Your arguments are approaching the absurd. No one is saying other component consideration isn't important. What we "speakers first" are saying, they impart the greatest impact on your mind. I had one goal when I set out on my audio journey and that was to give voice to the greatest speaker I ever heard. That, in turn, began the best amp, pre amp, and front end search. |
Your system will always be limited by the weakest link. Doesn't matter if it is the source, speakers, amp or cables. A $10,000 system will still sound like garbage if one of the main components is a $99 piece of _____. ie, what would a Jadis system sound like with old bose 201s? |
Good one Rosstaman, I can agree with that. I don't feel I can pick one part of the system out. Like a car, which is the most important part? If you say engine, and drive with cheap brakes, you may be in trouble. Another good analogy is the old joke about which body part is most important. The brain says I am, because without me the body wouldn't know what to do. The heart said I am because without me working you, the brain wouldn't be able to function. The argument goes on and on between all the body parts, until the a**hole speaks up and says I'm the most important part. All the other body parts started LOL. The thought of the a**hole being the most important body part, ridiculous. Well the a**hole went on strike. A day or two later, the mind started shutting down, the heart was getting weak, the eyes became blurred. They all relented and admitted that the a**hole was the most important part.
Sorry for the poor telling of that old joke, but IMHO the whole system is only as good as it's weakest link. Great sources are wasted on subpar speakers, and vice versa. Ignore the electricity, and you'll never know how good those thousands of $$$'s of equipment will sound. You need to approach it from a whole systems outlook.
Just my $.02
John |
Sorry to be a bit acerbic, but I'm lost here; since when are your ears "PART of a good two channel system"? I'd also say the original question also takes for granted that you are listening to music you like, and that it is well-recorded music. If it is not well-recorded music there is nothing your two-channel system is going to do that can change that, and if you don't have two good ears, I'd say it is fairly obvious that you won't hear the music reproduced the same as someone with better hearing (although the music, and its accurate reproduction, certainly has the capacity to move both those who have impaired hearing, as well as those who can hear perfectly). Yes, the listening room and its contents and structure will certainly play a very important roll in how your system sounds, as well the placement of all of it. But again, the question seemed to be about the components themselves, and not things external to the system. My point is that you guys (& gals?) are straying, though I think 6chac has some very important things to say on this subject! Seriously though, I am surprised at those who would think the speaker can make up for a poor source component. In my experience I'd much rather listen to music (yes, music that I like) played through a good source component on a lesser quality speaker, then listen to a poor source on a great speaker (yes, I have tried both). I just have not found that the latter combination makes me want to listen very long...it is simply not as engaging. Whereas the former, and I have listened to this kind of combination, remains an engaging and non-fatiguing listen to me. Granted, my experience is limited, and is obviously very subjective (YMMV). Given a fixed budget, I would try to find a balance of all the components, but would put some extra $ into my source rather than my speakers. Again, my stress would be on synergy overall, but in my experience, the source is the most forgiving of all the components in combining with others. A great source component is likely to remain a great source component when combined with many different systems, whereas a specific 'great' amp may not as easily swap over throughout different systems and still retain its outstanding qualities in combination with various pre-amps and speakers. |
Speakers will make the bigest difference in any audio system, the differences between sources and amplification are minute compared to the possibilities with speakers. This is not to say the other components are not imporant, but merely that there is less varition in the sound of electronics than with acousitic transducers. |
It is my humble belief that speakers play the most important part in a two-channel system.
I became convinced that speakers are the most important piece in a two-channel system when I heard a store rep hook-up a pair of B&W Nautilus 802 speakers to a Sony ES receiver and Sony ES CD changer. All of a sudden, J-Lo and Puff Daddy sounded incredible. The demo was done for another customer, not me, but I learned that quality speakers are the biggest improvement to a system you can make. Hook a pair of Bose to the same Sony ES receiver and a Clear Audio Turntable. IMO the ES and B&W combination will win hands down everytime.
Please do not get me wrong. I am not trying to play devil’s advocate. There are those who will argue that a two-channel system is only as good as the material entering your equipment (source material) and I respect that school of thought. However, it is my humble belief that speakers play the most important part in the overall experience one takes away from listening to music and thus are the most important piece in the system.
Dan S. |
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Your listening space has the most effect, in my view, on the overall sound reproduced by your system. The recorded source obviously is what will most influence the sound you hear, but I'm focusing on the reproduction of that source. |
6chac, lovely and funny as usual. Is this going to be a reunion? |
I am in the all camp. If there is no head; it's a dumb. If there's no middle; the swan can't fly. If there's no tail; the Dragon sinks in the bath tub. :-)
You also need a big Ego to have those completed ... Just kidding... Hehehe. |
speakers...i don't think that my system will sound that bad if i replace the Audiomeca CD player with a $150 Pioneer DVD player, but i can bet that the system will suck big time if I replace my Innersound isis with $100 KLH speakers from best Buy... |
in this case one-D thinking cannot be precise since saying that speakers or amp are the most important components is just like measuring the length of a shadow not knowing the actual position of the subject.
less demand certainly on the speaker if the amp is hell of a beefy and strong and the other way back.
how about building an amp or an active speaker with amp that perfectly accepts a speaker's impedance curve huh?
than the system will totally relay on source and pre-amplification. what if an amp is quite sencitive, having high input impedance and your listening room is not too big?
yes, you can get along with passive preamp and now the source is the most important component!
or i can offer you a simple statement:
i have a speakers but i know that there are better; i have an amp, but i know that there are better; but i have them together and i love them ONLY together...
one and THE only one exception and probably the most important part of a good 2 channel system is the music that YOU love - that's definitely number 1. |
Musiqlovr, I whole heartedly agree with you, speakers should always come first. Let me explain.
I use to frequent an audio business of rare quality. It was owned by Keith Yates of home theater design fame. He carried only the very best components. I watched and listened to a parade of great speakers debut on a weekly basis. All speakers enjoyed the best upstream components available. One speaker stood clearly above and beyond all others. I had to have that speaker. Knowing what kind of amp I needed to drive that speaker culled out almost all choices. I was lucky to have a wonderful cd player demonstrated at my place. That left only the pre amp. I just chose the most sonically invisible one I could afford.
I'm in music heaven now. And that is all because I realized the fallacy of front end first. It doesn't matter what golden player you plug into a sows ear of a speaker, it still will be a sows ear. I've heard plenty of great everything but the speaker systems, and every one was a disappointment. |
A good, but oft repeated thread. Source |
The person(or you) behind the system. |
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I'd put the highest priority on the source. But I'd also add that Synergy between components/cables/tweaks plays a major roll in making or breaking a system. You can go out and randomly pick out a sampling of very expensive high end components that may sound like crap when combined together, whereas careful selection and pairing of some of the same components with others would yield a magical system. Speakers can potentially have the most radical effect/change on the 'sound of the system', but, as the first respondant points out; Garbage in = garbage out! Or, as I pointed out in another thread, changing the speakers may make the garbage smell sweeter, but it's still garbage! |
I'm in the source camp too. |
source. crap in: crap out. |
