Phono Stage - The great analog tragedy


In the world of analog playback, there is an interesting observation. There has been tremendous innovation in the field of 
Turntable - Direct, Idler, Belt
Cartridge - MM, MC, MI
Tonearm - Gimbal, Unipivot, Linear Tracking

For all of the above designs we find some of the best reference components designed in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Most of the modern products are inspired from these extraordinary products of the past. But when it comes to phono stage, there is hardly any "reference component" from that era. They just standardized RIAA curve for sanity and left it. Manufacturers made large preamps and amps and allocated a puny 5% space for a small phono circuit even in their reference models, like a necessary evil. They didn’t bother about making it better. 

The result? It came down to the modern designers post 2000 after vinyl resurgence to come up with serious phono stages for high end systems. Unfortunately they don’t have any past reference grade designs to copy or get inspired from. Effectively, just like DACs, reference phono stages is also an evolving concept, and we don’t have too many choices when we want a really good one which is high-res and natural sounding. Very few in the world have figured out a proper high end design so far. And most of the decent ones have been designed in the past couple of decades. The best of the breed are probably yet to come.  

It is a tragedy that our legendary audio engineers from the golden era didn’t focus on the most sensitive and impactful component, "the phono stage"

pani

Is this a "what is the best phono stage" thread or is it a debate on very vintage vs less vintage (because a 25 year old phono stage design does not fit the conventional notion of "new", not that there is anything wrong with that) vs really new?

The following is from other Forums where a 1990's Design for a Phonostage is under discussion. Design For and a Few Specific Components, will be suggestions still remaining 30 years on as being the attractive options for a Circuit in the wider seen discussions had on a Topology for a Phonostage.

The Circuit seen in the Image is the First Phonostage I had produced as a commission build, it was tweaked by the EE as a circuit, also being populated with BlackGates and I'm confident a AD797 was the OP Amp for MC, the MM Ip Amp selected I can't recall. This Phon' changed my interest in listening to audio and using an Analogue Source for ever, it is the one thing that encouraged me to experience so many Phon's through out the years, the initial experiences of it in use had a profound impact on how I was to assess sound being produced.

The Phon' is still owned today and is usually let go for a long term loan, it usually remains a loan item until the user buys in the Phon' that surpasses it, even then the returned reports on the recognised foibles are a few points shared only. Audio Notes Andy Grove must have intended on producing something quite valuable for the wider community when this Schematic was released for others to build.  

The Phonostage is assembled by the same individual and now friend, who has Commission Built other Amplification for me over the Past 30 Years. During the same period of producing this Phon' for me, the EE had built their own Valve Design Phonostages for customers ordering a commission build.

One Valve Phon' Model was to end up being compared to Phonostages in Dealerships in the London area in the 90's, was able to cause quite a stir. As an end sound being assessed, the Phon's Owner was making it known there was not a demo' where it was not recognised by those who heard it for being the better Phonostage in use.     

____________________________________________________________

 During my explorations, I ventured into the realm of designing and building phono stages. It's a meticulous process, much like a watchmaker delicately assembling the gears of a timepiece. My reference, which I fondly call the "Oceanic Phono," is a testament to this journey. It's an interstage transformer coupled, valve rectified, 2-stage phono preamp, employing the venerable C3g tubes. And here's the twist – there are no capacitors in the signal path, except for those tiny silver mica ones in the RIAA RC filter. This approach, much like a painter using a limited palette to create a masterpiece, has yielded a sound that's velvety smooth, detailed, and ultra-low noise. With about 60dB of amplification, it's perfect for an MM cartridge, or, in my case, a delightful pairing with MC cartridges and exquisite silver-wound step-up transformers.

But, as in any journey, curiosity beckons me to new horizons. My gaze now turns to LCR phono stages, particularly a circuit published by the masterful Nobu Shishido in the mid-1990s in Sound Practices DIY magazine. Shishido's choices are intriguing, almost like a chef using an unexpected ingredient. He opted for two overly large 47uF capacitors in the signal path for each channel. It's an unorthodox move, considering the usual capacitor choices in such applications, limiting the qualities one can explore. Shishido used the now-unobtainable BlackGates, which, despite their exotic allure, are still electrolytics. They face stiff competition from MKPs and PiOs in the capacitor world.

But let's not forget, Nobu Shishido is no fool. His 300b interstage coupled "Yamamoto" amplifier is the stuff of legends, a creation that sings melodies of its own. His decision to walk this path must have been driven by a deep intention, much like a novelist choosing a peculiar narrative style to tell a compelling story.

So here we are, contemplating the Nobu Shishido LCR phono, juxtaposed against my Oceanic phono. It's like comparing two distinguished poets, each with their unique voice and style, yet both enchanting in their way. The journey continues, and with each step, I delve deeper into the heart of music, uncovering its secrets, one component at a time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlJxRYpv8UU&t=48s

____________________________________________________________

 

I'm a little confused. Back in the early 60s, 70s and up to the mid 80s, the primary source of music was Phono or Cassette tape, except for the relatively few who had R2R. Most Pre-amps of good quality, did a good job with MM and high output MC cartridges.

Back in the early - midI 80s I had, and still have the same, Audible Illusions, Modulus II, pre-amp. My primary source of music was LP albums, a good many - MF Original Masters. My other source was cassette tapes through a Nak. ZX-9 deck. My PSE, Studio IV, amp, paired with my Audible Illusions pre. worked great for me. A dedicated $10,000 phono stage wasn't even a thing back then.

Back in the early 60s, 70s and up to the mid 80s, the primary source of music was Phono or Cassette tape

A dedicated $10,000 phono stage wasn't even a thing back then.

No. This is a myopic view of the world.

Example - Final Audio released a diamond cantilevered low output moving coil in 1974 along with dedicated phono stages shortly thereafter. the stylus tip and cantilever were cut from a 1 carat natural diamond.

There were plenty of others.

You need to look a bit further than Sears, Roebuck & Co or Wal Greens for your audio history.