Hey Guidocorona,
I am currently using the 350.5's with my Wilson 5.1 speakers and they are doing a great job. I have been wondering about the Magico system 6 but I'll have to save some pennies. The 350.5 vs. the 600.5 well I'm not one for monster trucks but I do like Cadillacs especially the STS so hmmm.... how do I quantify the performance? Pass makes awesome ballsy amplifiers. along with my Watt 5.1's and my MIT Oracle V2.1 I feel that I have amassed a great set of gear. But as all audiophiles know technology marches on and I am curious about the Watt 8's. I am also curious about MIT's new Dot 2 upgrade. I'd like to know if anybody has heard a similar set-up? Any way I feel like I 'm rambling about my gear which always seems to be on my mind. I always seem to hear the words of grandfather in my head when I think about getting new stuff. He always said, "Better is always the enemy of good enough", True but what the hell. |
Pass Labs is introducing a new series of amps, dubbed the XA.5 series. Some initial details on three of these amps have been posted on the Pass labs site in the last few days: XA330.5, XA60.5 and XA100.5. They seem to differ from the original XA series in that power doubles into 4 Ohms and input impedance has been raised to 30KOhms. See:
http://passlabs.com/products.htm
If anyone has any further info or listening experiences, please do post them here. |
Hi, I'm wondering the real differences between the x600 vs the x600.5. With quite a bit of price difference, can anyone tell me if the x600.5 is worth the extra $$$. Thanks all. |
Magichandslarry, did you perceive any other difference between X350.5 and X600.5 except for power? Please elaborate. What is the rest of your system? What music do you listen to?Â
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I've listened to both the Pass 600.5 and the 350.5 for a good amount of time on each. I ended up with the 350.5 as they fit my budget and space constraints. They are both very robust in thier presence. You can really tell the difference between the two as the 600.5 really had alot of power all accross the spectrum and would probably drive the hell out of some good line source peakers. At 155lbs each they were formidable giants in my living room when I auditioned them for a month. But when it came down too it I got a great deal on the the 350.5's and the fit nicer into my salamander rack. As far as a loss in performance between the two I would say that the the 350.5's are are about 15-20 % less in performance than the 600.5's. They still bring a smile to face when I think about them and if I do a major remodel to my place I will definately make more room for larger amplifiers, just in case I score really sweet deal like I did on the 350.5's in the future. OOps almost forgot to mention that previously I had owned the 100watt Aleph O's and the X.0 pre-amp. also Martin Logan Statements. |
Peter is no longer with Pass Labs. |
hocklin, have you considered calling Pass Labs directly? Folks at Pass are extremely helpful. Try:
Pass Laboratories,
PO 219,
Foresthill, CA
95631 -
Voice: 530. 367. 3690 -
Fax: 530. 367. 2193 -
www. passlabs. com
have a chat with Kent and let us know what you hear. |
Hi Guidocorona, Thanks for your comments. So the X350.5 appears to be "better" vs. the old X600 in the areas of refinement, delicacy, control- which are what I am looking for. What about the X600.5? How big is the gap between the X350.5 and the X600.5? In a previous post there was mentioned that the X600.5 would have more sparkle!? |
Apologies to all. . . I corrected my previous post. I meant to say that the x600 was likely to be found a little leaner, not the 'x600.5'. Clearly a 'ooops!' |
hocklin, I suspect you may find the old X600 to have greater authority and to be slightly leaner, while the newer X350.5 to have greater refinement, delicacy and control. |
Hi there, I am considering the X350.5 against the X600.5 and would like to know if you have any views / experience on comparing the virtues of both these great amps? |
The.5 designation is deceveing. It could have been a totally new model with the great degree of improvement. G |
Anyone compare the Pass Aleph 2, X 350.5, and XA 160s?
I own latest update Soundlab U-1s with the benign impedence transformer upgrade and the latest PX panels, both of which, BTW, I recommend to any SoundLabs owner - you may contact me for details.
But, back to your opinions of the amps in this situation - driving Soundlab panel speakers or other electrostatics - they don't have to be U-1s. |
I had both X250.5 and JC-1 for 3 months driving my Studio. I had such high hope for the JC-1, but shockingly the X250.5 blows it away cold out of the box. Much faster, a lot more extended high end(JC-1' weakest area) , much better defined and controlled bass. And now I moved up to the X350.5 and it is in a class by itself. A lot more authority, dynamic, body, sweetness,....... I really don't know whatelse to expect from a SS amp. I heard some people prefer this amp over the XA160. |
Has anyone compared the X350.5 with the Parasound Halo JC-1's, or owned both of them?
If so, how do they compare sonically?
Thanks. |
TJ, not only I was impressed by the findings in your review of the X350.5, but I was equally amazed by the consistency of all the positive comments of the other users following your excellent review. Nelson must truly have created something special! |
I have no doubt that the monoblocks will be a refinement of what the single chassis x.5s will offer. I did post a formal reveiw here on the GON, hope you took a look at it, so I won't go into the many virtues I shared in my reveiw of the 350.5 amp. But what I want to share is the following; A new audiofile friend and music lover came to my house to hear my system and said" Come on were are the tube amps you can't get this warmth and timbres out of a solid state amp can you?" He has the 20000.00 Lamms and Karma speakers at home ,so he knows good sound.Yes you can along with dynamics,bass control, etc. with these new Nelson Pass's x.5 babies. |
Just spoke to Peter perkins at pass today and got an update on the upcoming X600.5. The engineering prototype device has now been making music for a while.
According to Peter, the team at Pass is now auditioning what may very well be the final tweak of the design. Everyone seems to be happy about the results, but the final go-ahead to close the engineering/design phase and transition to full scale production, will come only after a final audition/approval by the company CEO.
Peter suspects that full production may be under way by the end of May 2005.
I asked specifically about audible differences with X350.5. Peter answered that while there is a lot of similarity with X350.5, the X600.5 has even greater ease, liquidity, bass control, channel separation, and overall 'sparkle'. He suggests that the difference is not due to any design change, but to the complete separate chassis implementation and the dedicated power supplies in each monoblock. |
Thank you Irish65 for the clarification. |
Sigmund
How many hours do you have on your 350.5? I would like to hear what has transpired with the X350.5 since your last post when you first received it. In other words how has the amp improved or not. |
Guidocorona
On your last post on 12-4-04 you encouraged any with the X350.5 to give their impressions/findings. So I was referring to the X350.5. |
Irish65, which model are you breaking in exactly? Thanks, Guido |
Guidocorona
I am still in the process of breaking it in. I have about 30 hours on it and each time I listen to it it gets better and better. When I get at least 50 hours on it I will post the results. |
The Pass Labs web site has just been updated with information on the new X.5 series. See the following url:
http://www.passlabs.com/products.htm
In particular, the page on the new x600.5 has information on some of the electric design improvements, as well as some photographs:
"**Expected to ship in the first quarter of '05**
The X600.5 is the natural progression of the X600. Changes include improvements to power transformers, paralleled high speed / soft recovery rectifiers, improved AC EMI filters, more paralleled power supply capacitors, increased supply RC filtering, refinements to the front-end input circuits, and the addition of single-ended Class A bias circuits for balanced single-ended Class A at low power levels.
All of these changes bring the X.5 series closer to the sonic signature of the XA series amplifiers.
The X.5 series feature the distinctive front panel meters indicating of the level of current running through the output stages that have long been the visual signature of X amplifiers.
The X600.5 accepts both single-ended and balanced inputs. . ."
The X600.5 should become available early in the new year. It's smaller brothers are already shipping. While we wait for X600.5 to be completed and to start shipping, I love to hear from any new X350.5 owners with their live impressions/findings. |
Longho68: The x600 is a great amp, you will both enjoy it and will surely find a sonic upgrade.
".. expensive hobby.."???, not quite sure..., I thought the same, but if you talk deep with some friends who are into other hobbies such as Photography, wrist watches, pens .. or even more ego-indulging ones based on other sort of pleasure (you know..), we are in heaven....
Enjoy
Fernando |
Thanks Flg2001,
Frankly speaking, I recently sold my x250 in favor of the x600...now I'm confuse again..:-).heheheh isn't this a fun and expensive hobby..:-)
Did anybody compare the x350.6 to the x600 yet?... |
Sigmund: I own Avalon Eclipses, which also throw great backstage and imaging scenario. The sound of the combo is terrific for my tastes, but.. I recall a little more depth from the Gryphon amps.. anyway.
I am buying more CDs and less gear since the Pass is in the system...
Fernando |
Longho68: I am not that familiar with your speakers, just heard them very briefly at Madison 500 some years back when SACD was hot (jejeje).
If I were in your shoes I should go with the new Pass amp, there is a review somewhere in the net and at the PASS site where the reviewer found quite small differences between the x600 and the x250 in terms of musicality, tonal palette, etc.. the x600 is, from my perspective, only neccesary where TONS of power is needed.
Regards
Fernando |
thanks Guidorona, I think I'm going with the x600 since I like the look of it better..and save the extra 2k in other upgrades.....The new retail for the x600.5 is 18k vs 16k for the x600.......However, the new x600.5 will have RCA inputs as well....
Speaking of having RCA input for the x600.5?..could that mean more circuitry to deal with RCA input makes the x600.5 not as good as the x600?... |
My situation: Bought a X-250 demo 3 months ago for $4200 and had a PS Audio power cable thrown in on the deal. Now, for $1500 and the X-250 I can have the new X-250.5...Thoughts? Is the list price of $6500 a firm price for the X-250.5? |
Longho68, the X600.5 will not be available until the first part of the new year. You won't be able to audition them until then. I do not know the efficiency of your Sony speakers, you I can't really comment on what kind of amp you may need. |
The 250, which employs smaller caps, is a more current design from Pass than the 350, which employs those big caps. Most other amp mfrer like Classe etc. also uses small cap in their current amp design. Smaller caps dissipate current/energy much more quicker. Sonically IMHO, it is a lot more faster and better pace and usaually more extended. That could very well be the reason that X250 outperforms the X350. Talked to Pass people a few times and have learned they didn't do anything extra to the 350.5 than they did to the 250.5. I really doubt the 350.5 would outperform 250.5. Maybe in situation that requires the extra power. But, it is interesting to see the feedbacks from other 350.5 and 250.5 owners. |
Fernando,
The amp I had before the 350 was a Sonic Frontiers Power 2, That amp had geat depth, but left me wanting for the last word indetail and resolution. The 350 fixed that yearning. However, I don't recall losing anything in depth in the switch. I currently have Tyler Acoustics Woodmeres sitting six feet from the back wall. The Woodmeres throw a huge detailed sound stage. The image I am currently getting resides well behind the speakers against the back wall with lots of layering. I have also had Wilson speakers, the image was also very deep, but much closer to the floor and smaller, but that is a characteristic of the speaker. So now that I have made a short answer long, no I don't feel like depth has ever been an issue.
Richard |
Hi guys,
I've been confuse about the new .5 upgrade for a very long time and still is...Therefore, I've talked to Pete at Pass...and certainly, the x300.5 is the best in the x series he have ever heard compare to only the x250, x250.5, and the x300!!...however, I've been wanting the x600 mono block for a very long time, and Pete is recommending me to get the x600 over the x300.5 for my speaker(e.g Sony SS-m9ed - e.g that's sony uses for the demo)....What does this really mean?...could the x600 still sounds better than the new x300.5...but the x600.5 will be the very best of the best?...
I've seen the new faceplate of the new x300.5, and thought that the older look looks more mucho and heavey duty looking. Whereas the newer look is more elegant similiar to the new xa series....
Help guys...x600 or x350.5?.....any advise?..I'm lost. |
It is interesting to learn on the inner detailed presentation that Sigmund refers to. I have always felt that it is currently one of the main virtues of my X250. Inner detail, dynamics, articulation (particullary with the First Sound Passive preamp). I just can't imagine a step-forward these sonic attributes.. congratulations!
Fernando
PS: If I am pushed to hard to say what would I like to have more from my X250 would be depth of image. Have you experienced this as well? |
Last night I stayed up way too late listening. I experienced something with the 350.5 that I didn't with the 350. The 350 was a very exciing amp to listen to in my system. The transients were explosive and exciting. The reproduction of insturmental timbers could not have been better. But the 350.5 sucked me into the music....the only thing I can figure is that the inner detail is so much better I kind of felt like I was listening to a 300B amp. The 350 seemed to take sweveral months to really break in, so it will be interesting to see how far the 350.5 will come. |
Sigmund, it will be interesting to hear your impressions of your new X350.5 as you keep breaking it progressively in. |
I recently purchased an X250.5 and love it. I've seen several amps go through my system over the years including an X250 and an X350. I've never felt content with my amp and always felt the desire to try something different although I really enjoyed the X350 better than any other I had had at the time. But I doubt the X250.5 will be leaving my system for quite some time. Every time I sit down to listen, it seems to sound better. I would strongly recommend a listen to the X250.5 or the X350.5. I can't really imagine the X350.5 sounding a lot better than the X250.5, but I was surprised at how much of an improvement there was in the X250.5. |
Sorry, I meant to say 'I am NOT 100% convinced' |
Hi Folks,
I just received my new 350.5 48 hrs ago. I owed a 350 for two years, and was very happy with it. But the the boys at Pass talked me into an upgrade. Peter promised me great things. And as you might have it they delivered in spades. Without any break in time the 350.5 dropped my jaw. The sound is sweet, detailed, soft and musical, and all of the usual euphamisms. The bass is the real winner, it has the size and rythm of a tube amp and the controll of the best solid state. I picked up a full octave of bass. By peeking into the top, it looks like the power supply is completely different. The new face plate is real cool, a hybrid between the old and the XA. The 350 took a real long time to get as good as it got, so I really expect great things from the 350.5 in the future. I have to say that his amp has been one of the most exciting changes in my system since a significant speaker upgrade. |
Hi folks: I own a X250 and has been one of the best speakers I have had, the list is quite large to bore you here. I don't feel the need to move to the .5 series, and more into finding theright preamp for my X250. The best I have OWNED is a First Sound Passive preamp. X2 was awfull for me.
What is expected to be that different in the .5 series to really make me change my mind?
I will appreciate your feedback.
Fernando |
I'll be out of touch for 36 hours. Keep the discussion going in the meantime. Some dealers are already stocking X350.5. Someone should give these guys a buzz. |
wonder how X250.5 compare to XA-200 ? Any idea ? Thanks! |
Actually I was thinking of getting the X350.5. But I am 100% convinced. Being the fact that X250 outperforms the X350. I really have to audition the X350.5 and go from there. I hope I will make the right move this time around. Anybody auditioned the X350.5 and wants to shed some light? |
Today I spoke to Kent, rather than Peter. Peter was home with the flue. Kent said he spent some quality time a few weeks ago with X350.5.
He indicated that X350.5 has the very best sound he has heard this far, and not by a small margin.
According to his particular taste, the previous series lineup, in descending order of preference for him went: X600, X250, X350, X150.
He seemed to indicate that in the X.5 series things are very different. As nelson Pass proceeded in re-designing from X150 upwards, he put more and more of his own sound philosophy into the new models. So while X150.5 was definitely a positive step in the right direction, X250.5 was significantly better than X250, and the difference between old X350 and X350.5 is apparently even more remarkable.
Kent's new descending order of preference is X350.5, X250.5, X150.5.
The X600.5 will not experience 'first sound' until after mid December, and I intend to call back Pass Labs at that time. Will the delta between X600.5 andd X600 exceed the delta between the immediately lower model? Kent of course would not commit. Stay tuned. I suspect the entire new lineup may be ready for CES 2005--my inference only, not a tidbit from Pass. |
Guidocorona, that's a very interesting tidbit! Thanks for passing it on. |
What was Peter's feedback concerning the X350.5? |
Some more tidbits I just gathered from Pass: while specs on new X.5 series will be virtually identical to older X series, the implementation of the class-A portion of the amps has been changed from push-pull class-A, to a single-ended class-A design. This has apparently significantly reduced time-smearing of low level detail and is generating a much more layered and finely detailed image.
The ultimate goal seems to be to maintain the high current/power of the powerplants of the X series while re-capturing some/most of sound characteristics/magic of the original Aleph series through the single-ended class-A implementation.
X350.5 is complete and is being delivered to dealers. X600.5 still in engineering. Stay tuned. |
Thanks Irish65. I am planning to call Peter at Pass next week, as -- per my info -- by now they should have a working X600.5 prototype. It would be also interesting to hear from audiogoners who have already heard x350.5 in person, or who are planning to acquire one. |
Guidocorona
What you have already said is about all the info that I was told by Peter Perkins at Pass Labs. He did tell me that the X350.0 is there best sounding amp in the X series. The majority of people I have questioned said the X250 was a better sounding amp than the X350 before the .5 version. However, with the X250.5 and X350.5 the majority of people I have talked with said the X350.5 is better sounding. Peter Perkins said the X350.0 has improved the most from the .5 versions. He even said it would be very difficult to have the X600.5 sound better. Please take this all with a grain of salt. I would advise you to call Pass directly and hear it from them. They are shipping the X350.5 without manuals until they get them printed with the new info. |
