The "stock super quiet pump" puts out about 45 psi in this application, which is sufficient if not absolutely optimum. Mine has worked flawlessly for over 16 years with minimal upkeep. |
Jdubs: Have you ever had this table operational and if so than am I incorrect in the assumption the 'Noll needs a air-control-system ? Do you actually possess a super quiet pump ( Akin to a large black pump w/ 3 other smaller, plastic tanks) or perhaps a lessor pump that Maplenoll unfortunately sold to the public? Thanks , Good looking Table ! |
Readers: Following weeks of fruitless searching , I sourced a plastic air barb @ Grangers that may fit the manifold. The barb stem is slightly larger ; according to the staff , they had nothing elese smaller. With a little experimentation & mod'ing it could do. Friends , please accept this piece of advice. Should you own a early Maplenoll Ariadne and should decide to do a break-down, as I have, remove the plastic air barb from the Bearing Manifold ASAP, securing it in a safe place. All the best. |
Hey guys,
I had a Maplenoll pump but not one that was not 45psi. That's why I sold it...in an effort to source something that was (and oiless and rotary vane to avoid pulsations).
-Jim |
Robb of "Fine Finishes" phoned leaving a message the 'Noll parts are finished. More later. |
The 'Noll parts are back from "Fine Finishes", Robb did an outstanding job. When the weather improves I want to take several frames of Robbs work & the disassembled Ari posting them(soon) . I intend to polish the plastic & painted parts, reinspecting every part and sub-unit before putting the record player back together. Then, the hard work begins . |
Every 'Noll part has under gone re-inspection, cleaning & polishing. The painting work of "Fine Finishes" is truly dazzeling. Todate, I'm re-assembeling the table for now (less-tonearm) until I merge the Music Hall stand alone Turntable Motor Unit and the Table. The Platter looks stunning, but what is more important, Robb took it upon himself to flywheel balance the platter. It runs perfectly round.
Earlier, I "eyeballed" placement of the motor unit from pic's on AG ,I'm close ; only a "fraction" or so adjustment to equall the height of the Table , Motor Unit w/ VPI controller before speed tests.
My A+ gear is in Eric's shop for inspection and A/C balance . Tube replacement for the SP-10 & perhaps the input tubles for the S.O.B's. The 6550A are robust and are not up for replacement. My Audio room is up for a revamp. Lots going on to complement the 'Noll. Then picture time of the completed project. I will post the "Fine Finishes" work by Robb Shortly. |
Readers:FYI, A Ari'Noll is up for sale on AG, # 1225807894, Ontaro, CA., $2,400 plus shipping. |
Readers : This project has taken on many facets that I did not appreciate in the beginning. This is a journey not just a destination. Its my intention to create new bounds for the 'Nolls. Ideas that transend the moment or money. But, I have learned this project can not exist in a vaccume. Today, I requested assistance from Piedpiper , an expert in outboard motors ,to assist me & perhaps create other optons in arm tubes. I hope he can assist. |
Piedpiper has agreed to join in the project , in a couple of months. He's currently on the road. The schedule is OK with me , another Christmas present is a good thing. |
Yours truly dropped the oil trough on a cement floor, cracked the paint work. Another stop @ Fine Finishes for a redo and some oak work and pegs to fill the open holes left when the electronics were removed. In the works, a brass plate same size as the base plate, inscribed ARIADNE REFERENCE , Serial NO. 1800, to be placed on front of the Air Manifold. I will then post several shots of the Table , awaiting Piedpipers assistence.
We are all in for a treat, this Table looks sweet. I hope it surprises me in terms of performace. |
FYI : I'm awaiting on Piedpiper to have some free time to construct the motor mount. For now, my Rig is down . All tube gear and some digital are at Eric Falkehan's shop for inspection and repair should that be required. This is preventive in nature. While all else is out of the house some changes are being worked out for the listening room.
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a pair of Allen Organ Amps-75A's. Soon they will undergo a rebab/mod for home use. Despite the hard industral look , their articulation is shocking. Perhaps one of the greatest amps ever made , provided you know what your doing in the change-over. |
Crem,
just back from RMAF and back in the saddle. Still very busy but exploring ideas for motor mounts. I'll be redoing mine and in the process refine my ideas for yours. I'm also considering a Teres Verus motor/rim drive, available in two heights: 4.3" or 6.1". Could be an interesting way to go. |
Piedpiper: A rim drive ? Now, that's interesting / exciting. I'm looking forward to whatever you discover in rim drives & motor mounts. |
FYI: I located a soft iron motor mount in Hong Kong that "may" work with the 'Noll. It weights 5 lbs. before lead weights and could work with Pipedpipers mods. I requested information regarding sizeing and other "Q's". |
FYI : I have been corresponding with the motor housing source in Hong Kong , and between Piedpiper & I . After, many weeks of questioning , it does appear that we may have a go with the soft motor mount. More soon. |
Charlie
Have not heard from you recently. How is your project going. I just purchase a used signature and have recieved part of it today. I will comment (similar to piedpiper) that the plinth on the signature is a much more professional piece of work. This machine will require some work to get it up and running well. In particular, i am interested in your approach to the center pin replacement. The center pin in this one is shot. I believe there is a replacement in the spare parts box that has not arrived yet. I looked at the thread several times but can not find the reference to the center pin. I believe you were going to replace with delrin versus teflon or plastic.
I will also replace the stock leveling spikes with valid points or still points as the existing spikes are deformed due to the weight of the table. Also, the tonearm is kind interesting. It is more stable that the one on my reference table but it is not a thing of beauty. It appears that an aluminum tube was pressed to form a headshell that that became the armwand. I will try it out before I modify it, but I like my method of adjusting vta on the fly and the overall appearance of the carbon fiber arm and wood headshell. Also, this table does not appear to have a tonearm lift so i will need to make one for it. I shake too much to handle the arm directly
Overall, it is a beautiful table that i will enjoy modifying. I will post some pics as i get this one up and running |
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Thanks. If you would be willing to share some details around your motor isolation, i would appreciate it. Since i have a table that is working pretty good, I do want to take this time to modify the signature to capture some of the ideas that have been discussed on this thread. Your motor isolation is one that has not gotten discussed much but seems to be a great modification. I will have to set up an air system with this table but a lot of that is already discussed earlier in the thread. |
It's pretty simple. You just need to remove the bolts that hold the lead motor mount plate and create some sort of mounting for it that can be positioned at the correct height to accommodate the belt going over the plinth and under the platter, assuming that your pulley is designed to work with the subplatter rather than the platter itself. If it is the higher speed motor that interfaces with the platter rather than the subplatter then it is easier. In either case you must find or make a much longer belt and possibly a different pulley to accommodate it. I use a thread but have heard good things about audio tape. Either one requires turning a new pulley, which I've done on my lathe. Obviously getting the size exactly right is critical for speed accuracy unless you have a speed controler. I'll be constructing such a motor mount soon for Crem1. |
thanks,It appears pretty simple. I am assuming that tension is set by how far away you put your motor from the table. How does the thread work compared to the standard rubber belt? |
yes. It helps to have a very heavy bottom on the mount. I started using 3 large brass cones and then when I went with the mail tube casing I inserted a large chunk of steel to be eventually replaced with lead shot. The string is more rigid than the rubber belt but I couldn't do a direct comparison seeing as the repositioning of the motor necessitated using a belt that was far longer than any rubber one I've been able to find. I've considered getting one of AJ Conti's precision ground super thin rubber belts from Basis to try it. He swears by them, in contrast to the common wisdom that rubber belts are the work of the devil. The large lead platter should take care of some of the various issues at stake. |
Oilmanmojo: Sorry to take so long to reply. My 'Noll is near completion . Piedpiper and I have discussed options on a custom motor mount build .
A learning curve bump. I did purchase a complete outboard motor unit in excellent condition only to learn:
1. Size does matter . Its a challenge if the motor unit is not exactly the right height via the platter height for a belt to wrap around the platter, or to utilize in the space between the top plate bearing & bottom of the platter for belt placement. And,that's besides determining between a pre-made or home-made type belt & pully.
2. Stability is dependent on motor's ability to spin that lead slug ; unfortunately , the outboard motor unit I purchased could not "pull" that much weight. There's a reason the hurst motor was used.
Oilman, I did make an effort to have a ceramic center pin made, only to find no one interested in developing them for such a small market. I do have a few plastic center pins made years ago; one could serve as a template or a replacement. That center pin is the weakest part of our tables. Feel free to e/m or call , as you choose. |
Charlie--Good to hear from you. missed your comments in recent weeks. Hope you are doing ok. I know you had some health issues. As for the centerpin. I am having some manufactured out of teflon(two types) so if you or others have a need, i will have some replacements. I am studying the Piedpiper mods and will work to develop a plinth for the external motor. As you state, it will not be an easy project but if i can use the existing motor and create the path for the belt, I might go that way. Still deciding on path forward. I also am modifying the stock arm to install my on the fly VTA and improved armwand/Headshell. I did learn an important lesson though it is costly. The bottom plate levelness/Flatness is critical. The table I purchased was not moving smoothly when the air was put on it. I swapped out my existing table bearing plate and walla, it is moving well. The heavier platter requires more air pressure to float (can not use my cheap aquarium pump) but it now turns easily. With the "slightly" warped bottom plate, it took a lot of air to float and was noisy. I will get the bottom plate refinished and resurfaced to make it useable. I have decided I will take my old table and refurbish similar to your approach and my arm modifications and sell it. I also have a bunch of spare parts to build my own version of airbearing table and arm. A project for the future. I will send some pics soon. |
Oilmanmojo : What you have shaired is quite exciting news.
The platter and the air bearing plates I devoted much time and effort. A few ideas I wish to pass on:
My platter's underside, showed signs of wear perhaps a result of gravity's "pull" loaping the edges and creating wear rings where the top plate rested.. The bearings are undersized to support large slugs of lead for decades.I relate(from observation) the top bearing plate's size (or lack thereof) allows some of the underside of the lead platter to be unsupported creating potental stress points where gravity's pull ,over time, could affect the trueness of the platter. Most of these all-lead platters have been a top undersized air bearing plates for 20-25 years, perhaps, enought time for gravity to do its job. Storage of the platter ,other than on its flat sides, could also affect its trueness.
Lead is a soft metal that is not as stable as say steel. Heavy casted lead parts do deform over time no matter what one does. Its size, weight, design & fuction all relate to lead's ability to hold onto its casted shape as I was to learn.
During my rebuild process, I learned that the platter did have casting defects (covered over by thick black paint-presume lead based paint) that were only resolved by spin balancing ,on a lathe, "trueing", out foundary defects with hand sanding and a lot of care. Quite a messy job that I did outsource to a professional. The platter now spins true without "wavey-ness" as it revolves.
Lloyd Walker conversted years ago , that the 'Nolls air bearing plates are "hardened" cautioning me they might shatter should they be afixed to a high-speed lathe for truing, or crack if harshly handeled/sanded. Sometime later, a dealer emailed that he purchased a 'Noll damaged in transit. He brought the parts , taking them to a machine shop for repair. He wrote the shop attempted to true the plates ,cracking them in the process.
Oilman, just passing this along for whatever value it may hold for your rebuild.
I am looking forward to your design of a outboard motor unit. Perhaps we can all benefit from your work. |
Charlie--Thanks for your insight on the platter. I agree that resurfacing will be a challenge. I first have to understand the alloy then i can find a shop to do it. I found an article from another website on a rebuild of a maplenoll athena from 1999 and he also indicated the issues with the platter. I have an old set of platters in the bunch of spare parts to play with first. Fortunately with my connections in the oil business and a brother in law who is a mechanical engineer with a specialist degree in materials, i hope to find the right place to resurface. I know it can be done because it was originally polished smooth. as for the lead platter, the signature is 90lbs of lead and as you highlighted, will be a chore in trueing up. This platter is bunged up also so i have work to do there. I will most likely outsource that as you did to get it truely level and balanced. That makes a great deal of difference. The other thing i have found is the spindle is not perfectly true. I will see what i can do with that also since it must be perfectly 90degrees to the air bearing plate to prevent the record from wobbling. An interesting find in the bag of extra parts. One of the air bearing spindles is grey in color and appears to be a different version as my signature or reference spindles. in addition, it is much smoother and glides in the sleeve pretty good even without air. Not sure if a surface treatment was done on it. but I will swap it out on my new project. damn i love these tables:^) |
Well, I have completed my refinishing of the lead platter. I turned and balanced the platter. I decided not to grind down the outside dimensions to correct a couple of Dimples in the lead. Instead i used epoxy to fill the holes and then sanded the surface to true it up. I repainted the platter with a good grade of acrylic paint. Looks pretty good once finished. Now got to get some help in mounting this beast on my airbearing platter. I also fabricated the center pin out of teflon. I have two grades of teflon. one is the standard formula and one is an infused teflon that has some materials to improve its abrasion resistance. I will say the teflon is very smooth. I am not sure what the original pin is made out of. I also installed my walker valid point on the table. The airbearing block has been attached to the zlift so i now have the on the fly VTA on this table. I am working on the armrest and lifter since this particular model did not have either. My dampening system is still being designed, but i will once again install below the air bearing spindle versus the headshell. This is very similar to the Walker table though my design is not as elegant. The armwand materials are not in yet, but i will use a carbon fiber wand (xxstrength versus standard carbon tube. I also plan to run the wire in separate quadrants in the tube to minimize interference. I have found that the moving the wires just a little bit impacts hum in the phono preamp. The separate quandrants should help that as well as working on grounding issues between the table and the phono preamp. I will work to fill the internal cavity of the tube to minimize any possible resonance along the interior cavity of the tube. I am still looking at how to extend the fine wire from the cartridge clip to the preamp. the really fine wire is great for minimizing impacts to the floating of the armwand but is hell when changing cartridges (my fat fingers tend to snap the fine wire). My last solution was to solder the fine wire to a din connector then use high grade cartridge clips and wire to connect to the din connector. I will say however, the best sound comes from minimum connections from the cartridge tip to the phono preamp. My pump system will be my JunAir compressor i currently use on my existing table. I will initially get the unit up using the motor attached to the plinth. I am still looking at ways to design the motor in a separate plinth. I am trying to find a source for the corian so i can build one out of corian to match the table. The motors are pretty small but the plinth needs to have enough mass to hold the motor securely and absorb all of the vibration from the motor. I will have some initial pics this weekend |
Let us know if and when you find a good source for the granite look corian as I also have plans for ancillary plinths, for the arm and motor.
Also, beware of too much arm dampening both from the stand point of over damping per se and as regards unnecessary dielectric losses. |
Piedpiper, found a supplier that can deliver sheets of corian. Still looking for the exact or closest match. Size of sheet varies. The thickness of the corian is 1/2 inch but you can sandwich many layers together then drill out the motor enclosure. I am still debating on how to do the plinth. Got be heavy enough to be stable. The site is Solidsurface.com. On a separate note, having to go back and rebalance the platter. Takes too much air to float and a pretty good wave as the platter spins. Thanks for your thoughts on the damping. I may start by just running the wires in tube first. As for my oil dampening system. Its similar to what the original maplenoll design, just below the spindle instead of the headshell. I also found adjusting the viscosity of the oil was key to finding the right amount of dampening. My refinery makes a broad set of oils so i get to experiment some. If you are interested, i could sent you a set of different viscosities to try out. I am looking at a new headshell. I used the yamamoto wood (its first class) but will try a graphite headshell. I have a block of solid graphite that i am trimming down into a prototype headshell. I am also pondering an airbearing modification to improve the platter. As you know the airbearing arm has multiple ports to keep the airspindle floating and aligned. most of the new state of the art airbearings used in the positioning field have multiple ports on their rotory bearing plates. Critical parameter is equal pressuredrop through each nozzle. But the multiple nozzles will stabilize the platter with much less air flow and less noise. More to come on this subject |
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Oilmanmojo , I have been reading your Apollo adventure with great interest. I have a few suggestions for your consideration ; in no particular order :
1. Clean the air manifold: Removing the manifold and cleaning the airbearing with a oil removing solution does wonders for air flow and arm stabitily.Clean the plith while your at it.
2. Do not underestimate the effect of filling the spindle tube with a "light" dampter. I used a Home Depot product that is sold to fill open spaces around windows. Very easy to apply & interms of dampting scores a 3-4 out out of 10 , an excellent way to improve the spindle w/o excessive dampting & weight.
3. Before re-assembly,lightly spray & polish parts, such as, the spindle, air manifold's inside air bearing ; the inside of top / bottom air bearing plates with Eagle 1 Spray Detailer ; its available almost anywhere auto parts are sold. The result has to be experienced to be believed: All air bearing parts operate so quitely , arm stability is improved.
4. A light damping the bottom of air bearing plate's underside & replacing worn or hardened rubber , returns the pliths performace to like-new or better. You are also assured the bottom bearing is flat ,secure & will not excessively "ring". I feel the top plate must revolve on a "lightly" dampened lower plate to bring out that last breath of air in certian recordings. "Light" is all you need. Again, this has to be experienced to appreciate the difference.
5. Test the platter & air bearing plates for "trueness" before going any further with truing/sanding the platter to assure neither is so out of round the repair may be out of reach.
6. When replacing the center pin use a soft wooden dowel to push the old pin. Then, gently tap in the new pin to seat slightly higher than where the former pin rested. Next, put the top plate into the new center pin , gently push down,by hand, onto the top plate to "seat" the center pin. I have learned that my failure to seat the center pin as outlined can result in "air swoosh". Only that gentle push by hand seats the pin.
Wishing you grest sucess. |
Charlie
Thanks for the tips. I have already cleaned the spindle and the air openings/chamber using a good solvent and carefully dried everything. I have not applied an exterior finish as you have suggested, but i will try that. I have notices one of the spare parts in the box of items was an airbearing tube that was not the typical aluminum finish but some type of applied finish that is much smoother than some of the other bearing tubes. great idea. I am still awaiting the balance of the platter. I know that will improve the effectiveness of the system. I am toying with an idea to try on one of the old bearing plates i have. You can improve the effectiveness of the airbearing plate by going to multiple air ports versus the single source. Not an easy task because you have to carefully control the orifice size of the port but if done properly, you could improve the balance of the system using 6 or 8 orifices. The platter dynamics become more stable and the "stiffness" of the airbear improves and less wobble occurs. (at least that is what i think i am learning from studying the theory around the airbearing). If it doesnt work, i still havent lost much because the plates have to be polished and resurfaced anyway. I know I have promised some pics and I will get some soon. Thanks again for the support and tips. By the way, the teflon centerpin is working pretty good. |
Tom, I look forward to your future posts. Glad to know the teflon pin works so well; your idea of multiable ports does appear to resolve many issues. |
I should get my platter tommorrow:^0 i will lose about 1/8 in on diameter to get it trued up. But it is supposed to be perfectly balanced. I will soon see. The theory around the multiple ports on the bearing is similar to the one on the arm spindle that keeps the spindle centered. Key is drilling the port about 1/1000 in. I have found a machine shop who can do this for me. Not sure that the project would be commercially viable since the procedure will cost a little money. Still got to design the manifold or well to ensure each port sees the same air pressure. Got a couple ideas, but nothing specifically designed yet. The existing design should still work well if the platter is balanced and the bearing plate is true. You brought up that point earlier and that is the problem with the old set of plates that was in the box of parts. |
Tom, Is it possible that the old set of plates with warp be corrected and trued ? |
Charlie---good question that i am not 100% sure that it can be. Some of the information on various forums based on actual discussions with Dilger would suggest difficulty in doing it. In fact one string suggested that dilger had many of the plates originally produce and the reject rate was tremendous because of warping and trueness. Others have warned about cracking during polishing or grinding of a slightly warped plate. Talking to the machine shop that trued my platter(just recieved it today), he says he can handle it. His work on the platter was exceptional. I mounted it tonite and wow, it looks sharp. I have noticed an improvement in background noise with this table compared to my other ariadne.
Again, back to your original question, i will be able to report back in a few weeks on its success or not. The ones i have are not severely warped so the shop feels that a hard polishing will true up the platter. They have experience with lots of different materials including ceramics so they feel they can handle it. I will also have the shop bore 8 air ports on the platter. I will develop a plate that will install on the bottom to serve as an airplenum that will feed the 8 ports. The holes will be in two concentric circles to cover the entire width of the bearing surface. |
Tom, I have a feeling you will be sucessful. I look forward to viewing some shots of the plates when they have been refirbished. All the best. |
original owners manual....i have an original owners manual if your interested.in my old system i had 2 maplenoll signature tt,s with the 100 pound platters. |
chetatkins--do you still spin them, or have you moved on. Seems a lot of maplenoll owners move on to other players. I enjoy tweaking and the compressor issue does not bother me since i have optimized it. I have the owners manual from this last purchase. |
i kinda got out of the audio scene for a while and sold the tables.the condo where i used to live is still vibrating from the bass output of the maplenoll table.thunder.LOL |
Oilman , Try Meguiars "Quik" interior detailer on all parts I formerly recommended. Lightyears ahead. Makes the 'Noll float & glide like never before. Silkey feel especially the edges of the bearing plates. Very quite operation. All from a spray or two of Meguiars. Just spray & gently polish with any lint-free cloth. |
Readers : I am re-assembling the Ari-Noll. The outboard motor will come later as will a different tonearm. I have reopened some cut-outs to accept the motor & electrical components. Sota commerical vibration/insulation strips surround the motor dampening it down tobe near inaudable. All the rubber including the gromets have been re-placed a second time with a softer rubber compound. The tonearm has been re-wired with Cardas 33 ga. Next, I will re-tube , attach the PSI gages and attach the Air Control System that has been sucessfully tested to 50 PSI , 4/5 PSI to the platter, the remaining to the air bearing for the tonearm. Much to do before play time. |
Update: Another round of tests of the electrical system & air control system have been completed. No leaks and all are fuctioning at or beyond my expectations. The tonearm is operating with a silky feel; the air bearings spin as never before. No one I approached had any interest in developing a retro-fit of the air bearing plates so I'm stuck with the center pin system. Because of that, the free spin rate has limits unless that technical issue can be resolved. 8" diameter is just that not 11". Perhaps I am within "shouting distance or less" to the mega-buck spin rates but limitations to do with the initial air bearing design will await to be conquered by another. The rebalancing of the lead platter increases the spin rate at the cost of a ounce or so of lead: No big deal. I feel assured the spin rate is greater now than when Ari was "stock" 'Noll.
The re-painting of the exterior air manifold and several selected parts improves the over-all finish & look. I have a feeling that when one views those pics , the black-on-white or the black-on-grey specks ,era will be replaced with professional re-painting.
This 'Noll has been inspected; cleaned , damped , sanded , balanced, parts replaced or re-manufactured , re-wired & polished as required. The table has had a complete make-over from the-inside-out.
The above was accomplished after collecting 20+years of reviews , comments, interviews and DIY suggestions: Reading and re-reading applying every useful suggestion I could gleam from the written page. And, may I say judgement calls by yours truly.
Soon I will know if all of this was worth the effort. I won't hold back whatever the outcome. |
Charlie--Cant wait to hear your feedback on your mods. I totally agree with the balance impact on the "spin rate" on the noll. With the heavier platter it made a tremendous impact. I am having that done to my older table platter. |
Oilmanmojo : At this jucture all that is left is to re-arrange the audio room , no small task. I'm applying Jim Smith's techniques from "Get Better Sound", to extract as much from the room as possible.
All my gear has been checked out by Eric Falkenham (410-467-3620). Eric is a former trouble shooter for Westinghouse's Airport Unit. This man knows tubes and tube circuits. Without Eric I would have gotten out of tube equipment , with him I'll keep on truck'in.
Things are starting to come together. As an aside I can't believe what a difference foam damping tape made on noise levels of the inboard motor. The stuff was forwarded by the G&E Company. I have a couple of other places I want to apply the tape. So far a vibration killer. |
Tell me more about this dampening tape. This sounds interesting. Sounds like u use to damping the motor. how and where to apply the tape. I like the idea of an external plinth but if i can get 80% of that effect without moving the motor, that would be an option to consider. On your room treatment, are u using wall treatment? I know its off topic, but am interested in that aspect of sound improvement also. |
O: Forward your home address via email & I'll send you some. Cheers, Charlie |
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The tape is a high quality , micro-spore 3/8" w/ sticky on one side. The interesting feature is that it can be depressed into the smallest spaces and dampens better than any other tape product I know. What I did was cut off enought to wrap around the motor using popcicle sticks to position the tape in the motor cut out with the sticky side out . Just amazing what it did for motor noise. I wraped the tri-mount sides even a greater reduction. I hope that it will work for you as it has for me. |
I'm putting a TT stand on a wall; the 'Noll is on hold for a couple more days(I hope).
I'm applying the suggestions/ideas contained in the book "Get Better Sound" to the basement audio room. Smith has the knowledge to set-up any system in any room: He is a mind bender. While he does not recommend reading his book in the traditional way, cover to cover , I couldn't put down. Check out the web site www.getbettersound.com for info. |
