Octave v70se OR v80se

The V80Se almost doubles the power output from the v70’s 70 watts per channel. The S/N ratio and dynamic are nearly identical. If your speakers are efficient, then the V70 is a good option. If you feel the need to splurge, and don’t want to concern yourself about overdriving the V70 when playing really loud for extended periods, than the V80 would be the better choice IMO. 

My suggestion would be to get the top of the line and more powerful model. Dynaudio like power. I also read in another thread that Octave responds very well to tube rolling with NOS Telefunken and Siemens tubes. If that's what you are inclined to try later.

Thank you both for your responses. The thing is that I understand that v80se is twice as much in power, and that dynaudio like power... however is the price difference of almost 3500$ worth it or not to go with the v80se. That’s the question I have in mind which I am unable to get an answer to. Would the v80se sound 'significantly' better at 50% or higher volumes when matched with the Countor 20s? May be that 3500$ gap can be filled with a black box? 

PM sent- danimaz
Happy Listening!

Octave makes supremely good amps. I had the 40 on loan for a few weeks with my KEF Ref One and it was the best I ever heard them. Heck the 40 is a beast and will dig your Dyns. 

I think, you will never know unless you try both in your room. They also have something called super black box, at least they used to have it. When it comes to cost difference, it becomes very subjective.
Top of the line models always get special attention, you may get better parts, tubes etc. Why not contact Octave and talk to them ? Maybe you'll get a better sense. There is a used Octave 70 SE for $5500 on Audiogon, by the way. With MC phono and black box.

Thanks inna.
Usually dealers don't have all the models to compare and that's the case here. The reason I don't want to talk to octave is I want to hear from customers to get their unbiased opinion. But u do have a point. It is subjective !

Yes, since dealers have to buy their demos, they'll buy 70 SE and say that 80 SE is even better. I might've simplified it a little, but it's hard to buy what you can't audition even when the models are close enough to each other. Anyway, $3500 is a significant amount except for the very few. Owners of the equipment will also have a bias, just a different one. And each entire system is often unique. I also like to watch interviews with chief designers of the brands on youtube, it might give me an insight of what they are up to.

That is a pretty large room for an amplifier with such limited output (only 70 watt *peak*). Unlike some here I do not believe that competently designed amplifiers used within their specifications have a sonic signature (and they most certainly should not). What I have experienced is that an amplifier without enough power does degrade the sound, by clipping and compressing the signal in more dynamic music.
One issue, however, that can degrade the sound is a load dependent frequency response. Tube amplifiers in particular suffer from this problem, with a response and hence a sonic character that can deviate far from neutrality/reality. Here, the definition of perfection is a response that is flat within 0.2 dB over much or all of the audible range. I am afraid a test of another Octave amplifier in Stereophile showed that at least that model suffered rather badly from this problem: https://www.stereophile.com/content/octave-audio-v-40-se-integrated-amplifier-measurements
Almost any solid state amplifier would be better than this, and such amplifiers do not even need to cost much. I recently bought a 2x250 watt Yamaha p2500s pro audio amplifier, and it beats this Octavo by a very wide margin, and for only 300 euro (about $350, yes indeed). See here for a test of the bigger P3500s: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p...
I am sure it will also sound far cleaner because of its hefty power output. I think it is time for a rethink. And if you want to spend money, get yourself a Benchmark AHB2 or a Bryston.

I also encourage you to follow @inna 's advice and call Octave. Many manufacturers are reasonable and you will learn a lot. If you find the person(s) you speak with to be over the top, then adjust accordingly. 

I would specifically want to know how the Super Black Box paired with the V70SE performs vs the V80SE alone.

You may also want to reach out to the reviewers of both directly.

Both the V70se and V80se are excellent IA's. I used to own a V70se and later the V110 with the black box. I also had Dyn C1's and later the Signatures. I had an in-home demo of the V40se for a week. As you move up the line there is a bit more control in the music. IMO the black box or super black box is a must. Lowers the noise floor quite a bit and provides a touch more headroom. I have not heard the V80se only the V80. I got out of tubes just before the V80se came out. The V80 had better transformers. One nice thing about the V110 is it has a switch on the back to change the plate voltage down to accommodate tubes like EL34's 6550's and KT88's that way you are not limited to KT120's. Honestly I hated the KT120's. I'm guessing the V80se also has it so your not limited to KT120/150. I did find Ei KT90's worked great and sounded better at the higher plate voltage.
Per Andreas the super black box was designed for speakers with multiple drivers. I never tried the SBB with my C1's but my friend with the a V80 - BB and Dyn Sapphires demoed a SBB. the difference was IMO was huge. So I can't say what gain would be had with the C20's.

@david_ten I would say the V80se would out perform the V70se with the SBB.

The beauty of tubes is if you ever want to change up the sound signature just swap out some tubes instead of buying a new amp. When I had the C1's I rolled many different tubes and found the original Tung Sol 6550 black plates sounded the absolute best to me and my dealer. BUT when I decided to upgrade my Dyn C1's for Raidho D1's I hated the the TS 6550 bp's. I liked the Ei KT90's much better with the D1's. Now with the Dyn's the V70se or the V110 never ran out of 'steam' when pushed extremely hard. But with the Raidho's they would only when pushed hard. Maybe the SBB would have helped.


So I would go with the V80se and consider a BB at a later time.

@xti16   Thank you very much for your detailed response. 

Given your experience with Octave, do you have any thoughts on the other German tube integrated: Lyric Audio? Thanks.

No I don't. I think another thing that has to brought up is the protection the Octave has to offer and soft start circuitry. It's second to none IMO. I had a few tubes 'arc over' and NO damage to any circuitry. Biasing tubes is very easy too. If I had a complaint regarding the V70se or V110 is swapping out the 'little' tubes. Hard to get a hold of. Not a problem with the V80. Another feature that could be taken either way was the auto shut down to standby when no music is present for about 10 min.

@xti16 Thank you for the additional points. Very helpful and good to know.

@willemj
'It will sound cleaner because of hefty power output' 'Yamaha'? Your kidding right? 

I had the V110 and really like it, very musical and easily beat AR and CJ.  The V80SE is supposed to be better than the V110 plus it has the KT150's which to my ears are more musical than the KT120's.

Andreas is a honest and straight forward guy.  When I was checking out his Jubilee series, I asked him whether he would recommend the regular Jubilee series or Jubilee SE series and he told me that I didn't need the SE's power since my speakers were efficient.  He could have easily tried to sell me the more expensive Jubilee SE series but he did not.

What is the current price of V80 SE without black boxes ?

danimaz, are you sure about V70SE, this looks too low ?
$9500 for V80SE is about the same as VAC Sigma integrated.

Hey! I'm an octave user as well but only the HP500se pre, although i've i have heard quite a few octave amps on various setups.
I think XTi16 has summed it up very well.
They first question you have to ask yourself here is are you happy with the V70se with 6550 tubes in your set up? do feel the need for more power or a different tonal signature?
If not then get it with a SBB straight away, but it you feel that it's not floating your boat then the choice of V80se is more obvious,which in my opinion is a better amp. The SBB can always be purchased latter.
Hope it helps.
All the best
Cheers

Dan those prices may be euro's. Right before I traded in my V110 Octave dropped its pricing about 1000 to reflect the drop in the euro. So add approx 1.18% for USD
I did find this with Google but I don't see a datehttp://www.music2.nl/octave-audio-tube-amps/pricelist-octave/

Thanks everyone.
I have decided to go with the Octave v70se!
V80se is an excellent unit no doubt but reality is that it is out of my range or else I would have gone with it.

Why no v110se? Two reasons:

1. I heard the V110 (non SE version) and I did not like it as much as the v70se. It was punchy and felt powerful but it was a bit boomy and not as refined as the v70se. I have not heard the v110se btw... but heard the v110 (non SE version) and it sounded a bit too boomy and not as refined as the v70SE. PLUS it is also out of my range!

To my ears v70se and the tubes it comes it are an excellent match for the c20s!

One more thing:
I heard the Pass Labs INT - 60 with my c20s! It is a very good amplifier. A bit more on the relaxed side of the spectrum. Or may be I am not a huge fan of warm laid back sound. I don’t know what it is. To me it did not sound anything like a $9,000 amp. However the Octave v80SE DID :-)...

Congratulations on your new acquisition. Please do post impressions once you have some time with the V70SE in your system. 

Congrats Dan - Did the V110 have the KT120's. I thought the V110 was punchy boomy and not as refined. But like I had mentioned the KT120's were the culprit. By the time I got it I already had many different output tubes. Which tubes came with the V70se. Mine came with the SED 6550's and later purchased some SED KT88's. SED is no longer in production. The SED KT88 is a warmer sound and the 6550 is more linear. That said I have GEC KT88's that are very linear where the original TS 6550bp is much warmer. Guess what I am saying tubes from different manufacturers sound very different.Again Congrats

Thanks!
The unit has not arrived yet and once I get v70se settled in I'll post my feedback.

xti16 I think they were kt120 but I'm not too sure 

The KT120's were standard with the V110 when I got mine. Higher plate voltage and higher grid voltages made the for extra 40W. Other than that it was made off the V70se chassis with a switch to select the higher voltages.

Thanks! for the update -danimaz

what other gear is in your system?
Happy Listening!