New Townshend Rock 7 owner

@sprocket75,

Both the 3mm & 5mm mats will require VTA adjustment and attention to the arm trough height like I mentioned above.

@slaw 

Thanks for all the feedback!

I was thinking about starting with the FF 3M Matt ? 

I assume with the 5M FF would require adjustment to the VTA height? 

@sprocket75,  

The other issue you’ll encounter is the height of the damping trough. It will need to be raised some. My FFM is 5mm. I found a suitable spacer to go at the troughs’ pivot point. I found it easier to take the locking mechanism out of play as well. If you use a clamp you’ll just be re-connecting the lp to the bearing. YMMV.

Safe? Well as long as you don’t hit the record, all will be well.

With the mat in play, no part of the music suffered. I noticed the most how much cleaner/clearer/more musical the bass was. The bass is already a strong suit. A while back I tried my Stillpoints LP1 on top of the mat and that gave the music a greater foundation, increased solidity.

@slaw 

Thanks!

I was worried since the spindle would not go all the way thru, with the FF Matt and record, if it would be possible and safe?

since my spindle is threaded, was thinking about getting a small stud to use in it's place (without Clamp)?

What differences did you notice with the Funk Firm platter Matt?

I’ve used them together for a long while now and you’re right, the spindle sinks below the mat. I’ve been eyeing lps to get them centered with no weight and it works. It’s not ideal I suppose. I have a Delrin rod I’ve meant to thread on one end to use when I go back to that TT .

The positive effect of the spindle not protruding through the mat is you’ve essentially decoupled the lp from the bearing. That’s always a good thing.

Does anyone know if a Funk Firm platter Matt will work on n a Rock 7?

The Rock 7 does not your typical platter spindle length and that was my concern 

Thanks

This was my first experience with this. My understanding is the ADS will work with any AC synchronous motor. The Merlin power supply takes the AC and turns it to DC then back to AC. I believe this is how it works. So my feeling is my motor is an AC motor, with a different pulley. You could call Max and ask him in person?

@slaw i have the Rock 7 with the standard motor (round belt) do you  know if the updated Merlin motors still available .

would the VPI ADS work with stock motor?

Above...The better way of describing what I’m hearing in the lower bass is more precise/musical than before. Much better at presenting the delicacies of minute bass notes. Probably a lower noise floor contributes.

I’m having some great listening lately. I’d like to explain why?

I have the Merlin power supply.

I’ve thought for a long time about putting in my VPI ADS ahead of the Merlin for a while. Why? I’m not sure, but I’ve not been happy with the speed stability.

I’ve been enjoying some Sade tonight...
Diamond Life...OP
Lovers Rock... MOV
Promise ... OP/gold stamped promo

Since inserting the ADS, I’ve noticed a more airy presentation. Seems like the notes are hanging onto the electronics even less now. After an hour of "on time", ( the ADS was a brand new unit) the bass seems slightly less bloated. (Not that it was bloated before)

The sonic differences in these three lps are still there but the things I disliked the most about all three have been minimalized. There is an overall smoothness that makes me want to use the word (analog). A warmth that just draws me in.

I had wondered if these components are compatible. They are running very cool, if that is any indication?

Thoughts?

It's been quite a while. I've been thinking about my current set-up and my ongoing TT project. One of the big issues that TT manufacturers have trouble dealing with is decoupling the lp from the bearing. How does one remove the resonance of the bearing from the lp? I think I've done it by accident on my Rock 7.

As owners know, the way the platter is made on this table is unique in how it accepts the clamp that Townshend makes. I use two mats. One a Funk Firm 5mm Achromat w/ my 1mm flexible vinyl mat. I think I wrote about it earlier. These mats bring the lp above the top of the female receptacle of the spindle acceptable Townshend clamp. 

When I put on a lp, I eye it for on-center play. So, essentially, I'm decoupling the lp from the bearing. Right? I believe that the positive effects of the mats are producing great sound in conjunction with this bearing/lp decoupling.

lohanimal,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I haven't asked or looked to see what brand of motor I have. I did notice the vibration it made. This may be partly  due to the way it mates to it's (level adjustable) housing. I did notice when I installed the Mark Baker belt this vibration lessened and the musical presentation was noticeably quieter.

I too was a little concerned with the speed being slightly fast and the Merlin not having a pitch control. For now, it just sounds so great that I really don't think about it.

robes,

I meant to say above that the DIN plug is on the motor side.

I wrote this about my Townshend Elite Rock 2:

I bought a Townshend Elite Rock Mark 2 with a Pickering XSV4000 cartridge and a Mission/Jelco arm.

I always had a soft spot for the Townshend since I was a teenager, and when the chance came up to buy one I snapped it up. I did a short review elsewhere in Audiogon.

I could not find a Townshend Rock Reference for sale they are very rare and the owners have the good sense to hold onto theirs.

I have the good fortune of having a Townshend Seismic Stand (the air pump type). This meant that installing the 'bellows' suspension from the Reference was not going to make a huge difference.

What I found to be holding the deck back was the drive unit. It uses an airpax/premotec motor running from an on off mains switch. Townshend make a merlin power supply, but there were a couple of problems that I perceived:
1. an original one wasn't available
2. it is an AC regenerator that is simply a single phase design
3. there is no pitch control

Now, I tried to use the drive unit from my amazon model one, this is battery powered and 'off-board'. I hooked it up and the belt kept falling off because the platter on the Townshend is angled.

Now my memory when auditioning decks was that the DPS 2 had superb timing and a solidity to the sound belying its' size. This was largely attributable to the Berger Lahrs motor that it uses.

Earlier this year someone had for sale an original DPS2 motor and power supply for sale. He was getting the three phase DPS power supply and motor upgrade. I snapped it up for a decent price.

Now the identity of the berger lahrs motor was known to me, and Schneider sent me a copy of the specs. It is much more torquey than the premotec, but is also higher RPM at 50hz. I must say that the single phase power supply still cogged a fair bit. The DPS has a unique 'resistive' bearing whicch I couldn't emulate with the Elite, so I bought some very thick grease from Lucas Oil. Quick digression but i have an amusing tale about the grease purchase. I was at my local copy shop getting a cartridge refill when I mentioned to the guy that I had to shoot off on a 20 mile trip before a motor parts shop stocking the said oil was about to shut. Lo and behold the copyshop owner went to the back of the store and returned with a new pot of Lucas Extra Heavy (the thing I wanted to buy). He said it was mis-delivered to him and sold me the tub for £5.00 (retail is over £15.00.

Anyway, back on track. My next 'upgrade' was not so much an upgrade as a necessity. This is the platter. As I said earlier the Townshend Elite has an angled platter, and the DPS runs a belt around the circumference. So after a series of google searches, and emails I got Tizo Acetyl to make a platter to my spes. The platter now being acrylic.

The belt. It's a real pain in the neck to get a peripheral belt. I ordered one that was the wrong size (too long) and then when I asked for an exchange or discount for a further belt the answer was a disappointing 'no'. Please don't make my silly mistake.

Anyway I tried the belt, and the platter was running fast. Not only that but there was palpable cogging. I am sure the DPS bearings rids the problem.

So this got me thinking and researching again. I considered the Heed Orbit amongst other AC power supplies, along with the VPI, and Linn Armageddon. I eventually chanced upon a power supply from a really nice German chap called Dr Berhard Fuss. He was able to custom make a power supply, that had switchable speed and also had accurate pitch control.

Bringing it all together this last week was a realisation of a mini dream for me.

The original deck had the inherent flaw of anything using the phillips/airpax/premotec motor. first of all the buzz in the motor imparts a mini haze into the overall sound. Yes it's musical, but it lacks detail (like a slightly out of focus picture). Not only that but image stability is wayward - probably due to the lack of torque leading to the collapse of image and slurring on busy passages. I know many say that Linns are famous for 'timing' but I am not sure if this is due to over enthusiasitic revving like a small car revving as opposed a real toquey V8 brute to power through.

So what were the results?

I think that my approach has fulfilled everything I set out to achieve, and possibly a bit more.

I have to say that the sound is both more digital and musical at the same time.

To my ears the most noticeable thing was that things just locked into place in the way a camera snaps things into focus. The noise floor dropped as well. This led to much better dynamic contrasts from quiet to loud passages. It was a  bit shy of my Amazon Model One in this regard which has an exceptionally low noise floor by virtue of it's DC Motor and battery power supply. When this happens the images also become more stable and solid. Rather interestingly the images seemed smaller at first. On closer listening i realised this was because the better defined delineation meant that there was less splashing and creep into other elements in the soundstage. Bass was going deeper than before, but was tighter as well.

The best thing about the sound was that things projected more, and everything fealt more live than before. I always thought, and took the view that when things became more accurate in timing, there will be tendancy to say things are more CD like. In simplistic terms this may be true. But the projection meant there was a more connected 'live' feeling that made things so much more musical and organic. One often expects that where a turntable goes more CD like it becomes: colder, more grey, more clinical. In this case nothing could be further from the truth. The sytem was more musical in the way I was more engaged in the sound produced.


The other parts in my vinyl set-up are as follows:
- Vendetta SCP2a (recapped with new IC's by Brett Hunnisett)
- Lavardin IT amp
- Lavardin interconnect
- Nordost Heimdall loudspeaker cable
- Yamaha Ns1000m speakers

I have other upgrades to try out, such as:
Nordost Tyr tonearm cable
Moerch DP6 Arm
Transfiguration Temper V
Helius Omega tonearm

I also need to try out some polycarbonate arm boards, possibly others as well...

Lessons???

First and foremost a single element of improvement won't do the trick alone. In my case a change of motor meant new pulleys, a new belt. new power supply and even a new platter.

Secondly don't be scared to put your theories into practice - trust your ears.

Third - it ain't gonna be cheap - don't skimp. that said the mods will be worth it.

Fourth - I do not think the mods are too deck specific - give them a try as well.

Hi Robes,

I purchased my  Rock 7 as a package deal that included the DC motor/power supply. Mine is a later version that has a different bearing design as well. The power cord on my TT has a DIN plug on the power supply end so one can't go buy a replacement off the shelf. The motor on mine has a conical pulley and uses a flat belt. So the TT in the review you mentioned is the early Rock 7 and has none of Max's later thoughts/upgrades. The upgrades I've made to my Rock 7 are the Mark Baker belt and the two mats. Total cost under $150.00. Total % of increased enjoyment is off the charts!

My mentioning all of the clamps/weights I've used were in conjunction with my two mats. These mats alone or together bring the TT's performance up substantially. (I've never used or tried a periphery ring weight).

The last time I had my Classic 3 Sig SE in my system using my 1mm mat, it was an ear opener. The sound became more naturally expressed with much more musical bass, allowing me to hear/follow more low end info with greater clarity and expression. When I added the SS weight with the mat, the sound became more strident, less natural. This same difference was experienced with any of my other weights/clamps to certain degrees.

If you haven't already, you should read the Stereophile review of the Rock7/Funk Firm FXR.

I'd like to hear from you when you find out if the trough assembly is available and at what cost. I sincerely doubt if Max would be willing to work out a mounting system for another TT.

Hello Slaw-

   I met you on the " VPI 2nd Pivot to 3D" thread where I suggested upgrading a VPI Prime by adding the Townshend damping trough to it. I came across this review Article: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/townshend.htm 

  The article scarred me off of the Rock 7 and got me thinking of the above fix to the Prime. I copied the paragraph below which steered me away from the TT. Key was the added expense of a DC motor/power supply rather then the expense of just throwing $$ at cords, which I feel would be my scenario also. The reviewer highly suggests that the Rock 7 needs to be setup with help from a dealer versed in the matter below. My big problem is living in an isolated area at high elevation in NW Montana with a dealer probably close to 1000 miles away- not going to happen. Hey, I got electricity.
  Anyhow, hard to imagine such a messed-up setup and easiest get around cost $1900.00- Any comments on this ??
  I'm going to contact Townshend to see if a damping trough can be purchased alone for incorporation onto another TT (VPI Prime), and the expense that would go with it.


 The following taken from  Mike Wechsberg's "Positive Feedback Issue 62":

"I was not prepared to spend as much time as I did finding the right power cord to use with the Rock 7's motor. It is vital to find the right power cord for your Rock 7 turntable if you want to experience the brilliant sound it is capable of, because, for reasons I don't understand, the sound varied radically with choice of power cord. Some multi-kilobuck power cords I had in for review made LPs sound terrible (lack of focus, flaccid bass, grunge, etc.). Yet, in other positions in my system these same power cords made wonderful music. I ended up using a quite inexpensive PS Audio power cord with the Rock 7, because it resulted in very impressive sound. I eventually settled on a Kubala-Sosna Emotion power cord that allowed the magic of the turntable to shine through without compromise. However, the Kubala-Sosna cord may, or may not be the right one for you. I haven't noticed anyone else commenting on the Rock 7 mentioning this odd setup quirk (though Dan Meinwald alerted me to this phenomenon when I first started using the turntable), which puzzles me. If you decide to buy the Townshend, please work with a dealer to try out a range of cords from different manufacturers before you finalize the setup. Alternatively, Townshend has recently come out with an optional DC motor for the Rock 7 which comes with a substantial regulated power supply. I heard this configuration at Dan Meinwald's home recently, and it worked well with a plain old hardware store power cord. Since the DC motor/power supply adds $1900 to the price of the turntable, one has to choose between the cost of the motor vs. the cost of a potentially expensive power cord."

Thanks, Robes

bdp24,

Your choice of tonearm for your VPI is interesting. I've owned a VPI HW-19 MkIV/Et 2.5 for over 2 decades.

After changing to my current tts, I now realize my past history was, while interesting, a venture in "not really moving forward in any meaningful way". I now understand the limitations of an air bearing tonearm on a sprung suspension TT. The ET has limitations as well, despite of other postings.

The Trans-Fi is a different animal. The ET is a tale of "the tail wagging the dog". I now realize this.

My history with the ET is, clean/stable air is of most importance. This is expensive! How does the Trans-Fi differ in this area?

FWIW, here are my findings with two different mats:

I came across a material, solid vinyl, no backing, flexible, that is 1mm thick. It has one side smooth and one side with hundreds of slightly raised, symmetrical "bumps". I use it with the smooth side facing the platter.

I've trimmed it so there is a 1&1/4" hole in the center and the outer edge is around 11& 1/2". This allows for the fact that most lps are thicker around the spindle area and it allows the mat to sit just inside of the raised outer edge of most vinyl records.

Positives:
(1) It is only 1 mm thick
(2) It is flexible so it can slightly conform to any irregularities
(3) It extends the Rock 7's attributes further

Negatives:
(1) It does have some static electricity issues that I negate with my Mapleshade gun on each side. (I believe this product is no longer offered?)

I first used it on my VPI Classic 3 Sig SE with surprising positive effect! I had since pulled that TT out of my system.

I hesitated to try it on the Rock 7 because I thought it probably would not have a positive effect since this TT's platter is suppose to mimic that of a vinyl record. I could not have been more wrong!

I have since purchased a Funk Firm Achromat (5mm version). This mat seems immune to static. I've tried both mats separate and together. My findings on the Rock 7 are, separately the thin mat sounds great and is a welcome addition to the Rock 7. The Achromat too, is another welcome addition. Then I tried them together. The thin mat under the Achromat,... Cha-ching! Absolutely wonderful! Even with the benefits of the trough on the Rock 7, the interface of the stylus to the record still benefits from this additional isolation.

In percentage terms, on their own, I'd give my thin mat a rating of 85% of the Achromat. Together, they work extremely well.

I'm close to finalizing my new wall mount system that will allow me to use both TTs. This will be beneficial for me to readily evaluate system changes.

Happy Listening!

bdp24, The reason I reached out was to see if you would be willing to try out my platter mat material. I think you'd approve. When you mentioned the VPI, it got me in seller mode. If you're interested, you can PM me.

bdp24, FWIW, I have some parts left off of my VPI HW-19 you may find helpful. I have a Mk IV plinth @ an original VPI (tall) dustcover. Maybe more stuff???

I have my highly modified base that includes Symposium Rollerblocks that greatly increased this TT's performance. Lots of stuff?

Slaw, I contacted Mark, and he unfortunately doesn't make the round-profile belt the Elite version (Mk.2) of the Rock uses. I got myself an HW-19 Mk.2 (acrylic armboard and platter platform) to play with until a Rock 7 comes my way. I may end up putting a Trans-Fi Terminator on it, as it is suppose to work unusually well with London/Decca pick-ups.

@bdp24, Did you ever buy the Mark Baker belt for your table? I've found a material that I'm using as a (mat) that surprisingly, works very well on my Rock 7 @ my VPI.

Not forgetting the almost entire elimination of arm-cartridge resonance, of course.

Some of you may be interested in how the trough produces the substantial reduction in bearing rumble and motor noise (i.e in the 20- 80Hz region) it does.

It's because the stylus 'sees' this noise coming from both the plane of the platter/record and from that of the deck of the headshell above it, 180 degrees opposed or 'mirrored' to the platter, hence there's a net phase-cancellation.

This isn't just theory - there's an article by Max Townshend floating around somehwere with measurements and spectrograms (with/without damper) - the reduction in spurious LF is not trivial. Many people have noticed and remarked on the quiet or 'dark' background produced by the various Rocks.

That's just gravy though - the real benefits are in the stability imparted by this removal of spurious LF at the stylus (effectively, locking together of cartridge and platter from 20Hz upwards) - improvement in bass fidelity, tracing and tracking, etc' etc'.

of coarse this assumes that the tt feet are tightened up as far as can go to the plinth.

Happy listening

Setting up your Rock 7: (the relationship of motor to platter, IE: a starting point.

I write this based upon my experiences so far...

What I find, sounds the best, based upon my trying different motor heights vs, platter...

You may be wondering, WTF?  Well, this does make a big difference my friends.

I've tried several motor heights vs it's relationship to the platter. In every mode, there was A difference. (You may prefer one to another). I'm just reporting that a difference is to be had via these (two relationships).

For those of you who may want to ascribe to my personal best..here you go..

Once you've aligned the motor housing with the platter and the belt is riding in the center of the sub-platter, and the belt on the pulley seems to be slightly above the conical part of the pulley.. you've come (very far).

Now on to the best sounding setting:  Assuming you have a visual "sight line" in relationship to the underside of the platter to the top of the pulley...the top of the pulley should be ALMOST level with the underside of the platter. Maybe VERY slightly above or VERY slightly below.

If you've achieved this, you're going to hear THE best sound. Simple, right?

In theory yes, in practice, it takes a little more involvement. Some may think, that I'm not serious,...I ask those, this.... "You want me on that wall... you need me on that wall"..

Happy listening

BTW and FWIW, I'm finding myself listening with my latest metal clamp (and my older expandable metal washer) I bought a few weeks ago for 97% of recordings. The clamp has Rock 7 printed on it.

I have been looking forward to this weekend for more great sounding tunes. I decided to try the recommended talc on the belt. I tried it this way on both sides of the belt and I was no longer connected to the music like I was last week.

I wiped off the talc and put on the same lp I had been listening to previously. There it is, I got it back... my connection to the music. The bass tightened up, the (energy) returned, my emotional connection to the music is back.

This, to me, is a substantial difference. So be forewarned.

Happy Listening.

kps25sc,

Your comments are really appreciated! I'd love to hear your impressions when you've heard the new belt.

Happy Listening.

Great thread Slaw, your enthusiasm is contagious !
I have always loved the trough turntables. The best I have heard where the Rock reference and the Maplenoll Ariadne Signature.
I  played  mostly  cd's the last 20 years and was dying to get back into vinyl a couple of years ago. I knew it had to be a trough tt, only one still in production was the Rock 7. I went to a dealer here in Denmark and heard a pretty bad demo. The Rock had a Rega arm with a budget cartridge, and the dealer sayd it sounded great, I did not agree. He was trying to sell me on an more expensive table, trying to push a  Feickert, I ended  up not buying anything. I then startet looking for a Rock Reference or a Maplenoll. Rock Reference don't come up for sale often and I found a Ariadne Signature first!
The trough makes such a big difference, great bass definition and depth. My table also has the sub platter under a 50 lb lead platter, I am going to order a Origin belt on your recommendation.
Keep up the postings, great inspiration!
Greetings from Denmark!

Thanks Slaw, I'll go to the OL site and order one. Thanks for the tip-off!

bdp24,

Yes it has a sub-platter. On OL's website, I don't recall a pre-made belt for your specific table but they will make one if it needs a different size. They give you two ways of measuring for a custom belt.

Remind me Slaw, as I have forgotten: Does the Mk.7 have a sub-platter under the 12" acrylic platter, around which the belt rides? My Elite Mk.2 does, and if the Origin Live belt is of a length for a smaller sub platter I gotta get myself one.

By the way...this belt has a two year warranty. IME, unheard of.

I think they are safe.

I have received my Origin Live belt and it's been in use for a few hours. I've read on this site about others' positive experiences with this belt. So, I expected to hear something good. What I did not expect was to be blown away by all of the ways this belt has changed the musical presentation and my enjoyment from listening now.

The paper that comes with the belt says to let it run in for an hour before hearing it in it's best light, (paraphrasing). I did that. What I noticed immediately without listening was how quiet it was. Upon touching the motor while running, there is noticeable less vibration. Now for the big test. (It seems that somehow the belt absorbs the motor vibrations without transferring them to the sub-platter).

My listening experience is now transformed. I realize that is a big word but it best describes the difference I'm hearing. The noise floor has been lowered dramatically. This allows for hearing nuances that I did not notice before or the ones I barely noticed before, being more easily heard now. The feeling of less electronics in the way of the music is there. I feel like I'm in the studio while listening to studio recordings. The stage seems to have been pushed back or maybe I should say in no way "in your face". (I listen in the near field in my small room.) The bass is much more musical and presented with greater authority and the entire low bass spectrum is of much more importance and meaningful than before.

The belt is shorter that the stock belt. This seems to have logical positive implications as well.

Did I say quiet? Yes the entire listening experience has a quieter background. I'd say in terms of a percentage of increased listening satisfaction, I'd give it around 30%+. This has to be one of THE best bang for the buck upgrades for a tt owner.

Thank you Origin Live!

alonski,

I finally received a new belt from Townshend. I ordered one from Origin Live as well the other day. Looking forward to comparing.

Are you saying you agree with the posts and you're a very happy Rock 7 owner, but you're selling it because you found something just as good?

Please clarify, do you like the Kuzma better?

I can wholeheartedly agree with the posts on this thread, as a very happy owner of a Townshend Rock 7, paired with a Helius Omega tonearm. For anyone who is interested, I just posted the combo for sale here, as I've recently acquired a Kuzma 4 Point. It is startling how difficult it has been to match the Rock 7/Helius combo...

alonski,

I'm totally misunderstood. I knew and accepted your post, I just (tried) to inject some levity.

Sometimes I just wish I could be understood. (A ha-ha and a damn right. all at once.) I'm laughing now.

(My dust cover was included in the package deal).

Thank you for responding. I most likely will call on you in the future.

Happy Listening!

Slaw,

Please don't misunderstand... I was commending you, not criticizing!  "Posting maniac" was supposed to be a compliment and a nod to your excitement, – sorry I didn't deliver that too well in my response…

In answer to your questions:

Yes, the Origin Live belt is flat, like the one that comes with the Merlin upgrade. I remember the stock motor belt was round, right?

The Phoenix Tachometer is fun and accurate. it does not adjust the speed, just monitors it. Seeing platter speed to three decimal points is exciting to me, because I can get it to stay on 33.333 RPM for a few seconds and then moves up to 33.338 or down to 33.327 which shows great speed stability. Then, I put the stylus in the groove and I can see “Stylus Drag” in action, dropping the speed down a few clicks. What’s cool about that is that Stylus Drag changes depending on what music you’re playing! Big orchestral movements slow the platter down the most and soft, one-instrument etudes much less. Once, just for fun, I experimented with finely adjusting speed back to 33.333 or a close as I could get for each track on an album side (which is the epitome of crazy) and I’m happy to say that thankfully, I could not hear the difference. Now I just adjust speed if need be at the very beginning of a side and just listen to the music.

I din’t pay nearly that much for my beautiful acrylic dust cover! Mine was custom-made to my specs for around $200. Now if only I could remember who made it…

Regarding the platter, yes you’re right, it doesn’t directly affect the speed… I just have a thing for manufacturing tolerances. Visible wobble is bad. Not being able to tell from a few feet away that the platter is spinning, is good.

Keep enjoying enjoying our little analog secret!

Alón

...regarding the less than stellar machining of the platter... since the sub-platter is machined to a higher tolerance and the belt rides on this, the main record platter doesn't have as much of a significance in terms of speed stability.

alonski,

Well, as you read, I have a problem. That is my passion for music reproduced well in my home. I know my style may turn some off but I thought it may be interesting to post my (live) experience. I hope some can appreciate it.

Regarding the Origin Live belt... does your TA motor use a flat belt like my motor w/ Merlin power supply?

The Phoenix Tachometer.....would it be in any way superior to my Sutherland Timeline just to "check on speed stability"?

My tt package included a Gingko cover, it's nice but not necessary. I would not have spent $400 on it myself.

This is my initial response, I will re-read your post again. Thank you for responding.

Hi All,

It's been a while since I looked at this thread... Slaw, you are a posting maniac! Thanks everyone for keeping it alive with your enthusiasm. Especially now, I feel so fortunate to have purchased a Rock 7 when I did. Even with Max's manufacturing tolerances being a little loose at times –– as in, the platter not being as true as possible (witnessed by looking at its vertical side surface while spinning, there is a small but noticeable wobble)... and yes, the leveling issues... and whatever else –– I'm over it all –– I just don't spend any more time and energy on that stuff (even though I enjoy the process) because my front end sounds so freakin' good it brings tears to my eyes. A music-loving friend, who knows acoustics and happens to be the architect who designed the Paris Opera House, also cried when listening to this system… saying: "you’ve ruined me, I can’t ever listen to my stereo again!” He then got up and hugged one of my speakers!

So that said, as one who is done tweaking for a while, I’m going to try and list every upgrade I made to the Rock 7 and note the impact it made on the sound of my system:

Upgrades:
~ Replaced stock motor with the TA Merlin-3 motor and DC-ish power supply –– snapped the timing into focus... everything before this upgrade now sounds blurry, which is hard to believe until you hear it.
~ 6-foot XLR motor extension cable –– moving the power supply away from the TT and electronics eliminated a low hum and blackened the background even more.
~ Took off the little nubs and put a thin cutout of Sorbathane under the round plate with the three depressions that goes beneath the motor, which further increased speed stability.
~ Replaced the stock belt with Mark Baker’s Origin Live belt… I was speechless and couldn’t believe I didn’t know about this upgrade beforehand. Made everything sound better… really.
~ Installed Phoenix Engineering’s RoadRunner Tachometer for a reality check on speed stability… it's really good to 3 decimal points (33.333) and fun to watch!
~ Replaced the already upgraded Excalibur 3 arm with the Helius Omega… wow, silky smooth and even more presence and inner detail.
~ Upgraded the awesome Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (which I re-installed on an Alphason 100s-MCS arm on my rare Alphason Sonata TT) to the Kiseki Purpleheart NS, which is even more awesome and a huge bargain at $3400 since it sounds like a $10K cartridge. The combo with the Helius arm and R7 is amazing and can definitely handle cartridges more expensive than itself and show what the best carts can really do and why they cost so much.
~ Got a custom-made acrylic cover –– you don’t want dust in your silicone.

There. Done. This of course, is only at the TT level... upgrades abound at every step down the signal path to the speakers, room, my ears… and finally, my very emotional response to beautiful music. Which, of course, makes it all worthwhile.

Cheers,
Alón

An example of a lp I listened to this morning:

Elliot Smith "S/T"  This is a digital recording. Without any clamp it sounded too forward and/or bright in the upper frequencies. I listened again with the metal clamp. All of the dynamic extension is still there but still a little too forward/bright again. The acrylic clamp sounded , in this particular case, more analog in nature although it dampened the ultimate dynamic extension. The acrylic in this case is my favorite.

The perfect solution would be to have had this recording in all analog if it would had been possible. So we cope and deal with what we're given.

Having said all of this, for me, it gives me some flexibility for recordings that may trend too bright or too dark.

I found the same with my VPI table. I own the (2) VPI SS center weights, (one I applied a 1/16" carbon fiber circle to it’s bottom side with a center hole cutout of 1&1/4", this is a benefit in another way. Some lps are thicker in the center. This makes the stock VPI weight not sit "flat" on a record. A serious flaw in it’s design IMO.) a BDR two piece clamp and a Stillpoint LPI. I found here that I most often prefer the Stillpoints but have noticed benefits with the other two clamps on various recordings.

Interested in others’ findings.

Various clamps:

My table came with the acrylic clamp and the expandable metal washer, if it can be called that?.

After speaking with Max earlier, I wanted to try his latest metal clamp. ( I like to try things for my own knowledge, then, if I choose to post, it is from my own experience.)  It has a damping material on it's underside and comes with (4) different thickness of metal washers.

For my testing, I used the original, expandable metal "washer".

I thought initially, that I liked listening without the original clamp. I heard a dampening of dynamics, less air/bloom with the acrylic clamp.

The metal clamp is 180 degrees. It offers a vivid listening experience but I still find it somewhat uninvolving as opposed to no clamp at all.

I still find that no clamp gives me a more involving, a more natural, emotional connection to the music. The lower bass is more fleshed out.

Any of you tried them? Love to hear your experiences.

Damn, 5" in one night! After living in the California desert for the past eight years (with temperatures in the teens---one hundred and teens!), the 23 degrees today (with ice everywhere) of Portland Oregon/Vancouver Washington is a major readjustment for me. No more shorts, t-shirts, and swimming pools, it's now thick jeans, flannel shirts, heavy coats, and staying inside! They're shutting everything down tomorrow, telling everyone to stay home. More time for music and movies!

bdp24,

Interesting you mentioned having to "upgrade" your arm mounting plate. Although mine is more substantial than your stock one is, I have envisioned making one out of carbon fiber.

I met with Kevin Carter yesterday. Luckily, I live around 1 hour away. He doesn't have the boards right now for the Maxxed-Out" and doesn't know when they'll be available. We did however, listen to his "Trio" in the most  basic version through a Nottingham (forgot which one) TT, with the (N) 12 arm, Benz LP cart. According to him, his latest Trio has 4x less output impedence than the Maxxed-Out!

We listened with his TT power supply that has a level adjustment. I was very impressed with this piece.

I want a phono w/ volume. His wasn't set up this way. He offered to see if he can modify his own to let me borrow and try out. He doesn't have stock pieces waiting for orders. He is an independent, highly educated, music lover that has been fortunate enough that he can live his dream. He could not have been more gracious, more easy going person and a joy to be with.

We got 5" of snow last night. Great listening weather if the power stays on.

Yeah Slaw, that K & K is gonna be great, a big step up from the EAR. I like Tim Paravicini's stuff a lot (I have an EAR 868 line stage), but the 834 is his economy/budget phono pre. Even a genius can do only so much at the 834's price! Your arm is better than your phono stage, so I agree, your move is the right one.