Tabl10s may possibly be a kick-ass boxer given his system page. Just one knockout can cause lasting problems. Don't get him angry!! HA. A best intended post can turn ugly by nit-pickers. Pay due respect to Mr Bose.
Richard Cranium (Michael Fremer) continues with the brainwashing that only over priced audiophile approved speakers are to be considered. When in reality audiophiles are being hosed by 90% of the manufacturers of those speakers. These manufacturers continue with the same old speaker designs decade after decade and when an engineer comes up with an innovative design it scares the manufacturers and reviewers into starting rumors in an effort to protect their over priced crap.
Take a look at the Venture Grand Ultimate speakers reviewed by TAS. Priced at $90,000 you would expect this speaker to have unique drivers and in fact it does. The tweeter is called a wide range dynamic tweeter. In reality it is a cone tweeter. Cone tweeters have been used by Bose for decades.
One of the most important characteristics for speakers is a seamless presentation of drivers. No speaker is more seamless than the Bose 901 utilizing the same drivers throughout with no crossover.
You say the Bose 901 does not image like audiophile speakers? The Bose 901's imaging is equal to any electrostatic or bipolar speaker. The advantage the 901 has is its wide dynamic range and more than reasonable price.
Bose has been successful NOT because of marketing, but because people like the sound of their speakers and they are made to work with your room instead of against it like most speakers.
Let's face it, we have all been brainwashed. I include myself in that statement. I was also a Bose basher for many years because I was an avid magazine reader and I was sure I knew what I was talking about because I was learning from the experts. Finally I decided to perform an experiment. I purchased a pair of Bose speakers to find out what these speaker are REALLY about.
I can tell you the magazine reviewers we have held in high regard are fonies in fear of losing their advertising dollars and the free equipment they sell at a later date and pocket the money. This is what determines whether a product is good or bad in the magazines we read.
Let's face it. We have all been duped and many of us continue to be duped. It's time to wise up and start thinking for yourself.
A women I know recently bought a Wave at a garage sale. She LOVES it in her kitchen. She pretends to be Italian, so I brought over some Rossini. She shut it off after ten seconds and said "I ain't listening to no freaking ballet". My first experience with any Bose product. Nothing wrong with it by me, at all! Although I find it hard to believe their infomercial where Herbie Hancock listens to one at home. HA
I hear a wave radio every day. best way to make a decent recording sound flat. I watch the non audio folks rave about how good it is but I note that they dont until they see bose on the front. Best marketing folks in the business.
Paulsax, Too bad high end audio manufacturers don't know how to market their products. They continue to advertise in the same old magazines with declining subscriptions. Not only are the subscriptions declining, but they have also disappeared from the magazine racks as well. You forgot to mention price. Bose has managed to keep their products affordable, unlike high end audio manufacturers. The Bose 901 is their most expensive product with a retail price of $1400 including speakers, stands and dedicated equalizer. I recall my brother stopping by to hear my Dunlavy speakers with Audio Research electronics. He liked the sound, but he was not willing to take out a second mortgage to buy a high end stereo system.
But what this really boils down to is taste or is it? There are many high end companies and either you like their products or you don't. Nobody likes all high end products. Some are warmer sounding and others are cooler sounding. Some have better bass and others are more open. So, what is it about Bose? It's more than just the sound. It's like some entity has created a hatred for Bose by starting rumors. An entity that feels threatened by a company that can actually produce their product at a reasonable price and sell it for a profit. Maybe it is even deeper than that. Maybe it is national/ethnic or maybe it is religious. This is something we may never know, but from what I have seen this is much deeper than just a matter of taste in an audio product. Why else would Michael Fremer take it upon himself to bash a successful man at the time of his death and make an all out effort to degrade a successful company. Does Michael represent a specific group of people? Who knows?
I've often wondered about the Bose "haters". Why so polarized? It was enough of a phenomena that my curiosity got the better of me so I worked up a few profiles of the haters.
You have the ones that have to get a deal on everything. They hate Bose because they can't get a deal on their products. Bose is very firm on their prices. Evidently the haters are not smart enough to figure out that Bose could "list" the price higher then "let" someone grind them down to to what Bose would have sold it for in the first place...all so the customer can feel like he got a deal which then makes him feel more like a man (instead of the idiot he is).
Then you have the snobs. Their equipment is so much better than Bose and it just kills them when someone is just as happy with their Bose Wave Radio (and probably more so) than they would be with the "snobs" TOTL Best Buy components or whatever brand of audiophile components the snob has decided is best. They don't get it that some people just don't want a mess of equipment and wires cluttering up the house and/or don't care about if they can tell if the guitarist is using nylon, gut or steel strings. They just enjoy the song he's playing.
Another group is what I would call the "Tommy's" (as in the Rock Opera by The Who). It's these peoples way or no way. They have seen the light and it is ________ (fill in the blank). At least in The Who's story, after the revolt, it showed that the "deaf, dumb and blind" way doesn't work for everybody. I have hope for the Tommys of the world.
Well, that's a couple profiles and I'm sure there are more, with, maybe, roots tracing back to insecurity and inferiority.
It's fine to have opinions, I just wonder why someone would waste their life opining about all the things they hate. Seem like a waste to me.
Here's a couple of my opinions:
Rrog, you have a very nice system...Audio Research and Dunlavys. Mine is a little different... Conrad Johnson ART preamp, Pass XA100.5 monos and some customized Magnepan 3.6's but I'm sure I would enjoy listening to yours a lot.
To Bose Wave Radio owners....Excellent choice. My wife and I bought one for her Mother. She loves it and we liked it so much we bought another one for us.
Back in the day, I owned a pair of 901s, properly suspended from the ceiling, against a long concrete wall, driven by an AR preamp(the best preamp I had on hand), Ampzilla amp(the best amp I had on hand), an early Linn LP12 rig, Mcintosh tuner, Revox open reel. I was the envy of the neighborhood. This system did some wonderful things, and, those were wonderful times,lol. Yes, I had lots of other speakers, and equipment, but the 901s were enjoyable back then, and that was, and is, what it is all about. I am certain the majority of you have not heard a proper 901 set up, then, or now. MrD.
Rrog well put. I personally am not a bose hater, rather i put them in the bag with monster as a company that does not really deliver value for money but defends that practice by things like limiting reviews (though you are correct and I suspect that bose wont often get a fair shake now days). I had a friend with bose no too long back and a driver failed. I found a replacement online for something like $10 and holding both together they were identical. that plus the 1/2 inch particle board and crude wiring made for a speaker with about $100 of materials that he spent way, way more money on. in this case he loved them and thats the only thing that matters. as his friend i would rather have seen him get his 100 dollar speaker for a more reasonable markup but we live in a free market and if they can pull it off who am I to poke them. to be clear omar bose was really a game changer and i can criticize the company practices but in no way criticize him. rip indeed.
unrelated, sort of. does anybody know if the wave radios have different spec or if they make a wave looking radio that is not the full monty? I ask because i've heard wave radios (i thought) and they sounded like clock radios in a hotel room, yes gross exaggeration . something is not adding up. folks around here are usually pretty decent judges and the WR love is leaving me scratching my head.
Early in my audio career, I was part of a Bose demonstration at a hotel in NY for the audio retail community. We connected a model 901 to an electrical outlet for about 8 minutes, showing that, the drivers can withstand a lot of current, and, the use of no crossover, they were practically indestructible. After the 8 minutes, we connected it back up to the crown amp and it played fine. How many of us would dare do that with our speakers. The foam surrounds back then deteriorated, and now they use butyl rubber, as most now do. Say what you want, but at todays price of under $1500. for a set, including the eq, set up properly, against a proper wall, suspended from the ceiling, as they should be, they are a product that can deliver some listening fun. I will not buy a pair, but honestly, you can spend a lot more, and do a lot worse. I must have installed a hundred pair of 901s back in the day (many to the NY Jets franchise), and the owners were very happy. Just a fun product, that does do some things very well ! MrD
In the early 70's a couple of friends and I drove from San Diego to a movie theater in LA to see the premiere of "The Concert for Bangladesh". Ravi Shankar was there in person. The theater had a whole bunch of Bose 901's suspended from the ceiling. The concert/movie was great...giant screen and VERY LOUD. I actually went up to the snack bar and got a paper napkin, tore two pieces of it off to stick in my ears. It was louder than many of real concerts I've been to.
I did own a pair of the 901's back then and enjoyed them.
I heard a difference that I thought was quite noticeable between the first Wave Radio/CD (that had the flip up lid for the CD) and the second generation one that you inserted the CD in from the front. To my ears, it sounds like it has a better amp in it.
It came out not too soon after the one I bought. The Bose store took mine back at full price and gave me the newer one. I just paid the sales tax. I think the 3rd gen is pretty much the same with some FM enhancements.
It may not be your cup of tea. I bought mine before Herbie touted it or I heard any of their advertising claims so maybe my expectations weren't up so high. But I like it and still have it. I'd call it more of a "music lover" product for someone who wants it simple than an "audiophile" one.
Onemug, thank you for your response. I seem to remember anything and everything having to do with audio and music, memory, being what it is. Listening to music is all about having fun ! MrD.
Paulsax, What companies do think offer good value in audio? How about a Dalby record weight for $4000 or Bybee speaker bullets for $4000. You can buy the little Wilson Duette speaker for $12,500. Is this a good value? Do you think the Audio Note 2 way speaker for $55,000 is a good value? I could give examples like this all day. So, please tell me what a good value in audio really is because I don't know.
We used the 901's for any remotes because you could get tremendous spl's from them before they started to break up. The sound was what it was, but pound for pound with proper amplification they remain very relaxed to mind numbing volumes. It meant lees equipment to lug around.
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