Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

Mapman - The 7 kHz roll-in for the tweeter, IIRC, was mentioned somewhere on the old Ohm web site.  Next month, I will be hearing the German Physiks speakers, which use a Dick's Dipole Walsh-type driver for all but the low bass frequencies.  No tweeter, just like the F's.  In fact, a dealer told me the inspiration for the German Physiks was the Ohm Walsh speakers.  The designer wondered what could be done with fewer cost constraints than Ohm was under.  They do roll off above 18 kHz, but I see no reason why the Ohm Walsh drivers can't go higher than 2 or 3 kHz.  The beaming you would get from a full range, forward radiating 8" driver should be ameliorated by the Walsh omni radiating pattern, I would think.  I would bet that listening to Walshes without the tweeter would not be as treble-less sounding as the graph suggests.  That said, just looking at the Fs is instructional.  It has no tweeter, but the tall cone shape of the driver suggests it can reproduce higher frequencies from the narrower portions of the cone, near the top.  Current Walsh drivers appear to be conventional, shallow cones that lack the tall profile of the Ohm F drivers.  Hence the super-tweeter.  That John was able to adapt the Walsh principles to a design using conventional drivers speaks volumes about his ability to design speakers, and to keep costs down, which is probably the reason for the change in driver design.  And, I fully agree, the proof is in the listening.  John simply knows how to voice speakers.  A production version of what Peterr53 is going to end up with would probably be priced in the $20,000 range, or more.  

Peterr53 - While I have no doubt the Ohms can be improved by using a higher quality tweeter, I do question the wisdom of moving the crossover from 7 kHz to ~2.5 kHz.  One of the things that makes the Ohm Walsh speakers special, IMHO, is that there is no crossover in that critical 2-5 kHz range.  Very few conventional speakers that I have heard with crossovers in that range sound good to me in the upper mid/lower treble range.  But with your digital crossover, you will have total flexibility to dial in the crossover as you feel it sounds best.

Hey Mapman....

If you feel like fiddling I'll be more than happy to let you borrow the 
ribbon tweeters for testing. You might have to take things apart and do some simple soldering but it's worth it for sure. 
Just let me know.

You never know until you eff it up.....🇸🇪

I could see the benefits of the hot melt glue to attach the braces to my old cabs.  Would help absorb vibrations I'd think.   In some apps more of s convenience perhaps but a very effective one.  Looks would be one downside but out of sight out of mind I guess.  

Maybe John will read this and adapt some of your ideas.   I'd love to hear the esotar tweeter in my ohms personally. 

Peter I think JS goal as I read it is to give great sound for reasonable cost.  Not build a race engine.   Every engineer has a different vision.   Also a business must make a profit and ohm has been around and us based in Brooklyn for many years.   So it's a model that seems to work and hopefully continues to.   I will say prices have gone up in recent years but still us made.   I paid less than half of list for my 5s with sale price and trade ins a great deal for the sound.   Granted there are many good speakers at ohm retail prices these days but nothing like them.   

Love hotmelt glue by the way, but not the last word in assembly science...

And  it burns.....🇸🇪

Love sharing...

No doubt is how the pie taste, cheap perfectly cooked ingredients makes good pie.
But amazing ingredience fresh from the garden, perfectly cooked with an amazing latticework cap is so much better, both visually and taste wise.

When you start to charge big money for a product a certain level
of workmanship will be expected by most people. 
For instance... You are building your client a race engine, he's expecting forged rods and Pistons, Ferrea valves and a camshaft that's been ice hardened. But you have found a way to make the engine run great on cheap parts and because of that you just made a ton of money.... pending on that the client doesn't open up the engine....

Now to be honest I do engineering work, and my forte is to find a better way to make the Mose trap..trap I.E. even if he used the best parts I would have tinkered away to make it better, that's just me...

As for the frequency sweep it is an indication on what's going on, maybe not the last
word but close enough. The Walsh driver is wonderful and capable, and if you like the 
omni directional style of presentation hard to beat.

Adding a rear tweeter in phase with the Walsh driver is a must, but a volume control must be used to balance the presentation. The ribbon is a revelation giving you the missing imaging capabilities of other designs....a must.

Question everything......🇸🇪

Well for one example I’m pretty sure hot melt glue is acoustically inert and I know it is not expensive and does its job (holding things together) well. Plus its all normally out of sight. I use the gun I bought to fix loose braces in my old Walsh 2s for things around the house all the time.

Smart or cheap?

Thanks Bond for sharing your experience with the double F's. If nothing else it must have been fun to actually see them and witness them working, even if not the most ideal. Also, thanks for the info on the CLS tweeter crossover point, it really isn't too important for me to know, just my own musings or thoughts about it all. 

While I claim no expertise on how Peter mic'ed and set up his frequency sweep, weighting, scaling and all that, it does look to me like the output of the main driver while reaching that 2.5 kHz figure and beyond, it would appear it is a good deal down in db/output. It would be interesting to see an accurate sweep of both main driver and tweeter just to get an idea as a wholistic snap shot. Again, I apologize for my ignorance on what I may or may not be seeing here!

In the end though, it matters not how it measures, or how cheap the drivers or parts are, or how crummy it all may be put together overall, if it sounds good, then it is good! Just goes to show you how much can be rung out of these parts and build if one knows what they are doing! Anyway, again, just my own simple minded thoughts here! 

Thanks Peter for your sharing too! Appreciate your time and efforts! 

Peter don’t know. I have dynaudio speakers with top notch build including highly regarded isotar  soft dome tweeter.

They are sitting unused at present. Guess which speakers in the same setup I find completely satisfying to listen to?

just goes to show there is more to making good sound than expensive highest quality parts.

If you took a look at the Walsh 12" driver you notice that a lot of the driver is covered by the basket casting, they tried to mitigate the issue by adding foam padding and some sticky 3M tape on each leg of the casting. I think if they could find a casting with thinner legs I'm 
sure it could sound even better. Just look at the original F driver or 
the German Physics driver..... Just a thought.

Always ask questions......🇸🇪

Here's some new images...

The tweeter is the 4/5000 unit that was removed, the quality of the parts are abysmal, plastic housing, hot melt glue...yikes
Same tweeter was in the center channel, with that said you have to
congratulate JS for making such low cost parts sound the way they do.
I also attached an image of the CC after I was done with it believe me it looked nothing like in the image. And it sounds great, no comparison.

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/CC%201000_zpshlk96p6o.jpg.html?o=1

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/tweet%20back_zpsa2wc3rk1.jpg.html?o=1

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/tweet%201_zpsyzspyxd5.jpg.html?o=1

Well, it’s a plus to get at that response even out of a seemingly fairly conventional 12" driver mounted like that I suppose. It covers fundamentals of most musical instruments including voice but harmonics to a more limited extent.

X000 series advertised evolution not revolution in the sound so I can’t imagine versions prior would be that much different in approach though the originals were not nearly as good sounding as those that followed.

7khz out of any driver like that seemed a stretch but who knows. That figure got in my mind somewhere along the line but do not recall the exact source.

Its possible smaller drivers in smaller models go a bit higher I suppose. If so, I’ve not noticed much difference in teh end result to date when comparing 100S3 (8" driver) to 5S3 (12").

I think it would be accurate to say conventional 2 way designs with smaller drivers are more common. I can’t think of any quality 2 ways that use a 12" driver other than these. Most are 3-way or more.

I’ve always been a fan of as few drivers as needed to get the whole job done. The sound is almost always more coherent sounding to me that way.

In the case of teh CLS drivers, I suspect the ability to mount the tweeter physically where it is relative to to driver is a big contributor to the time coherency which might account for that aspect of the Walsh CLS speaker sound compared to many others perhaps more so even than the driver crossover frequency.

Back again...

My 4/5000 is of the latest iteration as far as I know.
As for frequency extension/ super tweeting...it's all fairy tales 
and wishful thinking. The tweeter JS is using as the top of the line
tweeter is a plastic peerless tweeter (4ohm) that can be bought all day long for $13-$15 nothing special. The Walsh driver will tweet up to about 2.25khz then fall of as per the chart I attached.
This is not a bad thing as long as you X-over the tweeter low enough
to make up for the difference. My idea to use a ribbon tweeter that can be crossed over below 2k with not to steep of a filter, maybe
12db or so should work very well. I also have some ideas how to
mechanicall adjust time domain. I'll attach an image of the raw tweeter driver in a bit....

Heja Sverige.....🇸🇪

frazeur1:  IIRC, the tweeter rolling in above 7 kHz was stated on the old Ohm web site.  I did a quick search for this on the current Ohm web site and found no mention of the tweeter at all.  But if you really want to know, call (don't email) John Strohbeen.  I am sure you will get a clear answer. 

Mapman - I don't want to sound like I am bragging, but both in this case and at Ohm's room at the Chester Group Show in NYC in November, I preferred my system by a significant margin.

In the case of he doubled Ohm Fs, I could see how they might be a bit smoother and more relaxed than my 2000s (a lot more cone surface area).  But as good as they were, they could not match the bass output of my Vandy subs.  Also, the turntable feeding the Mark Levinson preamp and Marantz receiver was not operating perfectly (a long story that I am not at liberty to discuss).  I think there also may have been issues with one of the four speakers (a blown fuse may have been replaced during the day).  Add to that the unfamiliar source material, vintage SS low powered amplification, and rather small room, and it wasn't a legitimate comparison.

At the THE show, I thought the 1000s were just okay.  Hotel room acoustics weren't helping, and although the Peachtree integrated had enough juice (150 watts X 2), the Sony DVD player used as a source (into the Peachtree's DAC) was not exactly a high end front end.  They sounded good, and impressed a lot of show goers.  But to me, they fell a bit short of my own rig.

As Paul McGowan of PS Audio would say, maybe I am just acclimated to my own rig.  But I think I have the whole system dialed in pretty well.  The funny part is, I haven't put a lot of effort into it.  The 2000s are positioned where the room dictates - there aren't many options for placement if I want to keep them away from front and side walls. I put up some foam panels, but I had even more up and took some down.  I think I could use some diffusion, but that's pricey, and, for now, on hold.  The Vandy subs I just plunked in the front corners as per Vandersteen's recommendation.  The only tweeks are mass loading on the subs, my 3-point Sound Anchor cradle bases for the 2000s, and some foam speaker cable supports.  I also credit the Odyssey Audio amp.  At the same meeting I heard the Ohms Fs, I also heard KEF Blades.  I've heard the Blades numerous times, including at the Wiesfeld's home, and never was too thrilled.  This time, they were really good.  Not, "take my Wilsons and give me these" good, but better than I'd ever heard them before.  Guess what amps were powering them?  Odyssey Audio Stratos Monos.  "Only" 180 watts per side, arguably a bit low-powered for The Blade, but the sound was really good.  

Bottom line:  I'd rather be lucky than smart.  I have sort of stumbled into what I consider really good sound in my home.  Sure, I did some research and listening, but I made a lot of educated guesses and ended up with I think is excellent system synergy.   

One thing I find interesting too, is that I keep hearing that the CLS tweeter/super tweeter supposedly comes in around 5-7 khz depending on what one reads. Is this really true or just here-say? I often wonder how the large main drive of the CLS could fill that frequency gap in enough to sound right. Just one of those things that makes me wonder. Again, the Ohms sound good, so who am I to question?

peter I’m no expert in crossovers by any stretch but based on your chart of the OHm Walsh bass driver alone, it would seem that the crossover JS uses provides a very gradual transition over an extended frequency range in order to deliver a typical reasonably flat response in the end.

I’m curious if you change the crossover how would you accomplish that and with what end goal in mind?

Of course with a different tweeter its a somewhat different ballgame as well.

I wish I could find the old measurements of older OHM Walsh speakers I had seen a while back but it appears the site’s publisher retired and the site is no longer available. It is referenced at the end of the Wikipedia article on Lincoln Walsh still.

Bondman,

I’ve never heard OHM Fs. How did what you heard compare to what you get at home?

What is the mic?

Also are these series 2 or 3 drivers and new when acquired?

I ask because older drivers could easily not perform as well for a variety of reasons.

Also room acoustics typically provide bass boost versus measuring in something more like an anechoic chamber to whatever extent that might be a factor here.

Also I’ve seen measurements of series 2 Walsh speakers from teh 80’s and curves were reasonably flat with typical deviations. Of course that was entire speaker and no way to know how one set of test gear and conditions compare to another.

I would not listen to the Walsh speakers without the tweeter. Listening from behind with no tweeter exposure confirms that.

I would expect the bass driver to roll off as frequency goes up to some significant extent.

if original response with tweeter was reasonable flat as it should be that would indicate the tweeter and crossover together with the bass driver provides that. No surprise there.

No commercially sold Walsh or Walsh style driver I know of can cover everything and operate reliably over time. Dale Harders newer models are the most recent attempt I know of. Original OHM Fs did it to 16khz or so when working but that was very tenuous.

I would only judge the sound and performance as measured of the complete package, not the parts. In a project like yours however its of course important to know what each part is doing.

Interesting stuff.

Mapman...
The amps  are the big Emotiva mono blocks that will put out close to
1kw at 4ohm. The test software is in my iPad mini with a outboard mic.
Let me dig in to my files and see what I have saved.

Later.....🇸🇪

The graph was a Walsh driver no tweeter, so that would be like listening with an ear infection. The driver is only four years old so pretty new I guess. But as I said before, when adding the ribbon tweeter and rear tweeter to the equation the package sounds incredible. But I know there's a diamond in the rough hidden in there
that will come out when I release the "Spaghetti Monster"...

Time for an espresso.....🇸🇪

What equipment including amp are you using to produce the response graph?

Did you do one on the whole speaker prior for comparison?

Also remind me how old are the speakers and which gen driver?

Don't be put off by that response graph.  My 2000s' response graph had a similar overall shape.  IMHO, systems that tilt downward to the right are much more listenable, realistic, and involving over the long run.  If you want, EQ the system to be flat and see how you like it.  I know I would not like it at all.

Just to clarify further I ran a pink wide and noise for the measurements...

PS. IM also selling the center channel as it does not match my front
even a little bit......got to go bigger.
The ad is here on Audiogone. I will have some better images tomorrow when I get the new (black cloth) grill material on.
And the speaker looks spectacular with the new driver, and me cleaning up the diy look...

Thanks guys...

I do want to take the high road on most issues, but the monster mess of a X-over Pushed me over the edge the other day...lol

Those double F's has been offered on the bay for years, cool idea
none the less.
I am looking at which tweeter makes sense with the Walsh driver and two types are in contention at the moment. Raal and Aurum booth can be X-over fairly low with no issues.
 It'll be interesting to see at what upper frequency the Walsh driver poops out. I attached a frequency sweep image.

There is two measurements at 1m but at two volume levels.
Please give me feedback.

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/image_zpsxljnfpw6.jpeg.html?filters[user]=1...

Best....🇸🇪

I've seen those on Ebay.   VEry cool.

frazeur good point. I’d expect cabinet interactions of Walsh style drivers (and tweeters mounted essentially in total isolation from cabinet) to be much lesser than in most cases where drivers are mounted and coupled directly to cabinets. Exclusively in teh bass as I understand it. Many would regard a design that reduces cabinet interaction in and of itself potentially a good thing and based on listening I would agree.

Of course there are many factors that go into good sound. What matters most will vary case by case, design by design.

The Ohm Walshs are essentially a "black box" in the sense that transducers are totally enclosed (in the can) and out of view. That makes for a lot of wiggle room that would not be tolerable aesthetically otherwise.

I hear the beautiful music but all the ugly parts are out of view.

Kinda like just driving a car versus looking under the hood. I will look in there for routine maintenance or if I suspect a problem but that’s about it.

Also I think we are talking about refurbed Walsh 4 cabinets here, not new cabs.   

My F5 series 3 OHMs use refurbed OHM F cabinets, which was a big attraction for me.   Many still regard OHM Fs as one of the best speakers ever (at least when they were not broken).    So the cabs cannot be too shabby.   The drivers are much different but the topology relative to the cabs is essentially the same  although most new Walsh speakers are ported not sealed.   5015 models with powered subs on board are the exception.

Its 1:30 am house is quiet but my brain is racing like a well tuned 
F1 car. I love F1 the technology, the aerodynamics and the material science, wish I had the dough to use some of the technology for the speaker up grade, but my wife is looking at the project with eyes shut wide.....she misses nothing IE. This is not her first rodeo.

After dealing with the X-over last night, I decided to go with an
electronic crossover. I'll be able to play with so many variables
build memory for each setting, but mostly that I can test and probe the different possible settings without having to rebuild the X-over.
buying new parts etc....

Im happy.....🇸🇪

The up's and downs of......

So finally a beautiful California day with sun and blue skies.

After feeling that I have more great ideas then time to execute, its back to the project. I finally got the cabinets done, with a few small additions that I'll do before final assembly. Last night I pulled out the drivers, removed the last of the cage around the X-over and Walsh driver......

The downer?  Seriously what we're they thinking when they slapped together this spaghetti monster of a X-over. Do anyone remember speaker switchers of yore? Nothing good has ever been written or said about these devices, except for a few naysayers with no hearing. The image attached will say it all and it has to be removed asap.
Im still contemplating the X-over design or I might contemplate an electronic version
with infinite possible variations of settings.

I realize that 4/5000 cabinets are a hybrid old/new design, but after a little staring at the parts ( I do a lot of that lol) I suddenly saw a glaring screw-up, the Walsh driver was covered 
by part of the original cabinet....This is pure laziness and should never happen on a $5000
speaker. As can be seen in the image it's not a small area either. There is also some old
rubber gaskets left from the old set-up!!!

This will get done sooner than later, until then......🇸🇪

I stuck my head in the box....

I love walking the isles of Home Depot I don’t know if it’s the smell or the over abundance of stuff, man stuff (sorry girls) that has to be purchased, used once put in a drawer until you need one again, but due to onset of early tool dementia you buy another one...now you have two.

So no glue in the cabinet of the ever growing collection of spray paints. It would have been way easier to have a self adhesive cork sheet as spraying glue is one messy proposition.
The Ohm 4/5k looks big from the outside, but is nothing but on the inside, Donny small hands would’ve be way more successful in all the tiny crevices and spraying contact cement is no fun.
Got it all done and here’s an images of the Cork and some polysheets attached to the braces.

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/ohm%204_zps6gmmglyv.jpg.html?o=1

Finally got a chance to stick my head in a finished box and in a factory non treated cabinet.......Wow
Wish you could hear the difference I’m expecting tighter bass faster response on transients, but the proof is in the pudding.
Im also changing up on the Tweeter (front and rear) so if some one wants 2 ribbon drivers or 2 soft dome tweeter let me know, price will be very fair.

Dinner is next with some adult beverages, till next time...🇸🇪

Today is cork day....

Such  lovely material, warm, soft and useful in so many ways.
I do love a good bottle of wine so popping a fake cork cork is 
a let down, but I understand the Eco part of the equation.

Today I'm using real cork, 1/4" thickness with self adhesive backing
OR NOT....just opened the package from Amazon and so much for self adhesive convenience...damn!  Life's a struggle and then you decide to take apart some Ohm speakers and BAM....Moving the lawn looks like a simple project lol

I guess I have to either raid the garage for some appropriate glue or
silicone or Home Depot is my next stop..

Stay thirsty my friends...🇸🇪

Holes will be drilled......

Before I continue with my writing I like to make sure that everyone understands
Im doing this for fun and my written word is just that. No implied or down playing of 
anyone else's speakers, sounds or what ever else I'm covering or uncovering when
re-building these speakers. Everyone hears differently and everyone perceives quality of
sound and workmanship in different ways......😄❤️

After that love fest....💥

Its amazing what what music masks while playing a wonderfull piece of composition
might it be classical or pop and everything in between. I'm actually having Amazon Alexa
playing me some great classical while typing these words.

Now pink noise...really changes everything, certain issues gets uncovered, a small change
uncovers strengths or downfalls in the driver. So I de-coupled the tweeter from the unit
I.E. I played the Ohm driver by it self with no help from the tweeter, and first I listened 
without touching the switches (set at my normal positions) sounds OK I guess, not much
high frequency energy but a surprising amount never the less.

I move the room size switch: Almost no changes I might hear a less then a db change
in all 3 positions.

Room location:  Free position has a small boost which is to be expected. The room size switch "small" position bumps high frequency by a small amount

Perspective switch: from close to far I'm getting almost 3.5 db difference in output
I would say that's a fairly substantial difference.

Now to the frequency output of the Ohm driver. Looking at the trace I'm not seeing 
a whole lot of output as it starts to roll of fairly fast after 2.25khz, this measurement 
was taken with the perspective switch in highest output (close) setting. Now I do believe there's a perceived output to about 4.5k but it's about 20db down or worse.

As for the crossover for the Tweeter my guess is as good as yours my friends
as I have not taken the time to by pass the big driver due to the crossover architecture.
Im sure it's crossed over at 2.5k or somewhere in that neighborhood.

Good news, bad news? I think it's mostly good, as I have a great platform to work from.
I love the concept but I think JS has left a lot of possibilities on the table, the crossover 
is coplicated beyond what I've ever seen.
What am I expecting from these changes? That's in the next installment.

Now I'm going to drill some holes...🇸🇪

Its a big cat indeed...

Just ran some pink noise for the hell of it and found some surprises.

Got to take my darling daughter to lunch but I will explain when I get back.

Damn this is fun....🇸🇪

peter part of the value of the switches for me is I can place the speakers in a location that provides cleanest soundstage and imaging and then use teh controls to adjust the tonality without having to move them again. The same location rarely works out best for both without additional tweaks to room acoustics and or some other kind of room equalization.

Its just another convenient and effective means to an end. Many ways to skin any cat.

Thank you Mapman....

I can see how the switches adds a certain "ease of use" for most people, and being
able to shape the tone curve to your needs and environmental complications is very
satisfying.
Im coming from the school of change the environment to meet my needs kind of guy.
with that said I'm old enough that Loudness buttons, tone controls, and other secret sauce
was part and parcel in most pre-amps or receivers.

As for these switches........got to be honest Mapman, nothing good can come from
adding these in the audio circuit, it might sound "fine" but every time the audio signal is processed "shaped" filtered or otherwise manipulated to meet a certain criteria, a sonic degradation will be the end result. I do love the concept of the Ohm's and I know that deep
inside of the crossover is a path, a pure path a path of no resistance, adding some thing to the music that can be explained as........ Nothing, nothing at all my friend.

If the speakers a boomy, pull them away from the corners, back walls or any other
room boundaries. If the sound harsh, you might need to soften the surfaces in the room
add art, plants or area rugs for a less sibilant perspective. Etc etc

So looking at these switches, the surface area, and quality of the the said part
I hate to say it but all those expensive speaker cables are funneled in to a switch
with the surface area of (maybe) 30 gauge wire or worse. We will find out when I take one apart later today.

Its late enough that I can start doing some tone sweeps without hearing from some
upset teenagers lol ......🇸🇪 

I have not looked at the innards of my Walsh F5 Series 3 speakers since they arrived.

Cab came in separate box from driver (which connected via a single connector and mounts using 4 wing nuts that I do tighten on occasion) and separate box for the cover. Been too busy listening (and tweaking elsewhere as needed). Must be fun though tearing these things apart to see what makes them tick. Mine have original refurbed OHm F cabinets probably from the 1970s which were pretty darn heavy I must say as I recall from having to lug them downstairs to their new home.

They sit on easy to move and lock casters so size and weight has not been an issue since when tweaking placement. Very practical!

Floor is concrete foundation with thin dense padding and carpet. No need for additional platform there.

With my smaller Walsh 2 size models upstairs, I set those on Auralex subdude platforms which cost about $100 pair and work great to clean up the bass (by isolating from lively floors there).

No doubt setting most any speaker on an acoustically inert platform however one achieves it is a good move, but even more so perhaps with the bottom ported OHMs.

I do value the castors and level adjustment switches on my F5s. They make it much easier to get the speaker tuned into the room properly which is always task #1 for best performance out of most any speaker. That alone makes my OHMs hard to ever replace in my challenging (and not dedicated) L shaped room. Not an issue with headphones of course. :^)

I too tend to favor simplicity in design but the F5s sound pretty spot on as I have them set up so for me at least the value of the onboard level adjustments outweigh any possible downside. The F5s and smaller Walsh 2 models with same driver design but smaller (8" versus 12") driver and no switches tend to sound pretty much alike when set up well in the same room (I’ve actually done this comparison) so the switches are a net + for me. Definitely one of those things where YMMV.

I fell asleep on the sofa....

2am it was, YouTube blaring in the background, I think I started a RMAF round table, discussing.........???

Anyway I had stared at a plate of proverbial spaghetti for 2 hours, my kids stopping by asking if I built it, my wife reminding me that I bought it!!!
The bowl of Italian delish was nothing but a crossover from Brooklyn. In Sweded we would say "Vad i helvete".

Pictures would say more than I could ever convey on these pages
but in the spirit of the season I will abstain from showing the mess
on these virgin pages. 

I can totally see JS sitting in a meeting at the factory floor discussing
(late seventies) how can we make the speaker more exciting, more options, wider, deeper, more holographic, better bass and what ever else. At this point most designers would have said something like...
We need to time align the cabinet, or let's try aluminum instead of paper. But the Ohm guys bless their heart said nahhh lets make the most complicated crossover.....EVER.......more switches, more hot melt glue and miles of wiring :( lol
The only thing missing was a bong hit for good measures.

A new day it is, and I will make effort to decipher the 13+1 wires
going on and out of the small switches. The other strange wiring mystery is the out of phase main lead ?? So I'll crack the other 
crossover to see if it's the same or something happened in the production. If anyone has any experience with the (switch magic)
circuit, feel free to chime in. 

My my personal philosophy is that less is more, less solder, less wiring, and higher quality parts.

Time for a double espresso......🇸🇪

That's some good Audio porn right there, Peterr53!  Keep the pics coming.  This is fascinating!

 Homemade tamales from my best friends wife...Oh baby

Finally got around to snap some shots of the project. 

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/ohm%202_zpsvedyc7rp.jpg.html?filters[user]=...

Here is an interior shot of the cabinet with a smattering of braces DIY style, no CNC machined anything, just zip zip on the chop saw.
If you look closely, you'll see some adhesive rubber gaskets...??
Great you say, until you'll realize that it's from the original driver config.
I.E. No one took the time utilizing the step of the edge to seal the cabinet properly...Sigh (or remove them).

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/ohm%201_zpsmsrrdv0n.jpg.html?filters[user]=... 

Cabinet on the concrete platform and custom stand off.
If weight is important, it has it, as it weighs close to 60lbs each.
Finish is an automotive dark grey high gloss. Most of it will change
as the project goes forward.

http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/peterhorvath6233/media/ohm%203_zpsknrvuofe.jpg.html?filters[user]=...

Closeup of the stand, this will change to be made from 100% stainless steel and not a blend of powder coating and SS.

Now Im going in to the World Head Quarters workshop...

Hejsan....

Just a little Swedish to start the post.
Sitting in the car with no music or talk radio is fantastic for some
deep thoughts, ideas or pure fantasies.... 😎

So I checked out the wall thickness of the speakers and realized
that I have a full 5/8" thickness, so what do you do to minimize
vibrations without spending the big dough? 
A few ideas popped in to my mind, the most drastically would be to build up another layer on the outside from mdf, but it adds bulk, and 
I already have a fantastic paint job that'll be ruined so forget that.
I could add slate on the inside walls, but that makes the speaker
volume smaller and the speaker heavier.....Man I feel like I'm overthinking things a bit, but damn I LOVE overthinking things lol.

Decided to go with cork 1/4" thick self adhesive, super easy to cut
shape and get in to nasty little crevices. I also got some polyester fill 
sheets that I'll glue to all the cross beams and sharp corners.
Im sure this will suffice to prevent extra reflections and vibrations
in the box.
Tomorrow I'll have time to run a sweep on the main driver to see where it starts to drop of frequency wise, so let's see if it goes to 
7k as I've read here on audio gone.

Gentlemen I will try to upload some images for your pleasure 
in a bit...🇸🇪

Hey guys....

Im not to worried about other rooms or listening positions, so I think ixney all the switches
will happen for sure. I just got a photobucket account and would love to share asap.
I also thinking about doing a YouTube video showing the speakers and maybe talking a little about my experience with the Ohm's......

Got to go to LAX...🇸🇪

peter if you have a way of posting some pictures I would love to see those.   You could start a virtual system here just for this.

peterr53 - Remember that there is really only one setting of the switches that works for each listener in a given room.  If you want, you could make your settings permanent and fixed, and eliminate the switches.  This would reduce the speakers' utility in other rooms or for other listeners, however.

Morning.....

Just woke up and all I could do was thinking about the speaker. What is that
crossover? or why is that crossover so damn complicated, is switches in the
audio path a good thing  (I honestly don't think so) but I might be wrong.
Would it be rational to simplify? would I see a gain in Transparancy? Or am I chasing
my tail? So I guess I'll make a flow chart were all the parts go and with that see if simplification is on the board. 

So the plan is to move the crossover either to a separate box outside the speaker
or install them on the bottom of the cabinet. Even though these are fairly large sized speakers space is not easy to come by due to the 4" tube and bracing.

peace out....🇸🇪

Back for a little update....

Got the cabinets all cleared out, vacuumed and prepped for sound deadening materials.
The "Cans" are taken apart and I finally figured out how he dampens and in the same time allows the cone to vibrate through the full frequency range, pretty cool indeed.

The more I'm considering a new design concept the more exiting it gets.
The thought is to move the switches and crossover down in to the cabinet, away from
magnets/drivers, and with that I can give the driver housing a new form factor. I will retain some perforated metal but I will use aluminum as is much deader, doesn't ring and it's also easier to form and anneal.
There will be no "Can" but a fresh new take on how I think it should look.
It could be Carbon Fiber, or Maple or both with my new matte blood red color scheme.
my bud the metal guy was here for Christmas and we will build the horizontal brace
from SS fully polished, vertical stand offs are also SS fully polished. I'm also considering a belt line right under the grille wrapping around the speaker also in SS.

This will be one sexy speaker when I'm done with it, it should look like it come out of a 
big manufacturers work shop all perfect....

Going to bed, more tomorrow I hope, and I told my son if a meteor hits me
go in the garage find the stuffing, the rest you can figure out.....lol 🇸🇪

Day One....

Surgery starts, and a few thoughts.

Any time I take something apart I have this feeling of doom and a sense of what the f.... am I doing.
But the feeling always get shrugged of' and a calm I can fix anything (or effit up) comes over me.....

A double Espresso gives me a shot of needed "Kick in the ass" and off I go.

To separate the "can" from the main cabinet is child's play, Four wing nuts and the innards reveal them selfs in all its.......?

OK so I know I had some resentment brewing as All I had seen previously was a black spray painted 2x4 brace and that was it                  *****(this is were I apologize for flying of the hook without looking closer)****

Normally you would see X amount of acoustic dampening  occupy the speaker cavity, but here you have a three inch thick layer of fairly dense what looks like compressed recycled denim insulation.
On top there's a few inches of polyester/Dacron fill capped with a 
fabric mesh. Clean and simple and helping the filler from caving in to the speaker cavity is the port tube and some cross members.

The port tube is four inches in diameter, but steps down to what look like three inches towards the end of the cabinet. The outer and inner tube construction resembles something called an anti reversion step in an exhaust manifold, a very smart way to prevent reversion allowing for a smoother and less turbulent air flow...cool.

Back to the bracing of the cabinet, as the rest of the speaker cabinet is pretty much beautifully built, they did take time to do some cross bracing through out the cabinet. A mix of soft pine and birch plywood braces from top to bottom is making sure the cabinet is stiff in all directions. I also know that the truncated pyramid/sloped cabinets do prevent a lot of standing wave issues. 

I will most likely remove all the filler and line some sound deadening material throug out inside cabinet walls, and the bottom
will get a layer off elastomer and foam to stiffen the bottom of the cabinet.

I finally got my listening panel together (my kids) to see if they preferred the speaker with or without the rear tweeters in action.
And......yes the loved it with the tweeter playing, alive, fun, and the best they sounded so far.

So the rear  tweeters are staying, and will be installed flush with the cabinet in conjunction with the Volume control. All this should look
primo and very integrated.

Back to the "CAN" staring at it I could come up with tons of cool ways to make it look high tech, stem punk, Star Wars, or what ever
super cool solution, but JS decided on Death Star black with no personality, oh well.

On the bottom of the Ohm driver is a perforated steel sheet cover.
why did he do this? The pice is ringing like a son of a bitch when you tap it, that can't be good in my book so I will remove it and hopefully improve the sound. 

The plate holding the driver is a 3/4" sheet of plywood and the "can"
is installed with what looks like sheet metal screws in to the plywood. It works but mechanically it kind of sucks. The idea is to
do a 3/4" plywood/ 1/4" thick steel plate sandwich with laser cut holes around the opening. Threaded holes will allow for much better mechanical coupling and adjustability.

The outside bottom of the cabinet, has enough depth that I can
add a flared port and some extra material to deaden the bottom a little more......

Any way, got to go and work on these babies for a bit......🇸🇪