2. amps-preamps
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Phono preamp question

I have a jolida jd9 modded by mitch singerman that I run in mm mode with a grado reference 1 into an odyssey cyclops driving thiel 1.5's. My question has to do with upgrading the jolida. The odyssey is an amp with one input and a volume attenuator. The jolida has two outputs, lo and hi. I have to use the hi outs(1.8 volt output) as the 200mv of the low out is just plain enemic. The gain in mm is bit of a question Ive read 55db as well as 70db. this is the only stage i've had and briefly tried out a primare r32 that was nice sounding but flat(again with odyssey amp) I guess due to low gain (in the low 40's). I have no idea what the output voltage was. I'd like to try another stage but I find it hard to find any information on output voltages on any phono preamps. I've seen the ear834 has 1v though I'm not sure the gain in that unit would be enough. Anyone have any experience running into this situation that I hope Ive described well enough to understand even though I'm not sure exactly whats going on myself. As I think I understand it I'm running into this issue because of the passive/line stage input of my amp with most stages being designed to run into an active preamp. My plan in the beginning was to have a short signal path I just didn't realize how lucky I was with my choice of the Jolida being super high gain. Didn't realize my options would be so limited to drive my Odyssey- at least it appears that way. If anyone can help me sort this out or suggest a phono preamp I would much obliged. I have a feeling my amp is just not suitable to running a vinyl only system at least in the price range I find myself in 1-2k. I really like the Jolida I'm just curious about more expensive stages and what they can do and I don't have any one area I'm looking to improve on. thanks a lot for any help at all.
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fourwnds's avatar
fourwnds OP
277 posts
 
Just a follow up for someones benefit hopefully. I still don't know what directions to go. The situation is still unclear but what is clear I need to start trying stuff basically. What I wanted to report on is that I made some power cord changes to my amp and phono pre. This has made making do with what I have really enjoyable. It's prompted me to start moving the speakers around to accomodate the change in sound. Fun stuff and very cost efficient. I didn't put a lot of stock in cables and still have my doubts as to the cost of some but I do have an open mind now. I moved from the Shunyata Venom 3's to AudioArt Power Classic 1's. One with the gold connectors and the other rhodium. The overall presentation has spread out. it was like the image was bottled up previously and now its more open. Less tight now. Thanks Rob Fritz and Audiogon members for all the info sharing etc.
fourwnds's avatar
fourwnds OP
277 posts
 
sorry for the delayed reponse back and thank you to guys who chimed in! Everyone has given me something to chew on.

steve-the cart is a Grado Reference Reference, by the way I'm looking into the Liberty(nice write up on that) and have an email out to peter regarding gain. I want to know if I can get mc levels of db from the mm mode someway. Or can I just listen in mc mode with the Grado utilizing the gain? I need about 55db and I only have to turn my amp up to 12.

Dill- the Jolida has plenty of gain and options I'm pretty happy with it and it's not the problem. thanks for heads up regarding gain with all voltage gain dips down, etc.

Carey-I plugged in a cheap cd player and the volume was near where I like to listen normally using the hiout(1.8v-the average for most sources, preamps, I think )and the mm dip switch. I'll look into the brands you mentioned. I wish I knew my amps sensitivity.

Yogi-the Grado is rated at 4.5mv and it runs the jolida fine and there is good synergy with the amp (and speakers I feel) problems arise when I've run a different phono stage with usual 40db or so of usual gain. I gotta peg the volume and its still not happening.

IslandD-it makes me wonder if your amp at the time you were using a passive had a lower input sensitivity than mine(odyssey cyclops) and thats why everything worked good for you.

Thanks again for any help or comments to help sort this out who knew it would be this complicated. Its okay though I like where I'm at now and its all an education
carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
If you are using a passive preamp you will need lots of gain from your phono, also the sensitivity of your amp will also play a big role here.. do you have any trouble with line level sources driving you amps or do you have to turn it up quite a bit? If you compare your amps sensitive to the that of other main stream amps to see what the difference is .. Your amp may need more voltage from the preamp to drive it than you get with passive.. Trying to setup a great system with a passive pre is difficult especially with phono. Ive tried it a few times but always returned to active preamp. Savant Audio swore by the passive First Sound preamps and supposedly had good success with the Klyne phono.
dill
2,525 posts
 
Have you set the dip switches, behind the chrome plate on the rear of the JD9, for a higher output?
yogiboy's avatar
yogiboy
5,672 posts
 
With a phono preamp you will need to know the input sensitivity. As long as your cartridge output is higher than the input of your phono it should be able to drive any amp. Some of the Grado's have an output of .5 mv's which would be way to low to drive most phono preamps. What is the output of your Grado? The Statement Ref 1 is .5 mv's and the Ref 1 is 4 mv's.
stevecham
3,340 posts
 
What's the cartridge?
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islandmandan
1,260 posts
 
I'm not an expert by any means, but I used a passive line stage (a trannie-based Sonic Euphoria), for many years, and had no issues with not having enough gain.

During that time, I used a Sim Audio Moon LP 5.3 w/ PSX 5.3 outboard power supply, that was a full-featured phono stage with great sound and versatility, and plenty of gain.

I ventured into tubes, and now use a Modwright SWP 9.0 Signature phono stage. It has shown itself to be a very good phono preamp, especially after the power supply was upgraded with one from Modwright.

I don't think your passive line stage is what's holding you back, you most likely need a phono stage with higher gain. You should be able to find a suitable unit in your price range. Don't be afraid to try a few different units, that's part of the process of finding what works best for you.

Best of luck,
Dan
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