an example of this.
If I have a way of deleting my post after I realized my mistake, I will.
For those who had been following this thread, please ignore what I said as much as possible. I found no gratification in writing such somewhat inflamatory remarks. I should have known better.
Again, I apologize to Brian personally.
I will not participate in this thread anymore.
Sincerely |
I heard the Rowland amps in several rooms at CES / THE. Based on the posts here, I was very much looking forward to them, especially with the Rockport speakers, which I'd never heard before, but which also always receive raves. This room made some of the least musical sound at the show. While all the sounds were there, bass thru his, it was a very unmusical sound. There was another room nearby with the smae amps with some other speakers, I didn't stay long enough to find out the type. On the other hand, they sopunded ok in the Wadia room, with some little Dynaudio speakers. Of course there is more to an amplifier than the ICE module, and I would love to hear the H2Os. I think Muralman used to own Pass Aleph gear, so I think he should know good sound when he hears it. |
Come on Brian, you've read and heard enough from very experienced audiophiles that you know that dog won't hunt.
Amandarae, don't fall for Brian's usual response about components he doesn't sell. He is sooooo predictable.
Many who sell high-end products like Brian are threatened by "digital" amps. They challenge the high-end at reasonable prices (excepting the Rowlands)
ICEpower amps may not be the best amps available at any price, but many, many people who have heard them extoll their virtues as being "full of life, dynamic, with weight and immediacy."
But then again the vast majority of owners and audiophiles who rave about ICEpower amps aren't selling competing products that are getting killed by cheaper and newer technology. Yep! If you have an ulterior motive, why not protect it! I pity those who made judgement and does not know what they are getting into. Like one man said:" it is like going to church, many attended but few only understand" At least, now I added one establishment that I will not do business with ever! As well as avoid any further consideration of what meant to be "insigthful words" from this so called phrophet! Damn, I Hate Dealers Posing As An Enthusiast! Psssstt! There is no expert, just people with different level of ignorance!!! |
Brian, I am not debating what you heard. You are certainly entitled to your opinion as are the vast number of people who have heard the ICEpower amps and who have a dramatically different opinion than yours.
My point here is the transparent consistency with which you respond about components you don't sell. |
H2o is the real thing guys...I got them in my system for 1.5 month and they are getting better and better everyday....I am an ex pass x250 owner....and I've tried the Jeff Rowland 201 mono blocks......I like the x250 over the 201 but I like the h2o the best....
The H2o made my system sounded so realistic...If I close my eyes, I can hear a guy playing acoustic guitar in from of me...it sounded that real to me!!.. |
Question-
Where does JO4 technology (used in highly regarded Goldmund amps) fit into great amp design? Stellavox & Job amps are reasonably priced, using the same JOB4 technology.
I own the Stellavox PW-1 monos. They sound fantastic, weigh little, and are quick! I always wonder why these conversations do not include JOB4 technology?
Dazzdax- You owe it to yourself to check out JOB4 amps (Goldmund, Stellavox or Job amps are all owned & marketed by Goldmund)! |
Fiddler, I heard what I heard, and you don't have to agree. But your "sooooo predictable" jab "won't hunt" as you say. I didn't say what I heard, so as not to take prisoners. You want to know what the system was? Email me. If you think expressing an opinion about a technology per se is inappropriate, why? If the technology lived up to its billing of ultimate performance, I'd be all over it. Perhaps the point is about good price/performance, in which case a different response may be in order.
If you want to have a shootout, bring it on, I'm game. What is considered a reasonable price by one person may not be in another's, but that's another topic of endless debate. Meanwhile, let's agree to disagree.
Brian |
Essentialaudio, to answer your question, no. What's more, I am not the only guy who has posted wonderment about the H2O on the net. In fact, my praise pales in the light of other owner reviewer's prose.
You, or anyone, are invited to my place for a listen.
I can't vouch for the speakers, Analysis full range dipoles, H2O amps will be driving, but I am willing to stick out my head a little bit, and dub them, "Best of Show," at the next HE Show in NY. |
Muralman,
Come on Brian, you've read and heard enough from very experienced audiophiles that you know that dog won't hunt.
Amandarae, don't fall for Brian's usual response about components he doesn't sell. He is sooooo predictable.
Many who sell high-end products like Brian are threatened by "digital" amps. They challenge the high-end at reasonable prices (excepting the Rowlands).
ICEpower amps may not be the best amps available at any price, but many, many people who have heard them extoll their virtues as being "full of life, dynamic, with weight and immediacy."
But then again the vast majority of owners and audiophiles who rave about ICEpower amps aren't selling competing products that are getting killed by cheaper and newer technology. |
An alternate to the ICE module is the TriPath module, for which, unlike ICE, there is a good bit of technical info available on the web. Naturally, the TriPath folk say their approach is best, as do the ICE folk. IMHO it probably depends on what you wrap around the digital control module.
I use CarverPro ZR1600 amps which cost less than 1/4 of what you would pay for H2O or Spectron. The ZR1600 is darned good, and supposedly if you mod it, mostly by bypassing a bunch of input circuitry for pro sound applications, it rivals the best. |
Muralman, I anticipate hearing one soon and will reserve judgment till then, but my post stands. Meanwhile, it surely seems any time ICEpower and H2O are mentioned, you are quick to wax poetic about the latter. Do you have any interest in H2O other than as a customer?
Brian |
Essentialaudio, apparently you haven't heard the H2O, or your opinion might differ. My H2O amps outdo my former $16,000 solid state amps in life, dynamics, and immediacy. As to weight, that is a debatable attribute. I know a fellow who auditioned Rowland 201, 301, and 501 Rowland amps in his system before he decided on getting the H2O Signature monoblocks. |
The ICE, Hypex, Evo, EAR, Rowlands, etc. are not "digital" amps. Most of them are class D alright (because A, B, AB, and C are already accounted for), but D does not stand for digital. One amp is classified as class T (tripath).
Here, suit yourself!
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/messages/63926.html
With due respect, if the amp you heard is "cool" and "lean", then maybe it is something else because I have a different experienced. Or maybe, the power supply is not a good design.
I too have the ICE H2O. While it is not the "last" amp in terms of everything, it is nowhere near"cold" sounding in my application.
Just my opinions of course. |
Dazzdaz, which ICE amp have you listened to? I own H2O Signatures. They don't sound anything. They are the closest amp I have ever heard that bring my system closer to a real performance in my listening room. If you like dynamics, serious detail, and liquidity, the H2O offers all. |
Dazzdax, you described some of what others are hearing, although some report the $15k Rowland 300 series may not have these drawbacks. Other amps using the ICEpower modules have tended to lacked life, dynamics, weight and immediacy in my experience. Some expensive loudspeakers acknowledged to have excellent dynamics and extended bass didn't sound at all that way at CES last month. I have omitted the names purposely so as to not sound overly critical and hope I have not offended anyone. I'm not familiar with your amp but imagine an ICEpower based amp might be a step backwards.
Brian |
I haven't tried listening to them yet.
The reviews and user responses have been very good, as far as I've seen.
The only digital amp I've heard so far, was the Panasonic XR70, in a friend's system. Not an ICE module, but a digital amp. Sounded pretty good for a mass market item. I understand that the ICE module is supposed to be in another league altogether.
If Rowland and others are using them, then I'd expect that they sound quite good, or they wouldn't use them.
I'm just one of those neanderthals who is holding on to his single-ended triode amp and record player. |
