Depends on the design philosophy too, and whether it "works." One
of the best sounding speakers I ever heard were the Shun Mooks whose wooden
enclosures resonate like crazy, intentionally, like violins.
In any event, the absence of boxy sound was the reason I went for Gallos in the
first place. I've never heard conventional (i.e., wood enclosed) speakers -
EXCEPT the Shun Mooks -- that didn't sound "boxy" after listening
to the super-clean Gallos. To each his own, YMMV and all that :-) |
If you get close to the speaker when it is playing even moderately loudly and place a stethoscope on the surface, you will hear much more noise (mostly in the bass and mid-bass) coming from it than from the cabinet of any really first rate speaker (B&W, KEF, Revel, etc). This issue is a major design target for most high and even not so high end speakers - an acoustically non-resonant cabinet. Given that this has a metal structure, the resonance is not bad and pretty well controlled, but compared to a top wooden MFB it is really not so great. I notice that the sound seems cleaner, but of course this could be just auto-suggestion. Double blind testing would confirm whether it is an issue, but I am happy with the now totally inert surfaces that I have on my 3.1s.
best, Doug |
I honestly don't believe that resonance is any kind of an "issue" with the Ref 3s. Just tried to stimulate it on my pair with some pretty loud music and was amazed at how NON-resonant these petite speakers actually are. Their forerunners, the Reference 2 series, were far more resonant (I still have the four-ball-per-side Gallo Ultimates) but sounded great anyway, though not nearly up to the sonics of the Ref 3 (3.0, 3.1) series. Dave |
I can't figure out why they are charging almost twice as much, with only minor tweaks to two of the drivers.
Additionally, the new speaker needs to address the real Achilles heel of the previous design, which was the very considerable resonances of the (metal!!!) 'cabinet' (frame). I found that covering many of the exposed metal flat surfaces with adhesively backed neoprene killed most of the very noticeable frame resonance. For about $175 you can get enough 1/8 inch neoprene from VibraSystems to do the job. No one seems to have ID'ed this issue, but my listening tests suggested that this treatment of the metal surfaces does clean up the speaker a bit. Of course a direct A/B comparison would be best. I suspect that if John Atkinson at Stereophile ever reviewed this speaker (either the 3.1 or the new 3.5), he would climb all over the resonance issue. Tribute to the rest of the design that they sound as good as they do.
best, DW |
Thanks Barry and Dopogue, I realize there are many different options for Gallo speaker stand upgrades but I would like to hear someones impressions of the Mapleshade stands. I am particularly interested in what effect it has on the bass. |
Those don't offer much height, though, compared to something like the Stein stands. |
Hello Bean,
This gentleman had something similar made...
http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vopin&zz1147037773&viewitem&o9&1233852511#item
and seems very happy with the results. |
Has anyone tried the Mapleshade stands on the 3.1's and, if so, how did they work out? |
Scott and I traded a few emails, and he was great to work with, but in the end I decided to work with a family friend who builds custom furniture locally. He and I were able to sit down and discuss face to face exactly what I wanted, and all I'll have to pay for is materials. I should be getting the stands very soon, and I'll put up a separate post, with; pictures, details, and my impressions of how the stands, and the different things I've tried in the interim, effected the sound. |
Any updates or pics of your custom Stein Audio stands, Barry? |
Well my Stein Audio stands should be here towards the end of this coming week, so I'll shoot a note off to Paul over at Soundocity about the outriggers once the stands are here.
Thanks RW, Barry |
The fellow who sold me the outriggers for my Ref. 3.1s has a link on his site for a wide variety of spikes. Perhaps there is something there that will work properly with the Stein Audio stands...? http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htmGood Luck! -RW- |
Hi Dan,
Well as Dopogue, mentions those spikes are no longer available. Also my stands are different than the stands you see on the Stein Audio website. They are of my own design, that I asked Scott to produce for me. My stands are larger than the stands on the website. They are 1.5" taller and 4" wider and deeper, so even without the outboard spikes the footprint will be wider still. My design can be seen here...
http://www.photodump.org/stored26/BC_Gallo_Stand.JPG
I also contacted another member here who made his own outriggers, and I may make some similar to those. We'll see. |
Those spikes on the Stein Audio site are unobtainium. I know because I came
up with the idea of using these particular spikes in the first place. They were
sourced from Parts Express and cost $14 for four of them, but left the
PartsExpress catalog years ago. If anyone knows where to get them now, please
post the info because I know a couple folks who would love to find them. They
do work like a charm under my Ref 3s. I believe that the stands pictured on
the linked site belong to KK Mui, with whom I collaborated along with Scott
Stein originally. It was KK's idea, BTW, and he made it happen. Dave |
"maybe a little more if I decide to add custom spikes" Barry - so I'm clear the options are: 1) reuse Ref spikes on the Stein stands 2) buy new spikes for the Stein stands If you go with option 2 then you get something like this: http://www.steinaudio.com/images/IMG_9263_4_2_.JPGand it looks like you will get increased stability as the spikes are pushed out all the way to the corners. RW - Agree the Refs 3s would not make good horizontal center channel speaker :) No dogs here, but we do have cats and birds (I know, I know...). Love to watch the cats on aggressive surround sound discs: the head/ear darts from speaker to speaker are hilarious. The parakeet loves the music and sings right along with it. LOUDLY! He goes crazy when I play a nature/bird song CD. Probably shouldn't tease them like that, but it's better than tying a balloon to the cat's tail! |
LikeCoiledSteel wrote:
"I cannot see the Outriggers being more stable than my stands. "
"Who knows? I wasn't able to find any stands on the Sound Anchors website that were specifically for the Gallos. I *do* know that my speakers are quite stable now, much more so than stock. And I'm betting the Sound Anchor stands cost a *wee* bit more than what I paid."
I was referring to the "outriggers" on the new 3.5's, not your aftermarket ones. They seem like a good deal. The 3.5 ones look cheap to me and is a hard pill to swallow at double the price, regardless of the other changes. The Gallo stands are not on the SA site, but you can see mine on page 4 of the Gallo AVS thread. I think they were $500/pair, but since I bought my 3.1's used, they came free with the set.
Steel |
Well in that case RW, an excellent purchase. I may add a set of those to the bottom of the stands that Scott is building for me for even greater width. Thanks for the info! |
Barry wondered:
"Not to pick nits, but isn't it more like $200 since you need to buy 2 sets of out-riggers at $100 each?"
Weeeelllll, I contacted the company owner, Paul, and was able to negotiate a price of $99 + shipping for 2 sets, enough to do both of my front speakers. I bet if you referenced my conversation, and asked him nicely, he might accommodate you, too...
LikeCoiledSteel wrote:
"I cannot see the Outriggers being more stable than my stands. "
Who knows? I wasn't able to find any stands on the Sound Anchors website that were specifically for the Gallos. I *do* know that my speakers are quite stable now, much more so than stock. And I'm betting the Sound Anchor stands cost a *wee* bit more than what I paid.
As for the sound, hard to say. The speakers sounded really good before, and they still sound really good. I know for a fact that they sound much better upright than they do on their sides - and this was the situation once my daughter's (BIG) puppy blew thru the room and took one down. =8^0
-RW- |
Just for yucks, here is a picture I mocked up of how the stand will look...
[img]http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=129755&stc=1&d=1231954709[/img]
I'll use the threads for the spikes in the stock base to bolt it to the custom base, and then fill the custom base with sand or shot.
The added mass, and with of the base, should do a good job of adding additional stability, and the additional 7.5" in height should do a good job of raising the projected sound stage. |
I think many are jumping the gun regarding the price of the 3.5's. Let's see how they come out and then jump all over them if they don't meet expectations. |
Hi Tpsonic,
Yours are more than Reference IIs, as your speakers consist of 3 woofer units on the paralax (sp?) stands. Somewhere between the Ultimate and Reference versions ;~) I recently sold my Ref IIs, but I still have my Polly sphere'd Solos, and those speakers are still functioning perfectly some 13 years later. Along with the forward migration of the CDT, I would have liked to have seen it mounted between two of the base modules so that the sound would be even more of a point source. I had spoken to Anthony about this many years ago. What I'd really like, is to see the Aluminum sphere'd Solos put back on the market. I really think that those were some of his best speakers, and I think they could be priced very attractively now that he is in a position to put "the economics of scale" behind them. |
Barry_e_cohen:Yes,the Reference 2.I own a modified pair(systempost).The tweeter needs to be moved forward to allow phase alignment.Probably the only flaw in the original,other then the expense of the aluminum spheres and the fact that Gallo didn't support the CDT tweeter.No way to replace damaged units,other than to buy another set of speakers.Hopefully they will support the new CDT for a longer period.If not,the threes will begin stacking up on the side-lines:( |
Not to pick nits, but isn't it more like $200 since you need to buy 2 sets of out-riggers at $100 each? I've contacted Scott Stein about a custom base of my own design, and I think the price will be in the same ball-park, maybe a little more if I decide to add custom spikes. My design is different than what is currently pictured on Scott's site. |
Wow,$6000.00! What is he smoking? I use a custom made stand from Sound Anchor for my 3.1's. They give them an 8" lift and weigh 50 lbs. That gives me the height and bass improvement for $2500 less. I cannot see the Outriggers being more stable than my stands. Hell, the Mapleshade stands are a far better bargain. As far as the other improvements, I never had a problem with the current woofer, and how much better can the new sphere sound? It seems like the drivers are the same, only the shape and angle have changed.
I cannot see these moving. The Outriggers look cheap to me also, and there are plenty of pre-owned 3.1's selling much less than retail.
Steel |
Yeah, thanks RW. ~$100 for out-rigger 3.1 supports is a reasonable price. Did you notice an improvement in the sound after installing them? Placing mine on stone blocks made a noticeable difference in image height, but only a slight difference in bass. But then, the bass is pretty darn tight and articulate to begin with.
Your thoughts please, Mr.RW |
Thanks RL!
And you're not alone ;~) |
Barry, here are some links to the outriggers (I bought the "economical" ones, I'm a well-known skinflint)
http://www.soundocity.com/economical_products.html
http://www.soundocity.com/Gallo%20Reference%203.1.jpg
-RW- |
RL,
Any details on those out-riggers?
Thanks, Barry |
Wow, $5800 clams per pair - almost double the price of the 3.1s. They would have to sound INCREDIBLY superior to make them worth that money. And I'm not too keen on the base/outriggers, they look cheesy IMHO. I already have outriggers on my 3.1s, paid $100 for 'em...
-RW- |
Tpsonic,
You mean like the old Reference II...
[img]http://www.roundsound.com/photos/about/bronzeref.jpg[/img]
or Solo...
[img]http://www.roundsound.com/photos/about/solo205.jpg[/img]
;~) |
Neil Gader says they're "easier to drive", quoting 4-ohm 87db sensitivity. But the original Reference 3 and 3.1s (I have the Ref 3s) are 8-ohm, 88db sensitive, so what gives? Anyone know if the 3.5s have the same dual (woofer) voice coils as the originals? |
I can attest to the superior sound of the CDT tweeter.I'm a bit surprised that they haven't moved to a two-way with a multiple mid/woofer arrangement.Might improve the impedance question and bring up the efficeincy. |
|
Tpsonic,
The 5s are still in the works, actually says they are "shipping now" on the web site...
http://www.roundsound.com/reference-5-ls-speakers.html |
I'm a big fan of 3.1's being an owner myself...I think they should have grown a bit in height. Would love to hear them and compare. |
What ever happened to the Gallo 5s?? Those were designed as a dipole.A few pictures were available,then the speakers disappeared.What gives. |
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