You may want to do a little research. It seems the 6H6p is the same/equivalent tube as a 6N6p. From thetubestore dot com; The 6N6p tube is a Russian dual triode tube. This tube is often seen as 6N6p, 6N6PI, 6N6pi, 6H6p, 6N6p-i, 6N6n-i ,or 6H6n-i. The Chinese name for the 6H6p tube is 6N6 tube. The 6N6p is a fantastic tube for preamps and driver stages, and is even used as output tubes in the Little Dot MkIII headphone amp. It has been used by the tube DIY underground for many years and is now becoming better known in the mainstream. From the Lampizator website; First some facts: 6H6(Pi) is written in CYRYLLIC alphabet. That's why sometimes you can find the same tube written in latin which spells 6N6P.
To my knowledge this tube has been produced only in Soviet Union (the oldest sample I found was from 1974, the newest from 89.)
It is a genuine Soviet design, unlike most of their tubes which they copied from the West all the time. The closest equivalent is the Ecc182, E182CC although the pinout is different, .
We do not want to use the impulse variant 6N6P-i later named 6N30P. We want the good old 6N6P only. And a link; http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html |
The Gen 4 has a different architceture and different tubes mate better with it than Gen 3 architecture.
To find out of tubes can be rolled is public info. Do a google search!
6h6p is a smmoth more laid back sound and some people like a more forward hard driving sound. That is the yin/yang of tube rolling, as well as better rendition of different parts of the frequency range. |
Man all these different output tubes on different versions of the dac is very confusing. I have the L4 ver 3 with 6h6p tube. Lucaz makes a a lot of sing and dance about the virtues of this tube throughout his site and that it out performs all other tubes. He even states that it is being used in his website.
Yet I am reading that 6h6p is not in the current L4. Why?
In my manual, Lucaz has stated that the 6h6p cannot be rolled? Is that a lot of BS? |
"When I demos Lamp a year+ ago, Lukasz discourages tube rolling and doesn't apologies for his decision. So when did Lukasz changed his tune? Customers spoke up?"
I think there has been some mis-information going around with respect to tube rolling. I think, particularly with the ecc40s, Lukasz has cautioned customers that rolling is not worthwhile due to the fact that regardless of branding there are only two different variants.
On his flagship DAC's page he explicitly writes:
"Tube stage is supplied by dual mono, giant 5c3S tube rectified power supply (one can experiment with rolling different rectifiers like 5R4, 5c4, GZ34 , 5Y3, etc.)"
I also sat down with Lukasz last week and discussed the subject: he encourages it, but can offer limited feedback as he doesn't have access to the same plethora of American tubes we do due to the fact he's living in Poland.
In sum, roll to your hearts content! |
Bill, the Thor stuff is awesome to look at as well. Bravo.... |
Bill, I thought hard about going with a Level 5 because of the dual mono power supply but since the PS on Level 4 seems to be overbuilt as it is, we build a tubed power supply which is at least 400% oversized to provide the unheard of purity, authority and grunt. and considering the DAC market is not yet mature, I decided to opt for the less expensive L4G4, which seems to be a fully evolved design for Lukasz. Once that was decided, I didn't see a need to change much else. My specs included; 1. Whatever rectifier Lukasz has found to be the best, in his opinion. 2. Additional USB input. 3. Change S/PDIF input from an RCA to a BNC type. 4. Duelund capacitors. 5. Black faceplate. I decided it was not necessary to go with a balanced DAC. My preamp treats unbalanced and balanced input signals the same and then the signal is converted to balanced as it outputs through transformers. I know you like the Jensens but I found the temptation to go with the Duelunds too great to pass up. I will not know my rectifier options until I learn which tube Lukasz uses in my L4. I am curious whether folks are rolling signal tubes in the L4. It is hard to find information on what is used and I couldn't find much on the Lampi site, but I understand he may be currently using NOS E182CC tubes, which are the same as CV5766, and perhaps 6N6P. I understand he previously may have used ECC40 tubes? |
Mitch2
You will love it. Tell me about which options you ordered. No worries as once burnt in you will love it! |
None of the Lamp dacs are flat and 2D. Not the L3/4 nor 5 |
my friend has level 6. he is so ecstatic. it lists for 10k. |
L4 has potential but didn't like the stock tubes. It was too agressive and 2D. I hope this is not true since I have one on the way. What you describe is not what I have read described by reviewers, and is definitely not the sound I am expecting. Are most of you current owners rolling tubes to get the best from your L4G4s? |
10-23-13: Hifial writes: For the most part it has well thought of brands, that are not expensive (Sonogy,Muse,Bash,etc), that have been modified mostly by Fr. Richards. He builds his own speakers like the one we heard with the Lampizator which goes flat to 14 Hz, capable of 115 dB @16 Hz, true measurement. The speakers drivers have their own amps, outboard crossovers, etc. Wires are by Kimber and K-Works I think I get the picture - thanks for your response. I have no doubt that a system such as that can outperform one that is less synergistic but assembled with higher priced components. Regards, |
Yes, that M2 is a great amp. I have always had a soft spot or Thor amps as they are very special. I owned a set about 12 years ago and loved them.
World class sound that is more SET like than the M2, but also 30 watts of dynamic punch. I will soon post my virtual system as I have a couple of final touches left including silver speaker cables and a killer CDP/transport.
My speakers need more than 8 tube watts in my larger room and the Thor's are a gem. |
Hi Bill,
That system must sound so natural and heavenly. I thought you were driving your Coincidents with a First Watt amp?
Charles, |
Listening tonight and the music is so rich and inviting. I really like the sound of the L4 with the Jensen copper caps. Seems to be that perfect balance of resolution and musicality. Detail and body. Extended highs with rich mids and great mid bass.
My entire system is now tubes. My TRL Dude tubed preamp, the tubed Lampy, Thor TPA 30 monoblock tube amps w/many wonderful mods. I have a tubed CD transport/player on the way also. The more tubes the better! No kidding. Just magical.
Seems the Lampy takes a long time to finally settle in and complete the burn in process. |
When I demos Lamp a year+ ago, Lukasz discourages tube rolling and doesn't apologies for his decision. So when did Lukasz changed his tune? Customers spoke up?
L4 has potential but didn't like the stock tubes. It was too agressive and 2D. Might give another chance if I can tinker with the tubes. |
Wired with CAT7 cable. Wired is the way to go. Several months ago I replaced my generic ethernet cable with AQ CAT7 and it was HUGE improvement in every parameter. If you plan to keep PWD for a second system, it's worth a try. I also find replacing the 2 fuses with HiFi-Tuning Supreme (direction back to front) was another improvement. |
Hi,
Wired with CAT7 cable. |
Sgr, how's your PWD II Bridge connected to the computer? Wired or wireless? |
Metralla, the details of Father Richards system is not as important as you think. I say that because unless you can hear it you would think the parts do not add up to the whole. Before I heard it I never thought it would sound that good just from the brands used for most of the system. For the most part it has well thought of brands, that are not expensive (Sonogy,Muse,Bash,etc), that have been modified mostly by Fr. Richards. He builds his own speakers like the one we heard with the Lampizator which goes flat to 14 Hz, capable of 115 dB @16 Hz, true measurement. The speakers drivers have their own amps, outboard crossovers, etc. Wires are by Kimber and K-Works.
I can not imagine what Fr. Richards could do with more resources.
I hope this gives you enough info because I am not going to get into any further details of his system.
All I can tell you is your going to have to take it on faith how great sounding Fr. Richards system sounds. At least until you hear it for yourself.
|
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/10/22/lampizator-dsd-dac-first-listen/ |
10-22-13: Hifial writes
Father Richards system has been compared to ones costing $500,000+ in sound. I will not at this time describe the details of the system.
Fascinating post Hifial, but I would not mind reading a description on that system. I hope it would not distract from the trust of this thread. Regards, |
Yes, Jim is the best.
Oh, I still think about the decision. Did I really hear what I heard? Was I imagining things. Luckily another great friend, Wayne, was there until the wee hours and he remembers the same things.
A wide, deep, and spacious soundstage with well defined accurate imaging. This was seductive in itself. But the best part was the overall musicality. While listening one could here details and resonances in both voices and instruments that before I'd not heard or noticed. The brush strokes of instruments were just right. And prat, I found myself tapping along to the music on my iPad many times without being aware I was doing this. We listened to such musical talents as Mahler, Sinatra, Scott Joplin, Louis and Ella, and the Decembrists, (plus everything in between) the DAC did everything with utter aplomb and believability.
And for you all wondering about the TranspOrt, well rest assured it is a key part of the sound. While the Level 4 DAC and TranspOrt were in my home we disconnected the two and plugged the TranspOrt into the PWD II. Could it cause the PWD to sound even better than the PWD II and Bridge? Oh YEAH , the PWD II never sounded better.
So maybe I could save some money and just buy a Lampizator Transport and use it with the PWD II? Well to my pocket book's dismay, when if plugged the L TranspOrt into the L DAC magical things started happening again. Nothing like a Lampizator DAC and TranspOrt!
For you PWD II fans, (and I still am a big fan of the PWD II and Bridge and may still keep them for a second system!) while the Bridge can and does sound great here is at least one other combination that makes the PWD II sound even better. Of course the Lampy stuff does cost more when comparing new to new, but there are several used Lampizator DACs available here on the Gon that don't cost as much as a new PWD II and sound incredibly better I might add.
When and if the guys from Stereophile, the Absolute Sound, or even HP himself, get one of the Lampizator combos in their hands be prepared for a SOTA review.
I will be glad to share my experiences and setups with the Lampizator duo as soon they arrive and are energized.
Steven |
ALL felt it OUTCLASSED the EMM LABS.
What else would you expect from the Lamp? Was it the EMM rip $25K Dac ? |
I am a little surprised so many folks are selling the 4 for a 5 or 6 when the 4 is sooooo good. I don't want for more or better at all as my 4 is wonderful.
I better never hear these higher models or I may want one! |
Sgr,
You're fortunate to have a good friend who let you audition the Lampizator in your system, what's more conclusive than that? You eliminated all speculation and could purchase without second guessing or anxiety. Seems that you'll be very happy for a long time with this highly regarded DAC. |
Hifial,
I believe you are destined to be a fan boy! I'm a Lampi convert!
My friend Jim has been espousing the merits of his Level 4 (now for sale here as he's updating). I listened many times. We have the same speakers(Legacy Focus SEs). I owned the PWD II DAC. I thought our systems were very comparable until I brought my PWD over and placed it in his system. We let it warm up for two days before listening. Then the eye opening began. I thought my PWD II had died during transport. Jim's sound was very flat and uninvolving. I made every adjustment I could think of. Nothing helped. Then we wired in the Lampizator. Suddenly there was music in the room.
The next day, still disbelieving I brought the PWD back home and listened, hmmm it sounded pretty close or so I thought.
Jim then agreed to loan me his Lampy for the night and brought it over. After a couple hours of warm up, the Lampy started strutting her stuff. The next thing I knew it was 2:00 am and we were still listening.
My Level 5 with DSD will hopefully be delivered this week.
I can't wait.
It's good to hear great tidings from the RAVE.
I'll be glad to update my experiences to this thread as well.
Sgr. |
Great comments one and all! I better understand all the moving parts now. |
ATTENTION ALL!!
I was lucky enough to attend the RAVE at Deepak's, who is a hell of a nice guy, and I am also the guy who had Lukasz attend the NJ Audiophile's meeting on Sunday.
Even though Deepak and others had three setups and tried very hard to have a variety systems with different Lampizator DAC's to listen to it might have been better served to have one system tried and true.
Also as is typical at a RAVE equipment that others bring gets swapped in and out. This can make it hard to have a base for comparison.
By chance one of the Metro NJ/NY Audio Clubs I belong too was having one of their monthly meetings the next day. I asked Lukasz if he would be interested in attending so he could introduce himself and his DAC to our members. I also told him there was a chance we might be able to hear his DSD DAC in the system at the meeting. He graciously accepted.
Now I must say that it was very hard to tell how well the DSD DAC or even the BIG SIX sounded because we had no real reference point at Deepak.
But at the NJ Audiophile meeting that would not be a problem. Not with a top EMM LABS DAC and Transport along with equipment matching the quality of the EMM LABS.
This was my first time at this members house and one of the few times I was blown away by the sound I heard at a members house. It was a real treat when Lukasz first had a chance to hear Father Richards system. You could see his EYES pop open and his jaw drop. He knew right away that if we could put his DSD DAC in for a demo it was a system that would tell if he has the goods. Father Richards system has been compared to ones costing $500,000+ in sound. I will not at this time describe the details of the system.
After several hours of listening to the system including DSD from SACD through the EMM LABS Father Richards was gracious enough in letting Lukasz put in his DSD DAC. I brought some DSD files that Lukasz could add to what he planed on playing.
But before I describe what happens next let me tell you that Lukasz gave us a brief description of his work on DSD and thoughts on Audio. He also spent time in awe while listening to music through the system before we inserted his DSD DAC.
It only took a few bars of music for EVERYONE in the room to be able to hear what Lukasz's DSD DAC could do for the playback of music. You could hear people all over the room surprised at how well both Lukasz's DSD DAC and DSD done right could sound. AWE STRUCK is not significant enough to describe it.
Even Lukasz said he did not know it could sound that great.
ALL felt it OUTCLASSED the EMM LABS.
I am intrigued by the Lampizator. As some of you know it takes A LOT to impress my enough to be a FANBOY and post my enthusiasm. AS of now I need to first try the Lampizator PCM/DSD DAC in my system or one other that I am very familiar with.
Until then I give Lukasz's DSD DAC a BIG almost FANBOY.
By the way, the NJ Audiophile Society is planning on hosting a meeting for Lukasz,s Lampizator PCM/DSD in Jan of 2014. |
I'm not sure what was wrong, but the Omen Defs were just putting out a lot of glare and brightness. I know the full range driver and the super tweeters well and it was not something I encountered previously.
I also spent a week with the GM70s on my Definition mk2s with nanotech driver and clarity cap MRs on supertweeters and the sound was divine and never resembled top end we heard at the meet. Admittedly mine is a much more expensive Zu with a more advanced cabinet design... |
Grannyring,
I liked the sound that I heard on Friday night and seriously thinking about moving forward with L4 dac to be used with usb and JRiver setup.
My current setup is battery powered ack dac, dodd preamp, response audio modified jolida 302/502 and logitech touch. The primary speakers that I listen to are the Soul Superfly in the spare bedroom. The basement rig with Omen Def is setup for HT right now and the last time I had used them as 2-channel was around 6 months ago and my recollection is fuzzy.
The speakers (Omen Def) were the only thing that stayed the same in the basement and everything around it was totally different (speaker cables, power cord, transport, dac, amp). When Lukasz and I were listening to the Bigsix Friday night after setting up Omen Def the sound was 3D like in the room but after we moved the various equipment I felt there was bit of glare/harshness for the 5 minutes that I listened to the setup with the equipment.
Initially we had setup the Soul Superfly in the basement since that is my primary 2-channel speaker but the speakers did not work out in the basement. They sound flat in the room due to the room size (~13 x 30). |
Some race feedback from the circle:
rawhit
Jr. Member
Posts: 15
Great gettogether!
« Reply #75 on: Today at 03:35 am »
Quote
This was my first NY/NJ rave and it was a blast.
Major props to Deepak and Chhaya for opening up their beautiful home for us.
I've been to a couple of CAFs and RMAF but nothing beats being able to interact with manufacturers and listen to some awesome gear in a friendly, home like setting. Was fun putting a face to audiocircle monikers.
Lukasz and Merrill are great guys to talk to and build some awesome products.
I finally understand the buzz around Lampi DACs and the GM70 amp. Amazingly natural sounding and just get out of the way of music. Lampi DSD is the real deal, very liquid and gripping presentation.
Oh, and Taras A100 is a killer amp too. Almost tube like in its ability to flesh out the textures.
Listening to all this great gear has given me some serious GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)
Some pics from my camera can be found here http://img.gg/sw9PINT |
Grannyring,
I believe Gopher and Shadowlight are referring to the speaker amp synergy and not so much the dac. |
Grannyring I agree that is why I shy away from these marketing raves. |
Speakers and dac synergy? Help me understand? Did you also use the dac as a preamp?
Just tell us how it compared to the other dac in your system please. I assume you listen to music on that system regularly. |
The meet was a really fun event, but I think the sound in the main room (basement) was good not great. The Zu Omen Defs we used weren't playing well for some reason and we had some excessive brightness. Still sounded good though.
We swapped out the speakers and eventually put in Taras amp with the Big Six and got great sound down there, but they were 4ohm speakers and the GM70 didn't like that.
Overall the sound was good to very good, but we didn't get into the realm of excellence which I know for a fact its capable of.
Speaking with Lukasz last night the gear made a second showing into an Audio club meeting in New Jersey on Sunday where the DAC alone was inserted into an already optimized/synergized rig where no one had even heard of LampizatOr and the feedback was outstanding. I've been trying to find discussion of that meeting... |
Agear,
As a host of the event I had limited listening session with the DAC's (the night before) and what I heard I enjoyed it very much. On Saturday I got maybe 5 minutes all day to sit down and listen to the GM70, transport and DAC. The one thing that I would have to say is the synergy between my speakers and Lamp was not optimal (the basement setup) and we swapped a lot of equipment around which kind of made it difficult to judge the setup. I would say the high light for me was the DSD dac. Next time I will have to spend more time with the setup and take corrective action before everyone starts arriving. |
rave report please. AC is down, and there are some vagaries on Nervosa.... |
The 6900 is uber expensive costing 20x more than a nice Tungsram 40. So yeah, I have no doubts it SHOULD be better! |
I am sure the 40 is a good sounding tube but it's no 6900! With the 182/EF 800 you can do left/right brain with the Tele/Amperex tubes. |
The 6900s are very expensive. I see 4 on EBay with the bid starting at $1K!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Matched-Quad-Bendix-MU-6900s-the-Holy-Grail-of-Audio-Tubes-/261306304173?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd711c6ad
So no less than $500 a pair! Glory could be right about price to performance ratio.
There is ONE good roll for the ECC40 and its the Tungsram brand! Its shorter, more robust and allegedly has an even clearer midrange! All the other brands of Ecc40s are identical and made by Phillips despite the branding. A Spanish guy has a pair on ebay for about $25 a pair plus shipping. I scooped up the Eastern European ones a day or 2 ago, so be on the llokout for them.
Unlike what Glory says, i think the ECC40s are GREAT sounding, but the Phillips ones are not so robust as they are hit and miss with durability! For the money, they have the best performance and the Tungsram version is the way to go, apparently.
Glory, link me up by email for some scoop! |
Abruce,
Tubed VS solid state is just as one would think... The SS rectified was faster and punchier, with tighter bass but still with a good 'floating in space' effect... The tube rectified has a touch more analog feel to it and a deeper soundstage.
That is all I could say at this point, as I have had very little listening to this L4G4 yet. But with that said, my findings match everyone else's in the thread. Glad I have one!
And Lukasz seems to be a very hard worker, cranking these babies out and making sure everyone is happy!
|
Interesting Norman. Thanks for sharing. I may have to try both then...
My Lamp has ecc40's. Not many replacements for them. |
Wisnon, Are you using 6900s as output tubes in the Lamp? If so, which model? I have the G4L4 with ecc40 and solid state recification. |
Bendix 6900 tube sucks. Don 't buy it. To much $$$ for what you get!!! |
JRiggy,
I just ordered the Tungsol and will be able to tell you my impressions in a week or so. A pal with stock 6x5 rectifier and ECC182 output tubes did tell me this though:
"Bendix 6900(pair) is here. Initial impression is that it sounds absolutely awesome. Fast, but not overly aggressive, top end has more sparkle but not bright, midrange is stunning. I thought it would be cold, but actually it is warmer than the 7119. Soundstage is even more layered and 3D. Great match with the Bendix 5852 recti. No buyers remorse here!"
and
"Last I heard, the Tungsrams were only a subtle but good change over the Phillips/Mullard/Siemens, etc ECC40s. Tungsrams are shorter and probably more robust.
Originally I had the Soviet 6U5C for recti, Sylvania vintage was good - fuller sound, Tung Sol 6x5 built on that with a warmer punch, Bendix 5852 now in which is more linear than all, detailed, transparent, full, but colder than the Tung Sol. With the 6900 in, it compensates now for that lack of warmth in the recti and just sounds great." |
Both are glorious in this dac. Can't go wrong with either. |
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6x5 is technically better, but 5Y3 has more rolling options. |
Which rectifier tube is most desirable in a new L4G4, 6X5 or 5Y3? |
