Phono Pre Impedance Matching- Herron VTPH -2A or Manley Chinook

16k is a tough load for a lot of tube gear. Don’t go by just the single listed impedance number (eg 91 ohms for the Manley). This can vary by frequency, usually drastically rising for low frequencies due to output caps. As Keith mentioned, often you’re most worried about performance in the bass frequencies, where a lowering ratio of input to output impedances can result in very audible roll-off. Even what looks look like a minor roll-off on paper can have audible effects. I’d at least ask Manley what they think before assuming the Chinook will be performing optimally into 16k. 

I love tube phono stages, but I’m afraid that your tough 16k load will be at best a mild compromise for many of the best units. It could possibly help on some units to replace the output caps with larger ones.

I currently own Rogue Ares Magnum, Herron VTPH-2A, and a VAC Renaissance phono stages. All great performers at their various price points (the VAC is very spendy but sings like magic). All of those companies are run by great guys that back their products and are happy to help out!

See the post dated 7-30-2018 at the end of this thread, by member "600ohms," who is Keith Herron himself. As you’ll see, bass rolloff would not be an issue with a 16K load, although a **slight** compromise in dynamics is possible. But my belief is that Keith is extremely conservative in making such statements, and consequently when he says that "lowest distortion and best performance occurs with output loading at or above 20k Ohms" it is likely that any such compromise with 16K would be imperceptible in most applications.

As I recall Keith revised his website page on the VTPH-2a to reflect the statements he provided in that post at around the same time the post was made. Although the manual still suggests 50K or more as being optimal, that statement apparently having been carried over from manuals for earlier iterations of the phono stage, possibly going back to the VTPH-1.

Also, in a post dated 7-17-2018 in this thread Keith is quoted as stating as follows in an email to a member:

The output capacitors of the VTPH-2 and VTPH-2A are approximately 7 uF (polypropylene) and the low frequency response is RIAA flat down to 10 Hz (within 0.1dB) into a 10k Ohm output load.

7 uF (microFarads) is more capacitance than is provided by the output coupling capacitors of many other tube designs, and at 20 Hz and with a 16K load is a large enough value to be consistent with the 10x rule of thumb minimum guideline for line-level impedance matching, in combination with the 400 and 500 ohm nominal output impedances of the two versions of the phono stage that are presumably specified based on a mid-range frequency.

So I think you would be fine pairing the VTPH-2a with your integrated amp.

Regards,
-- Al

(VTPH-2 owner, used in conjunction with an Audio Technica AT-ART9 cartridge and a 50K output load).

@Almarg-

As I recall Keith revised his website page on the VTPH-2a to reflect the statements he provided in that post at around the same time the post was made. Although the manual still suggests 50K or more as being optimal, that statement apparently having been carried over from manuals for earlier iterations of the phono stage, possibly going back to the VTPH-1.

Thank you for clarifying that! I'll admit that the earlier paragraph on the website about a 50K minimum spooked me a little bit.  As usual, it's the depth of knowledge found on this forum that adds so much enjoyment to this hobby.

I'm with almarg. When Keith says something like "there might be some compromise" keep in mind his incredibly conservative nature. Of course I'm so impressed with my 2A its hard not to recommend it to everyone. 

You mentioned the other being readily available used. There's probably a reason. You get a Herron, you hang onto it.

And for anyone needing only enough gain for a high output cartridge, Keith says most of the improvement in the VTPH-2 over the VTPH-1 was in the moving coil section of the -2. He sometimes has a traded-in VTPH-1mm available, which is how I got mine. Don't hold your breath waiting for one to become available!

krabbypantz
Impedance Matching- Herron VTPH

Hi, no impedance matching issues I talk to Herron to make sure.
One of my customers runs his Herron with my Lightspeed Attenuator passive, and loves it, here is his report on it.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/lightspeed-attenuator-best-preamp-ever/post?postid=1623297#16...

Cheers George