Owners of Carver Crimson 275 -Caution/Warning--Potential Increased Risk of Electric Shock


What's going on?:   If you own a Carver Crimson 275 amplifier there is a real potential that your amplifier does not have a proper chassis grounding scheme inside.  There is a type of grounding system involved, but the third prong of the IEC socket (the actual electrical socket on the inside of the amplifier) is left wide open on my amplifier and and at least one other amp that I have virtually confirmed (not firsthand--only through another owner).  

What does this mean?:  If one of the hookup wires carrying power/B+ came loose from its soldered weld and touched either the chassis or something conductive to the chassis and the user then touched the chassis/unit with the power on they could get a significant electric shock. There are some seriously high voltages in this tube amp (like many amps of its topology) and the result could be lethal.

Carver Corporation's Response to Status on Grounding:  I have notified Frank Malitz of the Carver Corporation about this problem.  He responded to me in writing saying the following, exact quotation, nothing more or less:  

"the design is under review with engineering and I'll contact you tomorrow." (F. Malitz)

In the interim, users may be at an increased risk of shock and bodily harm.   I would encourage you to check with an electronics expert or the Carver Corporation for further guidance, as I'm not qualified to say more than there's no confirmed chassis ground in the unit that I have and at least one other unit.  

Finally, unless you are qualified in working with high voltages do not open your unit to check for the ground wire running to the ground prong on the IEC. Please note that doing so with or without a chassis ground should only be done by someone experienced with electronics--i.e. caps must be discharged and care taken to cause an issue.  Seek professional help. 

I'm just a music lover and hobbyist.  I'm merely relaying this information out of concern for the safety of fellow humans. I'm not an expert and perhaps an expert will rule out this identified potential increased risk as non-existent.  For now, I can say that it is my opinion that there is a real reason to believe that grounding scheme might be deficient and I will not be using my amp until this is sorted out.  

I'll report any response from the Carver Corporation as soon as I hear back.  For now, my amp will sit unplugged. 

 

128x128jbhiller

@raysmtb1, many of us respect Bob and love what he’s done for hifi. He’s a legend in my book. Go read my posts about this amp. You’ll see we’ve given him the benefit of many doubts. But anyone saying the lack of proper grounding on this amp is not a problem, is incorrect. There’s no room for accepting this grounding scheme as acceptable in 2022.

I used to take electricity less seriously than I do today. I’ve incidentally rubbed up against a beefy Lundhal power transformer. I’ve touched a 120v AC line. I cannot imagine what 300, 400, 500 or more volts would feel like. If an amp design has issues with ground loops, this is not the way to handle it.

Paulbottlehead is spot on here.

Also, maybe it’s not so bad that the meter and the big electrolytic caps on the DC restorer circuit are literally held in place with glue--with no mechanical bond. But that method coupled with heat and a terrible, or shall we say non-existent grounding scheme, makes it utterly foreseeable that the amp could result in injury.

I think if anyone makes a post that says this isn’t an issue or it’s being exaggerated should have to take a basic electronics test before posting. If you’re reading this post, please make your decisions on the side of caution. The voltages in tube amps are seriously high. Some caps can hold super high voltages hours after power is shutdown.

On a lighter note...Maybe the shocks I have taken have caused my hifi Gear Acquisition Syndrome.  :)

All electrical products should be UL tested, I work for a large construction company and have read to many spec's, all of the electrical products are specified as UL tested. It's interesting that the Crimson 275 did not test well but sounds so good. Bob Carver is a great designer and respect his genius, but I want to turn on my Crimson 275 and not get zapped. Hope we here from Frank soon.

Take Care

 

Hope we here from Frank soon.

it is somewhat unfortunate we have duplicate threads on this carver amp...

there is info on this in the other thread