I think some of us are missing the point in terms of a Wavelength DAC, even some of the owners. The convenience FACTOR is nothing more than a sideshow when speaking about these DACs, and we should not lose sight of the fact that the sound quality is comparable if not better than some of the perceived "best" CDPs on the market today. Lets not lose sight of this and the fact that convenience should be considered a secondary benefit ( a darn good one) of a PC-based system after you consider the sound quality, which Wavelength DACs have in spades. I consider myself a true audiophile, and this is what we look for first and foremost. And for some, our dreams have been answered, because now we have the best of both worlds, audiophile sound from a PC-based rig.
And if you waiting for a Wavelength product to come down in price, don't hold your breath. The laws of supply and demand some may hope work in their favor do not typically apply to items that are this unique and that are hand made to order. For that, wait for a solid state based, mass produced DAC that is a compromise in sound. |
Speaking of tried and true audiophile grade DACs, if you have a DAC that you already like, IMO the Empirical Audio Turbo-2 or PaceCar (or both) interface is the way to go. Yes, they're pricey for something that just converts USB to another digital format, but the internal clock makes it pricey. And you don't have to spend money on a DAC.
Shameless promoting by a happy Turbo-2 owner. |
Oh, I couldn't agree more. I've had some well-regarded CD players and DAC combos, Sony SCD-1, Accuphase DP-85, EMM Labs CDSD and DAC6e combo and an Esoteric X-01 Limited. To my ears, the Wavelength Crimson is superior in terms of tonality, imaging, etc. The only one that has it beat in any category was the Esoteric in terms of bass weight. I'm working on my system synergy, and soon even that will be surpassed. Throw in the convenience of computer -based playback, and I still submit, "game over."
David
David |
Vinyl sounds great, but it is over. The new music is not being recorded on vinyl.
db |
Dave, Honestly, you sound like a marketing rep. Are you (have you been, or are you hoping or planning) in "any" way involved with the Wavelength company, Axiss Distribution or any affiliate of theirs, or are you close friends or a business affiliate with any of the people involved?, by any chance. |
Psacanli-"Wavelength company" is one man, Gordon Rankin. He doesn't have marketing reps, or salesman, and quite honestly doesn't seem interested at all in being anything remotely close to "mainstream".
I too defend and promote Wavelength, consider me a Marketing Rep. But mostly I am a promoter because it is incredible stuff, and Gordon is a genius and a friend to all those who buy from him. |
You can count me in with the group that is very loyal to Wavelength Audio and Gordon Rankin.
The reason is quite simple: his components are fun to listen to. I really look forward to my next listening session with my iMac and GordonÂ’s Crimson Silver USB DAC.
Gordon is a genius in SET design. He has worked in the computer industry and is able to write his own software for his products.
After all of the arguments and reasons why this computer approach is just a fad, the fact is, Gordon's stuff just sounds like real music. And that, my friends, is what this hobby is all about for me. |
Hi Psacanli,
"Dave, Honestly, you sound like a marketing rep"
That was kind of an annoying post. Sounds like you are questioning my integrity. I happen to be an orthopedic surgeon who likes audio. I do really like the Wavelength Audio approach, and for now, am very happy. As always, that can change :).
David |
My primary front end is a Galibier TT.
Because I found myself listening mostly to vinyl, I thought that selling my Wadia 861 was a wise decision especially since PC Audio was in its neophyte stage, leaving "standard" digital payback hardware with good trade-in value.
I purchased a Wavelength Brick Silver, and a MacBook for essentially the re-sale value of my Wadia.
I didn't suffer sonically. I turned a transport and DAC into a portable computer and DAC. The former I can use for functions other than audio. What's not to like?
The convenience is another plus, albeit, secondary. But having instant access to my complete audio collection has been a blast! Much more fun than I could have ever imagined.
I suggest auditioning a good USB DAC system comparing it to the stand alones, and see what you think. Digital only folks may prefer this setup. But for vinyl + digital folks like me, it's a hard combination to beat, especially if one is in need of a laptop -- talk about multitasking.
BTW, I second all the positive comments regarding Wavelength and Gordon. I've never met him, only had discussions via e-mail, but he's been very helpful and his digital and other electronics -- especially SET's -- are superb. |
Hi Dave, I'm was not questioning your integrity, I was just asking a simple and I felt not unreasonable question considering the level of enthusiasm you've exhibited (and some of the well known shenanigans in the audio business). I fail to see the connection with your being a surgeon (which is a calling I have particularly high regard for having required 4 surgeries of by OS's) but perhaps you were simply indicating that you're not a lawyer(just joking for all our erstwhile, audiophile lawyers-I'm presently consulting a lawyer-and hoping his Dad was part pit-bull part tiger). I respectfully advise no insult intended. In fact I believe I've purchased some used gear from you in the past. Regarding that last comment "for now, am very happy.As always that can change:)." I hope you remain happy and an interesting poster to this forum. Your experience with state of the art products is valuable. Cheers. Pete |
It seems the Macbook gets a lot of mention. I use an older business warhorse IBM laptop with Windows Media Player 11 and have never listened to anything beyong a Grammaphone or BBC Music mag sample. It could be interesting to try playing through the system-does it need a DAC? |
Bigamp you have a good point. Instead of knocking in this DIGITAL forum the posts in this thread are more appropriate for the PC forum. |
Digital to Analog conversion is perfectly appropriate for this forum as well. |
"But" the heading of this thread starts "PC-audio". |
Dumb question, but, hypothetically, which would be better:
(1) USB out of my Mac --> USB input on Benchmark DAC1 USB, or
(2) USB out of my Mac --> Empirical Audio device that converts USB to SPDIF --> coax digital input on DAC1?
Or am I missing something? |
Revising previous post with a third option...
Dumb question, but, hypothetically, which would be better:
(1) USB out of my Mac --> USB input on Benchmark DAC1 USB, or
(2) USB out of my Mac --> Empirical Audio device that converts USB to SPDIF --> coax digital input on DAC1, or
(3) Toslink out of my Mac --> Toslink input on Benchmark DAC1 (or this can be done via Airport Express)?
#3 is the only option I can do currently.
Or am I missing something? |
Drubin asks:
which would be better:
(1) USB out of my Mac --> USB input on Benchmark DAC1 USB, or
(2) USB out of my Mac --> Empirical Audio device that converts USB to SPDIF --> coax digital input on DAC1?
They both use virtually the same USB interface and firmware. #2 would have lower jitter due to the Superclock4 in the Off-Ramp I2S. There is a slight advantage of the DAC-1 USB because of the upgraded op-amps on the outputs. More mods are recommended to improve the high-frequency smoothness and overall dynamics of either.
#2 also allows optimum use of the Pace-Car reclocker with a wide range of sources, including SB3, Sonos, Olive and AiRport Express. These combos are actually better than the USB interface, lower jitter.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Manufacturer |
#3 is a non-starter, not even close IMO.
Steve N. |
Now there's a newsflash, Steve N. thinks #2 is better.
Drubin-
Spend $30. on a Monster Cable ICable and try your Mac's optical output into your DAC-1. Follow Benchmark's Mac set up instructions and enjoy. |
Thanks to both of you. I have the non-USB version of the DAC1 at the moment and have ordered the cable you mention, Kana. AT the Benchmark Web site, I see Mac setup instructions for the USB implementation, but not for the toslink. Can you provide a pointer? |
Kana813 - I didn't say it was better, just different. The DAC-gives you more options and lower jitter. The DAC-1 USB gives you the better output op-amps. Some may like one better than the other.... I prefer both modded, not stock.
Steve N. |
I tried this once before and it looks like the post feel victim to the mysterious Audiogon-moderator-random-post-delete.
I was musing about using a Crimson as a DAC/linestage combo. IOW, with the optional VC and no preamp.
My experience has led me to regard an active preamp as essential for the best sound - best body, especially (I've found you can get great dynamic without an active pre despite what some say).
However, this little beast, with its big power supply and transformer-coupled DHT output stage is basically a single-input tube pre along with the DAC - no?
So, is anybody doing that? Anybody that used to be sold on (active) preamps as necessary? |
I'm using the Crimson with volume direct to amps. It sounds excellent. Gordon will tell you -at least he told me- that the built in volume control will sound better as it eliminates the linestage from the signal path. I didn't do any major comparing to confirm, but I am impressed with the sound. The volume control is implemented prior to the tube stage...for what it's worth. Gordon will have a Crimson with volume control @ CES if you can go. |
To me, a transport (CDSD) sounded better than a hard drive using the same DAC (DCC2)... and oddly enough, I feel it's more convenient to just pop a CD in the transport vs. using a computer. Different strokes I guess. |
At least to me the what sounds better and the whole discussion re the wavelength dac is a bit misplaced. First things first, I have two systems (in different rooms of course) one which CD/SACD based (Meitner) another with a music server...the wonderful Sooloos.
1. The real point of music servers, PC Audio etc is what Alphi and some others alluded to...the convenience. But not as Dennis the menace indicated in popping in a CD vs going thru menu but the access to all of one's music in a very organized, easy to find manner. I have about 3000 CDs. Just relying on The Meintner system....there is tendancy for me to even forget what I have. Using the Sooloos, I am re-discovering a lot of music, and falling in love all over again, and in the end that;s what its all about.
2. Re wavelength Dac etc....well then its matter how do we improve music server/PC based audio aound quality? The obvious answer is an external DAC of which Wavelength is but only one option. For PC based yes u need a USB connection or a USB to XXX conveter like what is provided by Haggerman (if I recall correctly) but some music servers also have other output options. The Sooloos for example has RCA unbalanced which expands the options.
3. Sooloos which is indeed expensive, it has capacity in terabytes which I needed, and I just love the interface.
4. Death of CDs: Hardly. Even if hard disk data based audio is the way to go, the orginal content has to come from somewhere. Downloads are too far and between, especially in terms lossless quality. So I will continue to buy CDs, ripp them into Sooloos.
5. Re hard disk vs CD sound comparisons....I have both but the room, rest of system are very different, with CD/SACD system much more of higher quality (rest of system that is). Frequently I find discovering music via Soooloos the investigating further in the Meitner based system. But the real point I think is if you have great external DAC and invest in the rest of the system, whatever sound quality shortcomings it may or may not have vs a hard disk based system will be far far outweighed by the interface, functionality etc of the latter, especially if you have fairly large music library.
6. To me the shift from CD to digital storage based systems is far greater leap in functionality, mobility, user interface ...everything than the previous shift from LP to CD. After all the latter improvement in convenience was something more along the lines of physical storage size, maintenance etc.... |
Apologies for all the typos....and finally to add one more thing....I suspect what you will have as a result of all the above is the revival of external DACs with mulitple input options. Alphi....your challenge has been set. |
It's aplhifi,see:
http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=688 |
Hey David, seems like you had a leg up on us!
Just read the fabulous news about Reference Recordings realeasing "master quality sound" via computer discs. It looks like we are into a new era of exciting sound like none of us have experienced before. I just hope the "reproducing players/computers can translate the dynamic toe tapping heart warming sound that's on the discs-and that we don't have to go thru nearly 20 years of "bs" upgrades. If it doesn't 'blow my socks off' I'm going to be spending a lot more time with my Goldmund Studio.(Personally I'd be 'de-lighted' to go back to the sound I got fromm my reel to reel playing those good old pre recorded tapes. Now those filled my room(whole house)with music! Anyone else fondly remember those "big boys"? |
