Not Thrilled with Vandersteen 2CE Sigs - where is the first place to work on?

Do not mistake advancement of an audio system, with its thin sliced improvements in sound quality, for resolution of displeasure of the character of speakers. This applies to any brand and model of speakers.

Confusion on that point can be costly.   :)

Owned 2CE years ago.  If they are uninspiring,  move on. I found them over time to be too wooly, flabby. Learning experience.   

Nothing was done in repositioning that can't be done with any other speaker. It's not the long term solution if you are not liking a speaker. Within a week you will adjust to it and you'll be back at the same place again with criticism.

 There are many thin slice ways to affect speakers. That doesn't resolve the larger issues with them. Just because there was a change doesn't mean a particular speaker is anywhere near the potential ideal. This is one of the biggest mistakes that is made continuously. It does set up a sale for the dealer, and if he has put in the time and effort, he deserves that consideration. You would get superior sound moving up the line, so that is another alternative. But, until you get other speakers in there to compare head to head, you have no idea what you're doing. The dealer will push his line, no surprise. 

So, you will be throwing money at it, with an upgrade, new cables, etc. That is an expensive way to learn, but there are not too many other options when one does not have experience. Try to keep it as fun, not frustration. Vandersteen, especially lower end, is a polite speaker that will not offend. Whether it is involving enough over timer you remains to be seen.   :)

Of course speakers sound better when you don't place a barrier in front of the wave launch. This is basic and it is one of the fundamental problems with the Vandersteen line that uses socks. It's also a major problem for the Magnepan line. Paradigm has tried to make sticking a fat perforated plate in front of a driver a positive. Pathetic. 

I owned the 1s and the 2s, and the 1s do not have the flabbiness of the 2s. Why has not the dealer shared that Richard himself used 1s with subs instead of the 2s? At least, that is what my Vandy dealer at the time told me. 

It's pathetic when as significant a shortcoming as the negative impact of a grill cannot be admitted. Instead, irrelevant illustrations, equivocations, etc. are used to downplay it. The fact is, the grill is necessary to allow for a cheaper build, and it is ALWAYS a problem sonically. This is so whether a Magnepan or Vandersteen, both of which I have used/owned, models having permanent grills. Now, I would not own either company's products with permanent grills, as it so degrades sound quality. 

What a ridiculous argument regarding thinness of grills. As though the grills of other competitors are oh, so much worse. Perhaps computer analysis of the fabric thickness in comparison to other brands was done to vest the Vandersteen grills. This is what is called an excuse, diversion. So, the thin, see through grills of the King Sound King III ESL that I reviewed for Dagogo.com and own are of little consequence? If you can see through it, the grill is to be negligible? This is horrid advice, and I counter with; one of the fundamental reasons the 2CE was not great at resolution and definition was the permanent grill. It became obvious when switching to different speakers sans grills that it was a design problem. YMMV, as the say. I suspect some will adamantly disagree. So be it. 

Remember, the goal of some here is to defend the seemingly unimpeachable sound of Vandersteen at all costs. Just like Magnepan. Allowance must be given to dismiss and diminish all claims of serious sound quality issues. No one is allowed to give hard analysis of the shortcomings of the lower end models; they are sacrosanct. Value demands a pass be given to all potential design issues and shortcomings. 

The fact is, you select these lower models and you are assured average HiFi sound. Nice, pleasant, but nowhere near upper end sound. This is to balance some of the ridiculous, fawning enthusiasm completely out of touch with reality as regards the universe of HiFi speaker performance. 

JohnnyR, good response, and points well taken. :) Forgive me for coming on too strong. When I argue points in regard to technical aspects of design and system building, I can become intense. I think your reply was on target and well balanced.  

Yes, I am aware of the insides of the speakers and that they are not finished. You make the one defensible argument for the grills; more money put into the internals, and in that Richard is correct, it’s a solid design argument. That can be a defensible decision to select a speaker with a grill. In fact, if I were in a situation where I was forced to use a budget speaker, the lower end Vandys would be high on my list of options for that reason - despite the grill cloth finish. (I hope the community sees that this does not conflict with my previous statement that I would not now use a speaker with a permanent grill).

Thankfully, I do not have to compete in the speaker market! Some of these guys are killing themselves - I know the situation with some smaller speaker makers who do not have the advantage of economy of scale, and it’s might tough. I admire any speaker maker, including Vandersteen and Magnepan, who strive to give a good performance for the dollar. That is never in dispute with me. As someone who was at one time a Mid-Fi hobbyist, I will always be grateful for the option of a HiFi speaker at a good value.