i think Lamm amps are among the best. what makes you say that the M1.1 is obsolete? did you mean simply that it was no longer a current model?
you didn't ask whether your WP7's will match well with the M1.1's......but i'll comment anyway. i think that the M1.1's might be a little short on dynamics to take full advantage of the potential of the WP7. OTOH it will sound great.....just not as enegetic and coherent on musical peaks and high SPL's as a higher current amp might be.
i have not heard the M1.2 so i can't comment on that. |
Mike,
Thanks for your input. As you probably know, Lamm intro'd the 1.2 at CES as the replacement for the 1.1. I simply meant the 1.1 is no longer available from Lamm.
I'm on my third amplifier with the 7's. Started with a BAT VK75SE, followed by Ayre V1-X and currently breaking in a pair of Parasound JC-1's. Each of these amps have unique strengths and weaknesses but none TO MY EARS have produced the sound I'm looking for. I loved the rich, organic sound
of the BAT, but it lacked bottom end extension and control.
I'm looking for an organic, refined, textured sound which
highlights the music and not the gear.
BTW, most of my listening is done in the 80-85 db range with peaks to 90. All cabling is Transparent Reference XL with MM. |
Bob, in the price range you are in you should be able to get it all. again, i think very highly of the Lamm amps.....but they like speakers that are easier to drive than the Wilsons. i have owned WP3/2's, 5.1's and 6.0's. even though the WP7 is somewhat less difficult to drive they are still at their best with a high current amp.
"I'm looking for an organic, refined, textured sound which
highlights the music and not the gear."
the Lamm definitely fits your description but i think might not be wholey synergisitic with your speakers. you need an amp with balls.....but also with 'soul'. i use the Tenor 300 watt Hybrids.....more money than the Lamm 1.2's but with quite a bit more current capability (doubles down into low impedences.....600 watts into 4 ohms.....ideal for the WP7). i have compared my previous reference amps, the Tenor 75 watt OTL's to the Lamm 1.1's on numerous occasions.....the Tenor was the clear preference. now the Tenor 300 watt hybrids outperform the OTL's in most every way but have no real-world current or dynamic limitations.
Tenor will also have a 150 watt Stereo version out very soon that will be cheaper than the Lamm but also have enough power for the WP7's.
the Lamms are excellent and will do the things you are looking for.....but the Tenors will do those things better (to my ears) and give you the dynamic head room your WP7's will benefit from.
the Tenor Hybrids don't sound like tubes or ss.....they sound like music.....and just get out of the way of the event. |
Hi Bob, Have you tried the Bat 150se mono amps yet? Not only will you double the wattage of the 75se, you also will double the energy storage to 1200 joules. At the same time you cut the output impedance in half. These factors will improve the bottom end performace considerably over what you heard with the stereo 75se. Also all of the other qualities (organic) that you enjoyed with the 75se will be improved upon. If you decide to go the Tenor hybrid route please audition them before you buy. While the opinions of others regarding the Tenor hybrid mono or stereo amp should be considered I urge you to please listen and decide for yourself. I recently auditioned side by side the Tenor OTL against the Tenor Hybrid and in my IMO the OTL's sounded much much more like real music then the hybrid. All the best! Tom |
I think you should really go to the ML 1.1 the tube ones. not the solid state. if you hear the ML1, now 1.1, you will see what I mean. I had two pairs at one time, sold them, regretted eversince. my only complaint is that with only 90 watts, speaker selection should be considered. amazing amps. amazing.!!! I would even go as far as to get rid of my wilsons to find a more suitable speaker for the Lamm. however, Lamm will rec your speakers with the 1.1 also. Heard the exquisite by Kharma? |
Bob: check out this link:
http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/ces2004/standout_lamm.shtml |
Thanks to everyone for your input.
Mike: The Tenor's would be a consideration but next to impossible to audition and out of my price range. Impossible to find used since they just came out.
Tom: I really liked the BAT and probably should have tried to find another.
Lotuss: I've also considered the 90 W tube Lamm but fear I'll run into the same issues I had with the BAT VK75SE.
I've heard the Kharma 3.2 with the Tenor 3.2's and EMM front end. The Kharma's were nice but lacked bottom end extension. I'm sure the Exquisite's are incredible but at a whole different price point.
Rgairns: Thanks for the link. |
Bob, the JC-1s take lots of break-in so put some old tubes in your preamp and let it play 24/7 for thirty days and the thin sound will disappear and it slams into focus at about two months 24/7 of music.....The WP7 to my ears is the best WP since the W3P2 so the Parasounds should be a decent match as have similar speakers here.....If you are using balanced the connectors in the JC-1 are bright for the first thirty days and mellow out after that.....Enjoy your new speakers! |
Bob Crump: you've commented many times in various threads about the break-in required on the JC-1s. I don't doubt you, but I'm curious why these amps seem to need so much, and why isn't there something Parasound can do about it. I mean, new purchasers of these amps must go through some real pain and frustration (I hope they are being adequately warned, but a lot of buyers wouldn't believe the warnings anyway and would just go straight to disappointment). Is there something about the design of this product that makes it special in this regard?
(Apologies if you've addressed this question elsewhere.) |
All amps I am aware of take about two months to settle down and stop being a moving target. AC, the signal, takes about thirty days to settle down and the DC portion of the amp takes a minimum of 45-60 days to settle down. At sixty days you will find most amps are a bit too sweet and most folks look in their cable library to find something brighter than what they used at 30 days....I voiced the JC-1s for complete warm-up and complete break-in and to be just slightly warm of neutral when fully cooked. The unit uses some exotic rectifiers, hyperfast/soft recovery types, that just take a while to settle down. I am not aware of other amps that utilize these except those in the aftermarket that modify amplifiers. The JC-1 is a factory hot rod and is the best we can do in a very powerful SS amp built without much in the way of compromises. Just went through break-in here of my personal set of JC-1s and the nastiest part was as I neared 30 days the amps just got thin in the lower mids/upper bass. They spent almost thirty more days sounding like tube amps and woke up at about two months with an attitude......Oh, I am not a dealer any longer for the amps (ran out of preamp customers more than a year ago) and I do not work for Parasound except on a per job basis.....I wanted Bob to know that the thin sound goes away at a month before he gave up and spent a lot more money for other amps..... |
Bob Crump: Thanks for your input.
Bob |
Yes, thank you Bob Crump. |
In response to Mikelavigne
My Lamm M1.1s don't have any problem controling of providing high output with my Wilson Watt Puppy 7's. Remember these are a nominal 4ohm speaker (they don't dip below 3.7ohm) and they are 93-94db efficient. I don't know what kind of power requirements you need, I used an EAD Powermaster 2000 prior with 1000watts into 2 channel's and the LAMM has AMAZING speed and control over the EAD which was awesome in it's own right. The bass is even tighter and images even better.
I still would like to try some ML1.1's on my WP7's. |
I listened to WP7's through the LAMM LL2 pre and ML1.1s with Siltech cables using a wide variey of music (excluding Rock and Rap) and never once felt the job wasn't being completed. I never turned the volume controls past 9 o'clock and the music was always fleshed out and dynamic. If you can swing the ML1.1s (now 2.2) do it. If you have a concern about power, get the M2.1/2.2. They are sonically close and over 200 watts but run Class A to around 30 or so watts of power. I own the M2.1s and drive Piega C10 Limiteds with them wonderfully. I was contemplating the WP7s with my LAMM gear because of the awesome experience I had at CSA Audio where I bought my LAMM LL2 preamp. It's going to be the WP7s against the ESP Loudspeakers Concert Grand SI. I can't wait. |
Case closed! The ESP Loudspeakers Concert Grand SI wins out. Having a broken in pair of WP7's in my 25 by 16 room for a month I finally received the ESP speakers. I greatly respect the sound of the WP7's and yes they are better known but when it came down to the music, they were just not as involving as the ESP speakers. I found myself forgetting what I was trying to achieve in the audition and listening to the music. The WP7s never did that for me. The Concert Grands presented an great soundstage, exhibited speed and a very natural and organic performance with a wide variety of music. All that and they are sexy looking too! I haven't had the smaller Bodhrans here but hear they arre a tremendous value and preform in the same way. Seek out the ESP Loudspeakers. I'm glad I did! |
