Mitch2, I mean AudioCircle when referring to the Lampi Rave info. |
DSD is via tri-level filtration. No dac chip and no DSP. |
I'm curious if it does do this, perhaps through some DSP. Maybe even DSD128?
Bruce |
Has anyone compared a GZ34 to a 6106 in level 4? |
Srg,
You're fishing and Glory is not biting. |
It is just that my personal listening preferences lean toward a touch more midrange/midbass warmth. Lampi appears to be your answer. Digital and"organic" are two words you rarely hear together. It is hard to get right IMO. I have not owned vinyl or tape, but when I hear it, it sounds right. That is the "sound" I am looking for in my digital front end. The Lampi appears to be my answer too. I appreciated your observations on the MUSE vs a dedicated computer. Computers look like a panacea largely due to the convenience factor, but they are very hard to get right. You don't know this until you actually do A+B experiments. |
Hi Gopher,
Ok, I get it - sounds like a lot of happy Lampizator customers out there. Lukasz is fortunate that sales of the Level 4 and positive reviews on these forums have helped folks become aware of his DACs. I have done about as much reading about Lampizator as I can, and now need to decide whether to give one a try, or not.
The HEX I am using is an excellent sounding and well reviewed DAC, and for many would be an end game piece. It is very neutral, sounding neither lean or fat, and still manages to accomplish excellent bass extension and drive, as well as an organic/realistic presentation. It does absolutely nothing wrong. It is just that my personal listening preferences lean toward a touch more midrange/midbass warmth. The only two DACs I have read about that may provide those characteristics, without significantly losing out in other areas, are the Lampizator and the CAD 1543, which is almost unknown over here in the USA. Because of availability issues and the relatively high pricing of the CAD, it is likely I will try a Lampizator first. |
Mitch2,
I purchased a Level 4/gen 4 and sold it shortly after the purchase... Did it underwhelm? NO! I bought a Big Six and TranspOrt! I have two friends within 30 miles of my home that did the EXACT same thing as me.
I have a friend in Cali that did the same after about 2 months with his 4 and another friend in NYC about to take the plunge.
That accounts for 5 the Level 4 sales. |
I build stuff and the build quality of my unit is very good. It is point to point wired with a very robust power supply with multiple chokes and Mundorf film caps. He uses silver wire and I could go on and on.
Understand these are not mass produced circuit board only designs with that modern day factory look. They are home made point to point wired with parts mounted on wood etc.... Some look at this as poor build quality, but they are using mass produced, printed circuit board, sterile looking pieces as the standard. Apples and oranges really. |
Thanks all for the feedback.
Glory, you commented on another post about some reservations about build quality and the DACs needing some help from Ming Su? Is this still a problem? |
The bass is certainly better than my past SS April Music Eximus DP1 dac that sells for $3200 and is very, very highly reviewed. |
SGR, the bass in my tube rectified L4 is very tight and has great impact and body. The Bendix tube in that position really gives the Lampy a kick in the bass area! |
I'm a friend of Jim Yorkshire and have heard his many times. You should be able to answer that question yourself.... |
I use a SS amp (with superb woofer control due to negative ouput impedance), so have no complaints on that front with my Lampi L4. Perhaps with a tube amp, it may be different, I dunno?
I dont know the L5 personally... |
Srg,
The Lamp Dac is not about big bass little bass textured bass and so on. In the L5 the bass is where and what it should be. These machines are about music connection. A live realist and convincing sound that will keep you involved with the music you play.
Very nice system you have. If bass is a concern I would dump the cables you have and look for a huge upgrade in cables that would effect the bass.
Stage 3 is one of the very best AC cables and Thales IC is one of the best I've had in my system. Aaudio Imports sells both. Call Brian for a demo and report back. |
I was wondering how the bass in Lamp 5 or 4 sounds compared to solid state DACs. Sometimes tube bass is noted for sounding round and full without the detail, slam, and complete control of detail that solid state DACs can provide.
I do know in this era the two solid state and tubes tend to sound more similar than the past.
Just putting this out there for those with experience. |
Mitch, go to Audiogon and find the post detailing the Rave in mid October in NJ.
Even if you cant make it there, post in any of the Lampi threads there asking if there is any owner close to where you live and you would like a demo.
People like Gopher in the NYC area could hook you up. Jriggy is in Indiana and Glory is in Fla. |
Mitch, most are selling for the 5 or 6. That is a fact. This dac is very special and breaks though the ceiling of good dacs by quite a margin. My digital front end kills the sound that CD players like the top rated Cary 306, Ayre,and Esoteric brought to the table. Oh ya, forgot to mention a highly modified Sony and Marantz 7s1.
Really a whole new realm of resolution a plain old sounding like real music, not a stereo system. |
I suggest you listen for yourself and make up your own mind. Great advice....In USA, where? how? Is there an importer with a demo unit, or is it strictly buy to try? |
I heard of one guy placing an order for a Big6 one hour after setting up his new L5 and listening to it.
The really instructive thing is that the L4 sell fast second hand. They are very good. |
The old I am moving away and need $$$ trick LM$O. |
That's correct, I'm selling mine. I had the idea of starting to enter into the digital world and placed an order for this DAC. A week later I had the opportunity to buy an amazing house that's 2500 miles away. This was not in the plans at all. Now, I'm scraping money together for the deposit and moving cross country within the next 2 months. It's a great unit, no doubt about it. I won't say I like it better than my analog, but I can see how some may think so. |
Mitch2,
Many of these guys have upgraded to L5 and Big6 after hearing the L4! One guy moved to PBD because he wasnted DSD and rips vinyl to DSD128 now. Well last week the Lampi DSD128 was finalized and I have one of the first ones. The same fellow who moved to PBD (who loved the Lampi PCM, even better than the PCM on the PBD) asked me to see if I can get a hold of a PDB-3 and compare them on DSD. It so happens that I may be able to in a few weeks as I know demo room with PBD 3 and 5 and its on our agenda. It is possible to retrofit DSD on a PCM Lampizator Dac now.
I wont tell you what to do, but I suggest you listen for yourself and make up your own mind.
BTW, Vortex said:
I have all the original shipping materials for a safe journey to the new owner. I placed this order right before I unexpectedly bought a house and decided to move cross country. All my time and finances are needed for this new venture.
|
Well Vortrex just posted this at AudioCircle Wisnon, Yeah I noticed that post by Vortex and then I also noticed he promptly put his Lampizator up for sale...after only owning it two weeks? There is also another Lampizator 4/4 currently for sale where the seller is using close to the exact same language as the previous seller used in July (including the reason for selling). The unit was reportedly made in May of this year so, it is being sold for the second time after only 4 months. There is a third unit for sale at AAsylum with the serial number one after the unit made in May, a fourth unit that was just listed at the end of August with an even higher serial number (that has sold), and a fifth unit listed a couple of weeks ago that appears to have sold. All of these Lampizator's changing hands after being owned for only a short time may mean something, or nothing, but it does give me pause before thinking about a $3-4K expenditure. I sure would like to hear one in my system. Glory, My MUSE Erato II was my only source prior to computer audio. I stupidly sold my Thorens TD-166 MkII (that I had owned since college) at a garage sale when I decided to permanently switch to "perfect sound forever." |
Vortrex is selling his Dac LOL |
I have the top of the line Jensen PIO , copper foil, paper cased caps in mine. The Duelund caps are more resolving for sure and the Jensen caps are a tad richer in the mids,
I will put Duelund in mine once I get the funds as they are quite expensive. |
"Are you Lampizator owners truly getting sound to rival your best players and even vinyl?"
M2,
Yes. Your Dac is not a Lamp so I am sure you would find a whole new world in the L4/5 as I know I did. 2x DSD is a real pleasure to listen to.
What TT do you have? |
Well Vortrex just posted this at AudioCircle and he seems to be an analog guy like you:
"I got one of the G4 L4 units 2 weeks ago with the Jensen caps, which is still breaking in. It's technically a Level 4.5 as they call it, since it has the Level 5 PCB inside my unit. I'll preface this and say I am not a digital guy. The digital I have heard prior (audio show) has not been my cup of tea. I really like an organic 3D flavor, which digital has not shown me before.
Not having the right pieces to set up this DAC properly, I used the USB cable from my printer and connected it to a Macbook Pro running a trial version of Audirvana Plus. I then got a couple of hi-rez FLAC albums that I am very familiar with on vinyl. I was quite surprised to hear how well this DAC stood up against my vinyl rig (TW Acustic Raven, Ortofon RS-309D, Ortofon Synergy SPU, Leben RS-30EQ, Hashimoto HM7 SUT)! Clearly the DAC was producing a more solid foundation. What I was not expecting is for the digital to have dimension to it. Digital to me always spelled soulless and uninteresting. I won't say it had the depth of the analog rig, but the width was there. Images hover in space. There's a different presentation overall, I would say the DAC is bolder. If you are looking for a way out of analog, this could be your exit point. Looking back to all the previous vinyl rigs I have had in the past, I would choose this DAC over them. I think the analog setup I have now is the tipping point. Maybe the Big Six would close the gap even more or cross it?
I'll also say I was expecting something that was kind of DIY-like. That is not the case at all. It might have a utilitarian look to it, but the DAC is very well built and solid. It's better than some "Made in the USA" gear I have had before. The packaging was also first rate and it arrived only 1 HOUR different from the time Lukasz quoted me at shipment. Great service for sure." |
Digital is the equivalent of my third string QB. I have been playing with digital for a few months and am using a dedicated 2012 MacMini with SSD, ifi power with split (power/signal) USB cable, Metrum HEX, and Pure Music player with NOS upsampling to 88.2 and Less is More. I use XLD to rip CDs directly to AIFF. The HEX runs balanced to my SMc preamp, then Clayton amps and Aerial speakers. Cable runs are short. After two months of getting the computer set-up to sound as good as it can with that gear, I put my MUSE Erato II player back in the rack and IMO, while both sound good, the MUSE improves on the computer set-up by providing greater depth, mid-bass/midrange warmth, better decay, and a slightly more rounded presentation that makes me enjoy listening more. The computer set-up is equal to a touch better in clarity, deep bass, and detail, and while it sounds quite musical and achieves most or all of the desired audiophile type attributes, it simply does not create the same level of musical connection for me as the player. Since the HEX has already been very positively reviewed by some pretty experienced folks and is said to be one of the better DACs at providing an organic (non-analytical) presentation, I am not sure whether a different DAC, such as the Lampizator, is the answer or if the computer thing is simply not quite at the level of a top disc player. I would also look to the player but I settled on Pure Music as the most musical of the big three after expiring the trial subscriptions to all three. This result is a little frustrating since I was hoping to equal or improve on the player, for the investment. Even the convenience is a wash given the idiosyncrasies of the computer audio players and the ease of using a remote with the player. Are you Lampizator owners truly getting sound to rival your best players and even vinyl? |
Agear, further to that point. LF has made arrangements that if anything untowards were to happen, all the schematics would be released to the public. Being a point to point wiring hand built item, any competent tech would be able to repair the unit.
Besides, even if he were not around, the company would survive. |
The Sonore Rendu is on my list of things to buy. I am quite impressed with Sonore and the development of their products.
Won't splurge on a Lampi though. Can't justify that spend on digital no matter how good it is. I am an analog guy. Digital is the equivalent of my third string QB.
I must say though this computer audio has been kind of interesting to me of late. |
SGR, some DSD Dacs can only do DSD64 ...at least for the moment. Chord Qute is an example.
There is a LOT more DSD64 material out there than DSD12, bt there are a few albums out there you can buy online and some people are ripping their vinyl collections to DSD128!!!!!! |
SGR,
I will do an article on this at PTAudiophile soon to sort out the confusion.
1)Correct. Some people prefer the big box rather than 2 separate smaller boxes and other prefer the inverse.
2)Plain vanilla DSD ( what is used as the format on SACDs is DSD64...ie ibit 2.8mhz). DSD128 is double rate DSD, ie double data rate 5.6mhz. Twice the size and a bit better SQ, probably due to the fact that the ultrasonic noise is pushed even further away from the audible frequencies.
3) ECC40 has great SQ, but is less robust that 182. I dont know the characteristics of all, but a buddy just switched from 40 to 182 and prefers the latter. 182 is more robust as well, but also more expensive.
4)I agree here.
5) He uses either 6x5 or 5Y3 rectifier tubes. Both kinds are supplied stock. I think there is more tube rolling possibilities with the 5Y and consequently more upside from tweaking. I have the 6x5 and am happy enough. I did find a few at Ebay to try rolling with. |
Anyone have misgivings about spending vast sums of $$$$ with a small company in a foreign country that could close at any time leaving buyers with unserviceable, dead end, unsaleable, equipment? I have zero qualms about engaging. Poland is not going to close anytime soon, although Amerika seems to be flirting with that reality. If a small company can deliver what many US-based manufacturers cannot, I say bring it on.... |
Ok, Sorry don't know all the abbreviations or terms so I have questions.
1. By L5 chipset in a Big 6 box do you mean put put the dual box L5 in a Single big six box ok why? What is the advantage of single big box and 2 small boxes?
2. I was going to get DSD is that the DSD128?
3. What is the difference between output tubes ECC 182 and others?
4. Definitely getting dueland caps.
5. What is the difference in 5Y3 rectifier and stock?
If I'm going to spend money I want it all tricked out. I'm thinking of the Sonore Rendu instead of Lampiator transport any thoughts?
Anyone have misgivings about spending vast sums of $$$$ with a small company in a foreign country that could close at any time leaving buyers with unserviceable, dead end, unsaleable, equipment?
Thanks, Steven |
Glory, the DSD is ready now!!!!
DSD128 is sublime. |
I think a dual mono L5 chipset in a Big 6 Box with DSD and VC with remote may be the way for you to go. That is the one I will be getting.... What does Gearhead know he is not a Lamp owner? Ironically, neither are you. You are the first and only proud owner of the "Mingzator." |
SGR,
I think a dual mono L5 chipset in a Big 6 Box with DSD and VC with remote may be the way for you to go. Balanced or SE, depending on if your whole system is already balanced. Duelund caps for sure, but they seem to have a 250hr break-in time, and go thru an M shaped break-in pattern.
You could also specify output tubes to be ECC182 and ask for 5Y3 type rectifier (may cost a bit extra).
Lampi DSD is great, BTW...not sure I can let this one go... |
Sorry as I have only heard and now own the 4. All I could ever want really. |
What does Gearhead know he is not a Lamp owner?
Get the L5 with D caps. Wait for DSD Gen. 4 as it takes L 4 Gen to perfect his work. When perfected his work is hard to beat by even the high $$$ builders.
Get the 182 tube. |
I've been talking with Gopher. I'm a friend of Jim Yorkshire and have heard his many times. Surely Glory, Agear, or Grannyring have some thoughts or experiences.
Thanks in advance. |
And then there is another Lampi wrinkle to consider. Lampizator DSD!!! Tubed purity and DSD make for an explosive combo.
I am checking out first production model (DSD-only) and whoa Mama, DSD128 is akin to master tape on an expensive RTR playback machine.
Beats my Qute which has a Linear PSU option, running DSD64 into the BNC.
Suhweeeeet! Its gonna be hard to part with this baby!!!
Lampi DSD will be a big seller...mark my words. Good think it can be retrofitted into even a single box L4 now. |
Grannyring,
Does your L4 have Duelands or Jensens? My L4 had Jensens and I found some music sounding a tad too soft/polite with decreased dynamics and PRAT. |
SGR, are you in the NYC/NJ area? There is going to be a Lampi rave mid October in NJ and LF himself will be there. You could get to hear them all and judge for yourself.
I believe there will be a L4/L5 and Big 6 there and possibly more cool Lampi stuff. The info is over at Audiocircle. |
Hi,
Right now I own PWD II and Bridge. A friend has a L3.5 I believe it sounds great. But I'm considering switching to Lampizator possibly a L5 set up. Any one compared this to L4 or Big Six? Any thought would be appreciated before I possibly switch. Also any comparisons to PWD II would be great as well. I'll be using it in a system featuring Coda amps and preamp with Legacy Aeris or the new Helix when it is available.
Thanks in advance. |
I agree Bill. Duelund is still king and having a few dudes (with industry insider accommodation) squawking on a thread is not convincing. I just thought it was interesting.... I'd like to hear other Big Six owners comment on the 3D comparison between the two DACs. I know some have Duelands like mine and I'm curious if the Jensens have anything to do with the L4 sweetness and 3D-ness. I'm willing to give up some of the raw resolution if the music can pull me in deeper. When I hear the terms "3D" and "musical" together in a sentence, I don't need to hear any more. Count me in. I am fatigued by in-your-face hifi. There is no shortage of that in the marketplace. It could be the Jensens or the ECC4o or both? The L4 with Duelunds still may be the sweet spot in the lineup? Other than the Dude, I have never heard Bill Grannyring Dion so gaga over a piece of electronics as he has been for that new L4....bravo. |
3,
You are stuck with a 40 tube! There is no replacement drop in Tube for the 40 . Have L send you a replacement tube socket for 182.
Old man Glory? Glory wisdom Gearhead. |
Funny, the leader of the pack is always the target and competitors always state they have something as good or better for less money. Duelund is king right now and we will see.
They may or may not be as good in a speaker, amp, dac etc......Need to try in these various applications first to see how they perform.
Still loving my L4! |
g,
Yes, my L4 had the stock Mullard ECC40 tubes. If the ECC40 tube was that deficient in sound quality, what gave the L4 its 3D magic and sweetness? Is the Bendix 6900 and others you listed drop-in replacements for the ECC40? And with those others will the 3D presentation be left intact?
I'd like to hear other Big Six owners comment on the 3D comparison between the two DACs. I know some have Duelands like mine and I'm curious if the Jensens have anything to do with the L4 sweetness and 3D-ness. I'm willing to give up some of the raw resolution if the music can pull me in deeper. |
My Big Six is involving, but to me not at the level of the L4's musicality, at least not yet. I've got about 200+ hrs on the Big Six and it's more of a "grab you by the throat" kind of DAC that has awesome resolution and can delineate images that the L4 left blurred, especially with complex passages. If it can float music out there instead of projecting it then the Big Six will probably be the last DAC I have. I'm hoping it has the 3D gene in its DNA... Interesting observations. Do you have Duelunds in there? Take forever to break in. Old man Glory may be right about the tube selection. Time will tell. Another capacitor alternative to the Duelunds that has appeared recently is the Jupiter Copper Flats. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0msk4f3cesm5tc1u0edukpsis3&topic=119876.msg1261678#new |
