2. amps-preamps
  3. 137027-115924

Non-audiophile needs help with older system.

I recently inherited a number of 10-15 year old high end audio components. I am not an audiophile but do appreciate high end sound. I do not have a dedicated room for this system. But, it was free and I'd like to figure out how to use it without spending a lot of money on it. I am not looking for audio perfection, just to optimize what I have. This will be used for two-channel music only. I'll try to describe the setup as best I can but I'm sure I do not know the proper terminology.

The components are as follows:

Pair of Aerial Acoustics floor speakers. Towers. No model number. I'm thinking 7B maybe. Have contacted Aerial to see if they can help me identify them. They have a tweeter, midrange and two woofers. Rear bass port. Separate connectors for woofers and midrange/tweeter. 

Madrigal Proceed HPA 2 amp. 250 watts. Weighs a ton.There are very large shielded(?) 'biamped'(?) cables from the amp to the speakers.

Audio Research LS16 Stereo PreAmp. There are large shielded XLR cables from the pre amp to the amp.

Onkyo home theater 'receiver' that I do not like. Remote is lost. Set up is tedious.

There is a very basic Arcam CD player and a Sony phono.

I've got it all hooked up. Bass seemed poor just running CD through pre-amp. If I run CD player to Onkyo to pre amp and adjust bass with Onkyo the sound is incredible (to me).

This system will be used for casual listening, CDs, records, radio, and iTunes via cell phone. I know that is like using a Porsche 911 to get groceries....but it was free. And there will be times when I can sit down for serious listening but that will be infrequent.

I plan on replacing the Onkyo home theater receiver with a basic FM Tuner/Bluetooth/receiver (probably a Sony). This will be for radio and iTunes so even though it is probably not a quality unit I don't think that will matter since the input (iTunes) won't be all that great anyway.

My main questions have to do with how to route the CD, the tuner and the phone through the system.

The preamp has RCA input connectors for all three. But if I run the CD and the phono directly through the preamp there is no way to adjust bass and treble and as mentioned running the CD directly through the preamp resulted in great high and midrange quality but low bass. So should I run the CD and phono into the receiver I'm going to buy and then just run the receiver out to the preamp in?

Sorry for the long post and appreciate any help you guys can give.

George


n80

Showing 8 responses by atmasphere

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
Here's a tip- if the bass of the turntable isn't as good as the digital, there's something wrong. IME its usually better, since vinyl usually isn't as compressed as CDs, since there's no expectation that the LP will be played in a car.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
It might be. Getting the right blend is usually the issue, but once you get that then you find out how much more interesting certain pieces of music actually are :)  It can be nice for higher volumes as well...
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
@n80 the new Technics SL1200G is a killer turntable in that it outperforms many 'tables that are much more expensive.

You might look into a tube phono section for it. You may find that you change your mind about 'getting much into vinyl'...
The rabbit hole looms
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
EDIT: Never mind. I see that many subwoofers have left and right speaker inputs and a single left/right RCA for low level input from preamp. So I'm assuming you'd just piggy back over the speaker wires at the amp and run them to the subwoofer.

I guess I'll have to make sure the subwoofer can handle the 250 watts from the Proceed amp.
Most subs have an attenuator circuit at their input to deal with this.
"It appears, though, that your main issue with the ARC preamp is the apparent lack of bass. From your descriptions of your prior systems, I’m wondering if it might be an issue of what you’re used to. "
Just my personal 2 cents, but IME ARC preamps sound a bit dry or conservative in the bass. Add to that the preamp has been sitting a while and its easy to imagine it being a bit deficient. Defiantly let it play a while before doing anything about it!
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
Many subs take their input off of the speaker terminals of the amplifier driving the main speakers. You then adjust the sub's controls for a proper blend.
Your room at home sounds like it could work well. You may get some brightness off of the brick- have to try it and see. If so, carpet on the floor, a couch, curtains- things like that can help. Have fun!
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
3) Radio Tuner- Nobody want's them anymore. I just gave away a great Proton Tuner. You can find them on craigslist for a song.
I better get looking. I still play the radio on my system! Right now I running a modified Dynaco.
I agree getting the Onkyo out of the system will help its overall sound. I also think there is no reason at this point to suspect filter capacitors in the power supplies of either the amp or preamp. You can run the tape outputs of any receiver into the ARC Auxiliary inputs no worries.

There is this thing that is well-known in the high end audio world called 'WAF': Wife Acceptance Factor. If you have a room at your regular home that is yours, that would be the typical place a system like this might reside if the WAF does not allow it in the living room. This is a pretty common phenomena. The thing is, the better you get the system to sound, the more likely your wife might want to hear it. Women often have less damaged hearing than men, so they can often hear high frequency artifacts (harshness and brightness) that are known irritants! This is a bit less true in the last 20 years or so as women have been making their way into noisier work environments. But as a general rule if your wife does not want the stereo playing, its a sign that either she really doesn't like your musical tastes (or lack thereof) or she is hearing problems in the system that you don't.

If its the latter, I would not play the system for her until its had time to wake up, which might take a good 200 hours of playing time. When you are at the cabin I would have the system on the whole time, even if not playing anything as this will help. If the former, you're screwed and you will have to limit your playing time to when she is not around.  Good Luck!




atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 

I am starting to think that speaker position and possibly the fact that all of this stuff had been unused for a few years are all part of the problem.

When I first assessed the system I had the speakers in the middle of the floor a few feet apart. My wife thought the bass sounded fine but it seemed 'thin' to me. Once I got them positioned more reasonably, let the system warm up and played them for a while they did sound a lot better. And again, I'm not an audiophile and I may just be used to stuff with too much bass.

With the bass turned up a little on the Onkyo home theater system everything sounded awesome. I sat and listened to several albums of different types. When I went back to my Bose bookshelf speakers with an old 25 watt Toshiba receiver they sounded pretty bad in comparison whereas they sounded fine before I got this high end stuff.
indeed. If you think its worth it to do something to make it sound better now that you've got a glimpse of the greatness that lies within, you do indeed have some audiophile tendencies stirring :)

If you want a little tip from someone that's been at it a long time: have fun. That's it- just have fun with it and don't get obsessive. If you find that you like what you hear, there is a whole world out there of stuff you can get and things you can do that will continue to make improvements... just keep the fun part in mind, and enjoy the music.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,113 posts
 
You might want to move the speakers closer to the wall behind them. This will help them play bass. It may cause the soundstage to not be as palpable- you'll have to listen and see how you like the tradeoff if there is one. Corners help speakers play bass. Putting the speakers so they fire into the long dimension of the room helps them play bass. Long speaker cables reduce bass, so do lighter gauges. So you might want to have the amp fairly close to the speakers if you can arrange it.

You are better off not needing tone controls if possible- it will sound better for that. But IMO, the ARC preamps are not particularly good at playing bass- to me they have always had a bit of a dry sound. If the equipment has been sitting a while (a couple of years) it may need to play for quite a few hours before the bass wakes up, so I would play it for a while before considering any equipment changes if its been sitting unused.
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