Khaki8, I know, I know, but I was wondering if there was something else I should try and address first.
Me: I guess that could be, I should probably switch them. Oh boy, that is going to be a project, those things are way heavy. |
Driver, I thought about that as well, but, in order to make myself totally wacko, I gave the remote to my wife. She also dialed in about the same balance, shook her head, kissed me on the cheek and said "I guess I will see you at what, about 2 am tonight??" At least she knows where I am at 2 am;) |
Thanks for the responses so far, it helps to know there are others like me out there!
Fefer77: I think the gain is ok, as I measured the outputs of the amps to be fairly equal. I already switched the amps around, no change.
Electric_monk (great moniker, btw): I can't do that, I have really short cables, the advantage of monoblocks;) I will probably lug, but I will have to enlist some help, so I can't do it right away.
Deano: I might end up doing that, but I was concerned about messing anything else, as I have the rest of it dailin in nicely. I think I will try it though, as I can always go back.
G_m_c: I agree, but the question is, where exactly should I begin the cut? Do I cut off the entire thing, or try to balance it by just cutting a little at a time? Should I use a stainless steel knife or would that give the system a "metalic" sound? Should I cryo the ear? Sorry, I digress, but at least I am smiling now. |
Oh, Feffer77, I missed part of your response. Behind my listening position is a semi round piece of furniture on the left side, and a solid core wood door on the right. I am pretty sure this might be the cause of the imbalance. I moved one of my tube traps in front of the furniture and it helped. |
Sean,
Thanks for your post. I think I am going to lug my speakers around, to get to the root of this. I was trying to eliminate the idea that it might be equipment related, and, frankly, I did not really think that it could be a speaker output imbalance. If it does turn out to be an speaker problem, it should be easy enought to fix, as they are only a year old.
I will report back. |
Thanks again for more great ideas, please keep them coming.
Sean: The speakers are stats, (actually hybrids), so I imagine either it works or does not? It is possible to easily switch only the panel section of the speakers, so I may try this. I suppose the internal step up transformers could have differing gain. My hunch is that the room is the culprit, but if one speaker is indeed louder, it may be that switching the locations could help, especially if the louder speaker is now in the location that is receiving the room re-enforcement.
Zargon: It is evident, mostly in that the vocals always seem to come from left side of the sound stage. If I close my eyes and "point" at the vocalist, I almost aways point at the same spot, about 20% over to the left.
Zoya: Thanks, I don't know if the pun was inentional or not, single "molt" vs. single "malt". molt: v.tr. To shed or cast off (a bodily covering) hehe
Colitas: Yep, the system passes the phase check with flying colors. Is there an audiophile brand of absinthe? One that comes in a non resonant bottle????
Rockvirgo: I will try that. A question about that procedure: should I place them as close to the center as possible and listen from my seating position? Or should I listen close, as this is just to determine if the amount of energy emitted from each speaker is equal?
Thanks |
Rock: LMAO thinking about the driveway thing, yeah, my speakers and a couple hundred pounds of tube amps in the driveway. They would lock me away.
I am going to run the test tonight, my wife is going out with the kids, so I can happily stress out;)
R |
Pmotz: I tried the plant thing, and it helps somewhat. It does not get rid of all the problem. The photo represents plant placement before the tweaking, they are now reversed.
The left wall is an exterior wall, and is insulated. The right wall is an interior wall, and is the same construction, but not insulated. This could very well be an issue. It is frame construction, but the exterior wall would have drywall, insulation, plywood, stryofoam and siding. The interior wall would have drywall, airspace, and drywall.
Thanks for you ideas, they may be helpful....."honey, we have to tear down some walls now" Actually, at this point, she would just laugh.
Best,
R |
Here is a link to 2 cad renderings of the room that I did when I designed the setup. I think it gives a better picture. The opening had a door, solid wood core, not shown. roomroom2thanks |
Newbie: I thought about that, but my wife hears it too, it could be that the problem is contagious? *grin*
Sean: Oh no! I was going to do the out of phase check this evening, you are saying it might not work? Maybe I will check with ML. Although, If I just switched the speakers, and the problem stayed the same, I guess we would know its the room, as we already eliminated the amplification chain.
As fas as sitting in the middle, yes, asn I hate to admit this, but I checked it with the laser, which ended up right on my nose. I know my fellow audiophiles will only partially think I am nuts...c'mon, fess up, someone out there has done this.
Dlwask: I am leaning towards your solution after verifying it is not a speaker problem. If it is a speaker problem, I will try to get it fixed. Thanks for the encouragement, your right, a little part of me will suffer if it is not perfect, but I can deal with that if it sounds good.
Fefer77: Yep, the door is ALWAYS closed. I actually replaced the original door with the solid wood door (and spent forever staining the darn thing) in order to get better sound.
I will report back after moving the speakers. |
I see my last post did not make it?
OK, here is the report:
Sean was pretty much correct, it was a combination of 2 things:
1) One speaker is slightly louder than the other
2) The room is re-enforceing the left side.
As soon as I switched the speakers, the image moved to the right side. However, it was much closer to the center, and only required half the correction to bring it back left to center.
I moved the right side back 1, then 1.5", and the system is now centered.
So, one speaker is slightly louder than the other, and the room has an asymetrical response. I will call the speaker manufacturer to discuss this, but I am not to worried at this point, as I have the system SOUNDING good. If there is an adjustment, fine, but if not, I think I can live with this.
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses, it never would have occured to me that one speaker would have a slightly different response.
Best Regards,
Ron |
I spoke with the speaker manufacturer today, and learned a few things.
1st, the panels are hand formed, and can vary in curvature. Accordingly, there is a special procedure used when setting the toe in which will compensate for the differences in curvature. The way I set the speakers up, using the lower cabinet, can result in a difference of toe in on the panel.
2nd, my speaker can vary as much as 1.5db from the other and still be considered "in spec" This was very surprising.
I will try the revised set up instructions and report back. More confusion. |
I implemented the toe in procedure recommended by ML, and found a Huge improvement. Balance is now dead
on, speakers are symetrical in the room.
As a side bonus, the new toe in has nicely opened up the soundstage, which now extends wider and deeper. |
Geoffkait,
Yes, I have spent a fair amount of time listening to that one. It is very helpful. |
Geoffkait, do you mean the panels on the sides of my listening room?
I had the system without them, it was pretty bad, as I had a tremendous slap echo.
Would there be a better way to deal with slap echo? I am curious, as I always am willing to try to tweak the room.
Thanks,
R |
No problem Tom, it has been a learning experience. You are correct, small differences in placement seem to make a HUGE difference.
I already have heard the sound of my room without the acuostic panels, simply awful, like the inside of a drum.
In my room, with my speakers, the ASC panels make for what I percive to be better sound. Obviously, this was not the case for Geoffkait, and his experience in his room with his equipment is perfectly valid. |
