New Speaker advice

Thanks Soix. Really appreciate it. I was under the 'illusion' that I was taking advantage of a separates system when listening to two channel by using the preamp section of the Denon...what you're saying makes SO MUCH sense...has me thinking that I should make this change before new speakers even. The Vandersteens I have, I inherited from my dad who passed a couple of years ago. They are about 25 years old, and I remember them sounding sublime (albeit in a very tight listening area!)...but in my system, they sound quite veiled and choked...which is a criticism those speakers have earned over the years...but yes, maybe I should try preamp upgrade first! Thanks again

agree on good preamp first, before home audition...though you're picking all good speakers, which all involve trade-offs only you can decide on...

Denon AVR line has a 'pure direct' mode where it supposedly shuts off the internal amps completely and sends a 'pure' signal from amps to speakers...so that's what I use in 2 channel listening...but I am suspicious of it still bottlenecking as you describe

Yeah, you’re very right to be suspicious.  The problem is the sensitive and relatively low-level line signal is still going through the cheap preamp electronics of the AVR, which is the heart of the problem.  Think about how much you paid for the Denon — how much do you think they spent on the stereo preamp section in it?  AVRs are designed to hit very aggressive price points in an uber-competitive market, and the first thing to get sacrificed is parts quality (think critical/expensive parts like power supply, capacitors, etc.) and is why they’re so compromised from the get go. Do not minimize the importance of the preamp, and at the very least I’d encourage you to try a good stereo pre in your system just to hear for yourself what you may be missing.  Lots of places offer trial periods these days, or you could buy something used at a nice discount and that minimizes your risk if it doesn’t work out.  Sorry to be so wordy, but this is really important so thought it was worth going into a little more detail. 

We are focal and mofi dealers

Perhaps we can be of assiance

Based on room type the point source will be more musical the focals are exciting loudspeakers but could br a touch too forward 

Dave  AND troy

Audio intellect  nj

@mattsaunders2000 On the AVR point, what you can do is find a dedicated pre-amp that has a HT pass through. That's what I did when I added my Pass Labs XP22 preamp which I pass through the Arcam AVR through.

Thanks Lanx0003. I should have mentioned in the system profile above that I am running a pair of SVS SB2000's, as well as an SVS ultra center speaker. I don't really use them with the Vandersteens during 2 channel listening, but do engage them when watching movies. I assumed that with both Revels, and the Sourcepoints, I would likely use the subs with music. 

Thank you Soix...I have often considered the same thing re: the addition of a high quality preamp. One of the reasons I went with the Denon AVR is because I needed HT functionality for movies and tv...but that Denon AVR line has a 'pure direct' mode where it supposedly shuts off the internal amps completely and sends a 'pure' signal from amps to speakers...so that's what I use in 2 channel listening...but I am suspicious of it still bottlenecking as you describe, so I appreciate hearing it from you as well...confirms my suspicion(s). cheers.

Goodonya for taking the time to go out and seriously listen and, most importantly, having the guts to trust your own ears! Unfortunately I can’t help with the speakers, but I would very highly suggest you consider inserting a good stereo preamp into your system at some point instead of using the preamp section of the Denon AVR — your nice amp will thank and greatly reward you for it. Trust me, the Denon’s pre section is a huge bottleneck to getting much better sound out of your system as a preamp is an absolutely critical component. Just my $0.02 FWIW, and best of luck with the speakers.

Try for home demo. Check out ESLs and ribbons.

Additionally once you hear 2 to 4 subs in that big room...

To make things a bit easier, you could probably rule out F36 simply because there's no point in having a floor stander with a light bass response (51Hz -3dB).

I would recommend doing some more auditioning. Also, try to switch out of the analytical mode… try and listen to the music. I would extend to more brands and try not to evaluate the characteristics as much as seeing how compelling the music is. Does it suck you in.

What I am recommending is not easy. But this is ultimately what really counts for most folks that love audio.

I remember being frustrated during one of my first speaker searchs. There were so many and none of them really stuck out. I was getting to the point of just choosing one, when a song I particularly liked came on and a tear rolled down my cheek. Those were it. I think I had them for over ten years.