Nilthepill,
I would say around a month... So in that case maybe it just doesnt suit your set up, or it is just showing up something you need to tackle in your system?
I must admit, when I first had some 20 amp lines put in I had some large ARC tube monos driving a pair of MG 3.6r with twin subs. It did make them sound very thick and fat although better air and dynamics.
In the end I put the amps on another circuit as it was a little too overwhelming down below ultimately.
I have not looked through the archives, but it is an interesting subject as to how the sound changes and effects the balance tilt between bass and treble. |
Chadeffect, i had two heaters going 24/7 ( well mostly) for more than a month on these two lines. how much longer you think? Thx |
Dont forget to let all those changes settle. It took quite a long time to for my sockets to settle and sound "natural". The Oyaide took weeks then became awesome. I wouldnt go back to normal ones thats for sure.
Nilthepill I would hang in there. 20 amp lines do change the bass, but it settles. |
well after some experimenting it seems the amp direct to the r-1 is the ticket. for what ever reason, the cord and conditioner do not work well with it and amazing that the outlet alone seems more natural. i am also getting almost inaudible hiss from the tweeter which was quite audible before, similar to what an above poster reported. this is getting interesting. that is a $2500 pc + $700 conditioner. i am losing some of the focus but it is sounding more open. i am impressed. i need to spend some time with it and do some more a/b but promising. |
Richard,
Here's one, of many 8^), of the strange things about this hobby. I find the R1 anything but muddy, in fact I'd recommend it to someone who felt their system needed a bit of clarity.
I'm in no way questioning your experience with the R1. There's so many variables involved, including the PCs and terminations. |
more about the r-1...the issues i described (overpowering bass, muddiness) are occurring at higher volumes...up in the 85-95db range (yes i know thats really loud). at low levels it is really very pleasant and the depth and clarity are real pluses. maybe wishing for a touch more sparkle. my amp seems to be running hotter too for some reason. maybe i am checking it more and it was hot before but man is it warm.
man we are strange. |
i am on this ride too. i just put in an oyaide r-1 which feeds an mit zstabalizer hg3 running my amp and sub. i dunno about it. so far, only a couple of days, i certainly have much less noise but i think it may be a bit muddy and overpowering. they were used so i do not think burn in should be too much of a concern. there are many good things going on...clarity, depth, cleaner lines around vocals/instruments less grunge. just that bass is sooo heavy. not sure yet....
i have another to install which will feed my jaco that the rest of my lowlevel stuff is on but i may wait and see. i also have an extra just cuz i overbought if anybody needs one! |
Blindjim, don't let my experience discourage you in your quest for experimentation. If it helps, I should add that I really think Oyaide duplexes were not the culprit but it very well could be the new 20 amp lines changed the tonal balance more rather significantly in upper mids than the duplexes . Prior to new lines installation i had the duplexes on 15 amp regular lines and the sound was equal to or better than the reg duplexes. |
Chad effect said: ..." But there is that audiophile illness whispering in my ear "imagine how good it will sound if..."
LOL! So true.
My system was perfect (to my taste)and I thought "imagine how good it will sound if" I have 20 amp dedicated lines install and to top it off install the Oyaide stuff (I had bought Oyaide 2x 2 outlets, fancy cover plate and the whole deal) and sound will become live live. To my dismay it started out sounding real thin and hashy ( for a good reason- not broken in) and after posting here I decided to have heaters 24/7 to break thoes two lines and outlets for a month plus. Yes sound did change from dissatisfactory to oh-that-is-not-so-bad i probably can live with this kind, but to tell you the truth all the magic was gone ( as compared to my 15 amp regular outlets) I switched back to my old set up.
I am now using the dedicated lines for my TV and cabinet lights ;-)
This thread makes me think: Could it be better with porter or some other outlets? |
The flip side of "If it ain't broke don't fix it" is, "If it ain't broke, screw around with it and you might get lucky enough to make it better"... on which the audio industry and many therapists rely.
We'll see... or hear... at some point.
|
Hi Blindjim,
I suppose I could take the PSA apart and swap the sockets over. I think the PSA sockets are square while the Oyaide ones are rounded. So there would be a gap where the socket and the casing meet. Probably ok but not great.
I too am a believer in "if it aint broke..." But there is that audiophile illness whispering in my ear "imagine how good it will sound if..."
I suspect you have a similar illness too as we are discussing which electrical sockets sounds best! There must be many reading this wondering if we are one sandwich short of a picnic or have way too much time on our hands. |
if there's one way to dampen or isolate, there's another. Which is superior seems the issue.
$200 for a cover plate allows for a whole lot of trial and error attempts to surpass the carbon fiber ones.
Why can't you open up the PSA unit and install other outlets? too tight? outlets are the wrong size?
Seems a simple enough task provided the outlets match in depth and area dims.. and of course if not, keeping the origs and later on putting them. back in seems a valid enough idea.
Personally I don't feel it a big deal or some great wrong will transpire if a switch out is made, but there is always that, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" notion.
|
Hi Blindjim,
umm... cry first then straight into mad laughter as you reach for your wallet. The face plate does seem excessively expensive.
I do not use one. I have not tried one either. It probably works. Oyaides thing is all about damping and good tight connections with the various choices of metal. They are all subtle effects, but there. The further down the line you are with your system the more important they become.
I do have 3 different separate sockets which are the Oyaide XXX and 2x GX. To put face plates on too would start to get daft. But maybe I will save up!
BTW they take a long time to burn in. The XXX took ages. The sound of these sockets changes over a few weeks. They become more invisible and natural sonically as time passes, but the noise floor remains super quiet. Worth it for that alone, apart from the slight "tonal" change.
I wish I could change the sockets on my PS audio regenerator to Oyaide. It seems sensitive to power cords so the sockets would do something I am sure. |
Chadeffect
Thanks.. that's excellent info.
Did you go whole hog and add the $200 face plate on the Oy Gold?
$200 cover plates simply kill me. i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Donjr
Great! Glad to hear things have stepped up a notch or three for you there.
I designed in some features in my latest house... Everything was brand new from the ground up... it seems to me things did not get right sounding for a pretty good while... A year? perhaps two actually. That incidental is also why I grazed into the power cond fields.
At 4 years it was better for sure. other items in the home don't affect things as readily now, like printer, chargers, phones, wall worts.. etc.
Congrats.
|
Sorry to bud in on your thread Blindjim. I'm about 3 hours into burning in the new dedicated circuit with the Porter Port. I can mention one thing that I noticed right off the bat. The slight hiss I used to be able to hear through the speakers at idle from about 18 inches was reduced to only being able to hear it from about 6 inches. This isn't something I'm imagining, it's more than 50% quieter and more similar to my old solid state amp as far as what's coming out of the speakers when no music is playing. It was never noticeable unless I was up close to the speaker, but now I have to practically rest my ear on the grill to hear it.
I think I'm going to take Blindjims advice and just let the comparison of the new and old go by the way side. Out with the old, in with the new. If I don't notice anything more than I already have, I'm still glad I did it knowing that my wife was curling her hair on the same circuit. |
I found the gold Oyaide and the gold furutech to be the best outlets I tried. They sound similar to their equivalent plug. Both plug and socket add to each other and amplify the character.
I have a very clean system and was looking for a little warmth. The Oyaide was just the ticket. It has a slightly fatter and richer presentation than the Furutech.
The Furutech also has a slight artificial sparkle in the treble. The Oyaide seemed more natural in my set up. |
Cooking your new wire for a dedicated circuit as well as your outlets will save a great deal of time to compare what outlet works best where with what. |
PS.... rather .... exchange the old plug AFTER all is run in down the road when you've nothing better to do, and see for yourself then. |
Donjr
A new ded ckt will take some time to run in too... so you're right with that bit.
Ded ckts are a step up but not a tremendous one. Noticeable seems to fit here best.
I'd simply join it all in at once and let it ride as both the plug and line needs run in time and there's really no sense in prolonging things... unless of course your own curiosity is great in determining the degree of change for each area.
|
I'm putting in a Porter Port this week. I'll let you know how it goes. It's going to be tough for me to decipher what's the Porter and what's a result of the new dedicated circuit. I might have to begin with the old $4 plug and then replace it with the Porter Port to hear what the differences are. |
Mooglie
Thanks. That's good stuff on the copper aspect.
I'm currently onto this idea:
2 Porters
Either 2 Teslaplex or 1 each tesla & Oy R1.
I should get a fair cross section that way.
I am a mite hard pressed to believe an outlet can/will attenuate some part of the bandwidth though... and think maybe some part is not seen quite so prominent as perhaps the rest of it might be.
has anyone found any of these after market outlets a great choice for video? Like for a Front Projector?
|
The Hubbell 5362 is a nice sounding outlet for not much money. Doesn't roll off the highs or "soften" the presentation like gold platings can do. Doesn't spotlight the highs like silver. Fatter bass and a little more "laid back" than rhodium.
In general, I've found that I tend to prefer un-plated high copper plugs and outlets in most places, though rhodium is ok in some spots. High copper, IMHO, is a very "honest" presentation.
I'd suggest starting with a high copper outlet (Hubbell, Porter, Jenna Labs, etc) and see how you like the presentation. Then, if you find something is missing, you can play around with various platings. |
Chuck
Thanks much. That's also quite understandable if those are the guidelines for your systems development.
I find now and then however that some slight or minor alteration or enhancement/attenuation of a thing, via cabling or isolating, or tube rolling, to augment it's performance or simply to bring it into my own preffs range to a greater capacity by some minor tweaking is more desireable to me than to get back on the audio treadmill and seek out another set of speakers, amps, source, etc.
Also there is the component of increase. Overall increase or merely a partial one can be obliged in the same manner as I’ve just described. Perhaps one can call it allowing a thing to be at it’s best. Perform without any restrictions, or reducing it’s most glaring trait.
Naturally then I feel along with you to some degree that better peripherals all add into that mix… yet here and there still, perhaps one coloration in an accessory could be just the thing to polish the whole of it off.
Your replacement of outlets in that conditioner for example is a whole new idea to me and one I’d never have thought to do until now. Though I’m going to check with RSA to see which ones they used in their haley before I make any changes there.
I feel a rig is indeed a mixture regardless, when it’s all said and done… if it’s to come out of the oven done well.
Were the Avatar AfterBurner 8’s in any way better, or just the same but cheaper?
Many many thanks.
|
I don't like to think that I can use a cable or outlet to push the sound in a certain direction. I just want to hear what's being played as close to the original as possible.
The Porter Ports and Avatar AfterBurner 8 outlet don't seem to affect the sound.
The Oyaide outlets seem to. I had the R1, the SWO-GX and SWO-XXX all in my system at the same time in my power conditioner and wall. According to which outlet I used, the sound would change.
I just personally don't like that, especially trying something plugged into this one, then that one, then the third one. Now, which one did I like the best?
The Porter Ports and Avatar AfterBurner 8 outlets are consistant, whether it's "neutral" or not, I like that.
Chuck |
Krell_man
thanks... but which are colored how?
|
If you're looking for outlets to 'Do No Harm', I like the Porter Ports and Avatar Afterburner 8. To me the Oyaide outlets are colored, but that's my opinion. |
I haven't tried everything but will second the idea of Porter Ports. Really nice upgrade over my Hubble hospital grades and tonally neutral but improvement in impact, dynamics, noise background, ad soundstage.
Worth the money to try them and resell if they don't float your boat. |
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Lifeengineer
>>“Blindjim, how many outlets are you planning to replace?”<<
Good question.
With the current geography of the dedicated ckts, and equipment positioning, the plan is to split one Ded ckt. Into two receptacles vs the now ‘one’ duplex. On one side I’m thinking of going with something like a Porter, on the other side one of the oyaides.
The Porter will feed the HT proc and Butler 5ch amp I use as a 3 ch amp. The ‘which ever’ oyaide, will feed my Thor preamp… singularly… I suspect. Though that’s not cast in stone. The Butler amp could be fed from another spot.
Another high end outlet soon to be added, via a second Ded ckt. Will feed the Dodd monos… which are fed by an Elrod Sig III pc thru a RSA Haley, via a pair of Taipan Helix A’s.
The 3rd Ded ckt supplies the Stratos amp and some low end sources like cable gbox, NAS drive, and PC, The Stratos is directly fed out of the wall, and the sources get juice thru a PSA Duet via a Python VX.
This outlet can be of lesser price and influence yet still needs be a step up… and a porter was thought for this ckt.
Of course if there’s something not too pricey in between the Isoclean Fim, Oyiade, etc, and the Porter, that might be a fine fit for this ckt… as I could reroute the Butler to this outlet, and plug the Python vx into something else..
The 4th Ded ckt is across the room feeding the office eq. Printer, copier, TV, Mon, etc. I’ve no designs on exchanging that one at all.
>>“Some who are into the oyaides end up with a certain one that fits their personal likeness and others say go straight for the R1.”<<
R-1 ? What’s that one like?
>>”You may want to check out tesla,porter ports,and the new Maestro.Depends on what exactly you are trying to acomplish with each new addition as Rja pointed out for a balancing act.”<<
I agree. I looked today online at the SR site but found no duplex recp’s, only conditioners.
Maestro? Never heard of that one till now.
I suppose my aim is to gain still more palpability, presence, or ‘they are here’ than what I’m already getting without deducting from the current playlist entries. Some more blackness in the back drop should aid me there, naturally, and many of these choices seem to ascribe to that point.
I’d not wish to introduce anything which would harden any portion of the bandwidth or over emphasize leading edges or attacks.
More life OR NATURALNESS, perhaps… and a little closer to the music itself though without suspicion of listning fatigue. Also, I could stand to gain some greater depth of stage, and my preff would be to achieve a bit more SET quality without slowing things down appreciably as I do enjoy a fair amount of complicated large ensemble music. Big bands, jazz & blues.
My system IMO ALREADY gives me that Wow! Ooohh, now that’s really nice! Sort of presentation, but seldom is it that “Oh my God!” sort of thing except on some vocal recordings.
Personally I feel only an amp and/or speaker exchange can or will do that for me, but if I can climb a bit closer to it, that’ll do.
I think a combo of something more resolute and lively for the amps, and something sweeter for the preamp ought to suffice… though without adding untoward artifacts or over enhancing attacks.
This is why I’ve set to asking about what outlet sounds like or does what for a device attached to it.
Is the So & so x very smooth and extended; is the So & so Y very dynamic and quick; is the So & so Z highly resolute and exceedingly transparent? Those are the sentiments I felt I needed to make a good choice, and the thrust of this mini inquisition. |
I am using the FIMs for outlets and have 3 Oyaide GPX power cords and am happy with them. Can recommend the BPT outlet boxes to those who need more outlets. |
Blindjim, how many outlets are you planning to replace?Some who are into the oyaides end up with a certain one that fits their personal likeness and others say go straight for the R1.You may want to check out tesla,porter ports,and the new Maestro.Depends on what exactly you are trying to acomplish with each new addition as Rja pointed out for a balancing act. |
A bit more info.
Oyaides are brass with different platings as noted except R1 which is beryllium copper plated with palladium and platinum.
Fim 880 pure copper, Fim 880(G) pure copper gold plated.
Personally, I would not go with all R1s. I am using 2 Fim 880(G) in wall and 2 R1s in my power strip. This provides a nice balance. |
To be honest, I tired a bit of the effort and went finally with the outlets that "did no harm" to how I wanted my system to sound.
The best outlets dynamically (and I mean microdynamically as much as anything) were the original Eagles. Their clarity, tonal color and ability to achieve a wet sound was as good as any of the outlets I tried. There was an unacceptable level of HF hash however which is what set me out to find a better outlet.
My recollection is the Gold Oyaide had a slightly softer presentation but with all the color and much of the clarity.
With a newly installed dedicated line, I tried the 15a Furutech copper outlet. Very dynamic with good tone and clarity, but my system ultimately was less forgiving. So I sold that and tried the gold. Bingo. Good everything, no negatives, so I quit messing with it and went back to listening to music.
I couldn't give you a real comparison between the two outlets that I kept, but they are both a little to the wetter side. Could call that warmer if you want, but they both seem very extended and vibrant to me.
Don't know how much that helps you and YMMV.
I'll check the notes I made at the time and see if I have anything else to add.
Chris |
Chris
Thanks.
Drying out the sound is a definite possibility. I'm not sure how this anomoly occurs either. It's not attached to resolution & detail increases alone, of that I'm pretty sure.
What flavors did the two outlets you employed provide you with individually speaking? |
Blindjim,
A couple years back I went through several 15 amp outlets and was facinated on the impact they had on my CD Player, and to a lesser degree on my solid state integrated amp.
I ended up with a dedicated line and my favorite outlets, which were the Furutech 15a gold, and the Oyaide SWO-GX (gold).
Several others that I tried changed the sound in a way that I did not like, lessening my enjoyment, even from the "builders specials" that I started with.
I've followed recently some of your cable reviews and I appreciate your reference to a "wet" sound. I've achieved that sensation with my system on occassion and its quite moving. That is also the area of negative effects that I found with some popular outlets, which distinctly dried out the musical tone that I enjoy so much from my system.
I did not try some of the more expensive offerings.
Good luck in your search.
Chris |
