Seems like there is a new set up separates from Esoteric. The P02 D02. Hven't seen any info out there at all, but it is for sale already at retailers. Not a substitute of the P03 D03 as expected, that are still selling as well, but a new category in between de 01s and 03s. DACs and inputs seem like an upgrade of the K01.
Anyone has any info, or heard of this? You can read about it at Esoteric parent company home page (in Japan but in English).
Price in Europe is 3.000 Euros higher than the 03s per unit (so +6000 EUros higher in total)
Hi, I am not familiar with Legacy speakers. I read the review in Absolute Sound. It is a lot speaker for 9k. I recommend some other speakers to audition. From Focal 1038be (it is also a lot of speaker for 9k), From Magico S5, From Dali Epicon 8(another fine ex. of speaker with ribbon tweeter) and From Sonus Faber Amati Futura ( its sweeter, warmer and rounded balance matches Esoteric's slightly forward and dry balance).
Legacy Focus SE...with this rig they amaze me at what they are able to produce! Thinking of upgrading to the one of the following; new Focus SE with AMT tweeter assembly, Legacy AERIS (amazing speaker), or Legacy Whisper DSW edition once power subs are considered for addition....
Good decision. You can upgrade your transport later. You can also transfer all your cds (as for the sacds some people use a special program on sony ps3 and transfer it) to lossless flac files and use your usb on D02.
I use terminal A and and turn off terminals B and C. I didnt try the other option. I cant use 100k universal option with D-02. Also when I am using sacds with d02 sometimes the clock doesnt lock or takes longer to lock in. When this happens I turn off the dac, and the clock locks in without a problem. This happens rarely only with some sacds.
It is G0rb. The clock makes a big difference with both converters. I use DA6300 as an interconnect and 8n-a2800 as AES. I tried the opposite configuration but 8n-a2800 was less resolute and slightly warmer as an interconnect. I prefer filter off in good recordings and especially vocals, but with lesser recordings I prefer short delay 1 in d-02 and fir with d-03. Sacd is great with both dacs. D02 is holographic with pin point imaging but slightly dry and forward. I would go for TAD cr1 or r1. They have life like dynamics and incredible resolution. Their only sin is that they are a bit forward and very slightly thin sounding in mid- treble region. My favorite is Stella Utopia.
Eelii & Pharma: I am thinking of taking a step-wise upgrade path with my P-03U/D-03 combo over the next year and was thinking of upgrading my D-03 to D-02 and keeping my clock and P-03U transport. I know there are modes above 176.4 that are not accessible in the D-02 without the matching P-02 transport but that P-03U and D-0 can work together. What are you thoughts on D-02 given additional time to break in and what you've been able to hear since February? Thanks!
how do you have the clock out terminals connected to DAC an transport? Do you use both out terminals A from clock to transport and DAC and turn off terminals B and C,
or use A1 for DAC and B1 for transport, and turn off A2 and B2 (and both Cs)?
Yes that is the way it should be. And is why I wanted to try out the clock once more and would not have ordered without listening to it first.
As I said, with the 03s I had the old G-0rb home for a try out twice. WHile I think I could hear a difference, that was to the small side of things, not always for the best, and after a while decided that my findings were not conclusive at all. So both times I decided not to go for it, given price and the improvement I got. Was surprised given what I read all over, but it was what I heard.
So with the 02s I also got to demo the same G-0rb, which haven't been sold still... to demo it. And the difference this time around was evident and affected all aspect of sound. Without entering into specific details of where it got better, I will say the listening experience was much more enjoyable. So I ordered the new G-0. This was an easy decision this time. It took me very little listening to have it clear. If cost is not a problem, the difference is very high.
WIth the G-0, I can say that the improvement was even better. Was not like going from no clock to a clock, but still again all improved more. SO in my system the difference between the 2 clocks are also evident, being the new superior. It does basically the same thing with the music, but to a greater extend. And still breaking in. But sounded fantastic almost from day 1.
So if it is not the clock model that makes the listenable difference, since I would have bought the old model too if the new was not out, it can only be, in my case 2 things that made me not hear this differences before so clearly
The 03s models benefit less of this (doubt it) or given it's less resolving nature, the effect is less evident.
or my system was not capable of showing this up. I tend to think it may be a mix of both, but weighting the second much more. The only major change in my system in between try outs really is in the speakers. Although it was a big one: went from the B&W 800Di, to the TAD R1. The B&W I do like them very much and I think for the cost they deliver big time. But they can not compare to the R1s in any aspect of sound (as you would hope and expect too given price difference...). So here is where I think the explanation can be.
As for cables, the Esoteric 6100 BNC for clock and the 2 DA6300 for digital are also by far best I've heard with these. Guess is synergy or that they are designed with these units in mind. The 6300 makes a big difference with any other cable I have tried. I would love to try the PCs, but having a hard time finding them for a try out. And also I am quite happy with the sound I am getting so if I can or find a good opportunity I will give them a try but not really actively looking at it. The rest of cables seem to work well. I have also a pair of 6300 form the DAC to the pre, and SR for PC. SC are Siltech Emperor. The warmer nature of the SR and the Siltech may also help to get a musical presentation, along with some tubes in the chain (in my case ARC 40 anniversary pre).
As for filters I leave that off in all cases. For CDs I use the mode they recommend with the P02: the ES link3. For SACD I do DSD. SCADs are fantastic. Nad CDs are very good as well, but if the recording is poor you can tell. But that is the way it should be I think. Transmit what is there, not alter it. But even in these cases the listening I find it very enjoyable.
Regarding clock, are you using the G-0 or the G-0rb?
Another observation is that some cds sound better with homogeneous harmonics and better musicality in 88/96k (or x2) than 176/192k (or x4) and some sound better at plain 44k. As for the filters s-dly1 is better with plain 44k, but I prefer fir or no filter with higher sampling rates. Filter off option makes vocals more natural. Lesser or relentless recordings sound better with D03 due to its more laid back, slightly warmer and less revealing nature. On the other hand D02 is absolutely neutral and it reveals everything without changing anywhere. To me clock makes equally big difference on both D03 and D02.
For now, I enjoy no upsampling and short delay 1 filter or no filter with most cds. When I use D03 no filter is my favorite setting. I use upsampling with the new 32 bit fim cds (they are remastered or mastered with 32 bit processing and 88 or 96k in most cases, so I use matching upsampling rate) or xrcds. Brightness issue improved a lot with the new Acrolink BNC cables that I use with the clock. Also another observation is that the ac cables make a lot of difference tonally (more bass, better bass slam, less bright, etc..). Slight harshness may also be power cable related, so I will try Nordost Odin and the rare Esoteric/Acrolink 7n-pc9300, 9100 or the new 7500 as well.
About slight harshness, I observe it only with some cds never with sacds or well recorded cds. It may also the revealing power of the DAC. It cant change a bad remaster into a good one. I will try p02 just to hear if 352khz upsampling (similar to DXD) and the new aes link would make a difference. (p01vuk does 176 or 192k upsampling)
I absolutely agree with your comments regarding the clock. It makes it more musical, "more analog" with better dynamics. It sounds like areal event rather than a reproduction of it with the clock. Also the sound stage is now rock solid and bigger. It is more "3D".
These things with the clock are even more impresive. I have tried it in the past (the old model) with the P03 D03 and found little improvement. Had it home twice and never went for it.
Dont know why but with the 02s and the new G01 the improvement is very nice and evident. It may have to do with the fact that my speakers now are diferent and more resolving or the new componets are, or a mix. But the adition of the clock makes a large improvement I never heard before with this kind of gear. I recomend it.
Interesting and quite extensive try out. Congrats. That is the way to go.
I am not sure if when you get the P02 your impression of a bit of harsh and forward will change or not. I think likely not but we will see.
I don't know why you are getting that. Has to be system related or cables. or maybe taste/preference. The line between detailed and harsh can be thin. And these are detailed all right. but I do find them very musical too. More so with playing time.
I now added the new G-01. Increased musicality all around alongnwith the rest of things. But most impressive right now is the dynamics, impact and weigth of presentation. It is quite something.
For now my verdict is that D02 is one of the most detailed converters around. Unfortunately it is neither one of the smoothest nor the most musical with cds. It can be a bit harsh and forward with some material. Compared with it Accuphase is smoother but uninvolving and also seriously lacking in bass. D03 also is smoother but less detailed and smaller in sound stage. I have high hopes regarding the new dCS Vivaldi...
My dealer will bring a p02 ,so I will compare p02/d02 with p01/d03 and 2 transports with d02. Next month I am planning to compare it with the new dCS Vivaldi if I can get a hold on to a demo Vivaldi DAC or maybe system and Soulution 745.
When I compared p03/d03 with p01vu/d03 (note that vu version of the p01 is better than regular p01) I had the same finding. P03/d03 was too laid back, lacking bass impact and body and was flat. p01vu changed the sound dramatically. It works well with d02, but I think d03 is more back rows, while d02 front. D02 sounds more forward with somehow more ambient information about sound stage.(usually forward sounding electronics give less ambient information.)
I simply found more emotion in some recordings (for ex: Diana Krall The Girl in The Other room SACD, Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here SACD, ZAZ les passants cd, Jenny Evans Shiny Stockings cd and most obvious difference came with Carla Bruni quelqu'un m'a dit cd- more emotional and human on d03)
I decided to keep both and evaluate them with my new system which is Soulution pre/power and Stella Utopia. I will also compare them with Soulution 745.
I agree to some extend with Pharma's findings, in the sense that the 03s strongest point was musicality. They had a warm character that made listening very pleasant. But I do not find the 02 less musical.
And also, that t is in the level of detail and resolution were the 02s are far superior.
But to me, they do so while keeping musicality intact. So in my case the level of enjoyment of music is higher by a good margin with the 02s since they do transmit more. You get things out of the performances, that you missed with the 03s. I do not mean little sounds that were not noticed before. You get some of those as well but that does not increase my enjoyment particularly. It is more in the details of how the performers play, the different degrees of intensity, speed, dynamics at micro levels that makes the difference.
Also different finding in bass and presence and body of instruments. Bass is in my case more present and better defined. Also presence and body of instruments is a large improvement with the 02s. The 03s were very good, but they were more flat, in the sense that different recordings and performances sounded more alike. The 02s unveils differences that I did not hear with the 03s.
I guess some of this are system specific. Also the fact that I use the P02 with the specific transfer link to the D02s can make a difference, but there I do not know for sure since I have never tried them with the P01.
Overall some common findings and some differences, that again I think have to do with system and maybe the transport.
Instruments have more body with d03. On the other hand D02 sounds clearer with extremely low background noise. When it comes to bass D03 has more impact, but D02 lacking slight thickness and warmth of D03 has faster bass and slightly better timing. As for the treble D02 is the clear winner with more extended yet silky smooth highs.
If you dont dissect and over analyze their performance, and evaluate it as a whole, then I would say d03 in most cases is more musical with more analog like sound. (probably due to the slight warmth in mid bass and better bass impact resulting with more body)
I can say that if you are going to use the usb and mostly well recorded cds and if it matches your systems sonic signature D02 is the winner.
When compared with older top of the line d01, it was more refined and smoother. Low level details were better on D02. On the other hand D01 had this powerful presence and texture of the instruments were sometimes better on the d01.
With sacd only comparison D03 was the best sounding with more analog like ease.
My comparison was made by using p01vu transport and G0rb atomic clock. Most listening was done with either filter off or short delay 1, no upsampling but in some rare cases with dsd upsampling. I used cds and sacds covering classical, rock, jazz and pop favorites. Cables were from Esoteric. Amps used were Pass(x600 and pre), McIntosh (400 & pre), and Krell. Speakers were Focal 907be.
I agree with Eelii on resolving power of D02. It is more detailed than d03 and any other dac I heard. It projects a very precise holographic 3d sound stage.
But I disagree on musicality. D03 simply sounds more cohesive and musical to my ears. It can even be considered very slightly euphonic. Vocals were more "human" with D03.
Note that I am using p01 vu as transport with atomic clock.
D02 is more revealing and sometimes has tendency to sound very slightly detached or a bit thin. It works better with a neutral or warmer system rather than a lean one. On the other hand some may find D03 a bit warm in another system.
Their sonic signature is close, yet they still sound different. It all comes down to personal taste in my opinion.
They are very resolving indeed. Lots of detail and textures. But I guess that also has a lot to do with the rest of the system.
For the 02s, they are the most detailed I have heard. But also very musical. Compared with the 03s, they have managed to increase resolution while keeping the nice musicality.
Specific to your question, yes, the strings sound fantastic, and you can actually hear all the intrinsic sounds to the diferent instruments in a way I have notmheard in other systems.
Now the drums I could not assure you if you can tell the diference in quality of paper or leather... I am not that familiar with drums, and maybe that is too much of a claim by whoever makes it, but not sure., since do not listen to that much music with drums. Although the other day did listen to a jazz trio and drums were fantastic.
Thx for reply Eellii. Another question - Do the 02s bring out the sound of the wood in string intruments or the leather or papery sound quality of the drums(I think this is the quality described as richness of tone colors in expert reviews)?
I tried Dsc some time ago. It was good but I don't think it was better than the 02s. at the time I liked esoteric better, although it was not the 02 I was comparing it to.
Although I can not say I am familiar with it and can not give a more detailed or conclusive answer.
Was curious if any one knows how p02 d02 compares to the unaffordable dcs scarlatti - as dcs is the player of choice for most companies at shows such as CES?
I will compare the new d02 dac with d01, and d03 with Esoteric p01vu transport and G0rb clock next week. I also have Accuphase dp900/dc901 to compare. Digital and AC cables are Esoteric. Interconnects are Van Den Hul 3T Mountain and Esoteric 6n-da6300.
I have the same dac and using it with p01 vu and g0rb. It has only 30 hrs. by now. It replaced d03 dac. Did the slightly thin presentation you were describing initially in the form went away or is it still a bit lean compared to p03/d03 ? I am using Esoteric 7n-pc7300 ac cable and it made it sound a bit smoother tighter and less lean with better vocals right away. But it still sounds a bit leaner than D03.
Thanks so much for all of this additional detailed information. It does sound like the P02 D02 is a significant step up from the P03/D03 stack.
I agree with you that there is basically no information about how the 02 stacks sounds - other than what you have written in this thread. In the US, I suspect part of that reason is that I think they just became available here in early January 2012 so very few end users have had them and if any reviewers have them, it will be a few more months before we will read what they hear. The earliest insight from a reviewer will most likely come from Jeff Fritz at Ultraaudio as he has selected these for his digital front end as part of his "TWBAS 2012" (The Worlds Best Audio System). He also selected the Aurender S10 music server so perhaps some comparison of the P02 transport sonics versus the Aurender music server both feeding the D02 dac. I believe the first "public" listening of that system is scheduled for end of March.
I have the 02s as I had the 03s most of the time. Two balanced from transport to DAC. It is the only way as you know to upsample. Same as with the 03s. For cables I use 2 esoteric mexcell, their top of the line. i think they are called 6300. Very expensive really but just the best with these units. Got a pair second hand here, like new for half the price. Still expensive but well worth.
I also tried the ilink with the esoteric iLink cable. Very very good. Almost as good, and only a step bellow the balanced esoteric cables, (at a fraction of cost), and actually better than with other brands balanced cables... I wrote a post a few months back on the ilink cable and the 03s saying how good it was.
Regardin listening mode, I've done CDs with both original -ORG- (so no upconversion at all) and a new mode 48-bit/176.4kHz with new ES link 3. To me this last seems slightly better but not by much and no conclussive. In any case, all that I said above stands for both ORG, so no upsampling, and ES Link 3. Difference between these two is small, really, and many times subjective. Differences and improvements I describe above are, in my opinion, anything but small...
There is also a new Dual AES 8Fs (24-bit/352.8kHz), but have listened very litle this way. Still it was very good and can not say if better than ES Link 3 as of now.
The DSD with SACDs was just as impressive as the rest and the gain from 03s was similar.
See, to me ears, the differences with playing modes are small in the context we are speaking. A matter of taste or even recordings. The difference between the 02s and 03s is anything but small. And anyone should be able to tell fast, personal tastes aside, in my opinion again.
Noise floor is clearly lower. That is why I pressume you hear all those new details in recordings that were not there before. Lots of low level detail.
Harmonic richness... that was probably one of the words I was looking for last night while writing the mini review. That is in good part what i meant when I said you can go so deep into the music. It is very very detailed in such a way: the richness of the music is quite mazing. WIth all the texture, color, definition... however you want to call it.
A piano? You have to hear a solo piano with the 02s. Upper is more natural. Easy to hear the difference. Not that the 03s were bad at all. This is just better in my opinion. Not too soft or sweet, not too bright or agressive. And surely defined. Just right. Again very lifelike. Also other excellent things improving piano performances. The decay of notes, the dynamics, the strength but definition at once of lower registers... Also piano concertos, or piano chamber is much better defines and with the right proportion within the presentation. I was freaking out the other day with Rachmaninov 3rd and 2nd... Likewise a piano duet. Is like if you could actually see the 4 hands. Follow the notes as I haven't been able before. Easy to follow which is doing what and how. While at the same time, all together sounds fantastic.
Hope this helps. Let me know any other thing you may want to ask. Happy to help. If you are really considering them, try to borrow a unit for your house for a few days to compare. But do it if you are really prepared to pay the price. Chances are you will keep it...
Well I better stop this or I may get an offer from Esoteric... I read it myself and think it is overdone. But than go back to listen to them, and it is precisely what I hear that I try to write.
There is only one thing that really has me surprised. You can not read anything in the web, magazines or other about them. No reviews from your usual sources, or the like. They have been out for a while. With the quality of these things I am really surprised. So much was written in the past about other units, and so good. And having owned myself many of the top esoteric digitals, I can say to me this is the best by far. Still out there all is mute mode.
Wondering if it has to do with what other poster mentioned earlier about esoteric having some kind of tough times in the US. Maybe they can't pay adds or similar or other compensations in kind... to reviewers, and so they are being kind of ignored...?
Thanks for posting. I was wondering if I may ask you some questions.
First, can you let me know how you have configured the P02 and D02 - meaning, how are they connected together and also when you are listening to redbook CD, what upsampling, if any are you using?
Do you notice any difference in the noise floor between the 03 stack and the 02 stack?
Can you comment on the harmonic richness of the 02 stack compared to the 03 stack. For example, how do the upper frequency notes of a piano sound on the 03 in comparison to how they sound on the 02 stack?
Sorry it is taking me so long. Lately I am quite loaded with work, which I guess is not a bad thing, and I also tend to do a lot of listening whenever I have some time. I will post some notes now. There is a lot more to say and I will try to do it as I listen more. However if there is a particular thing you may want to know just ask and I will answer best I can
I already gave some feedback on purely the looks of the units and the options of the menu. Not much differences in the first case. Just smaller things. Your casual observer would not probably notice the difference between 03s and 02s. Both are first class and quality all over. Slightly bigger screen on the DAC, the blue light on top of the transport and thats basically it. ON the menus options and set up, lots more of alternatives. Some nice ones. Also more options when it comes to listening modes. Most of my listening has been done with no conversion at all nor digital filter, or with the new ESL3. The later so far seems very good, but need to try others.
Now into pure listening, the first thing I noticed when I got the new units was how detailed they were. Right out of the box, almost without the need even to warm up And that is probably the single aspect that is most significant when you upgrade to the P02 D02 (from the P03 D03, or any other digital that I have heard for that matter). Not that you will not notice improvements in other areas of reproduction. You will. But the level of detail these things can deliver is just incredible. To define it as a next step or similar, is probably just falling short of it
But, as said, this is not the only improvement as I have discovered with time and as hours of listening have been accumulated. I guess in this case, all the audiophile old topics apply. I will not go through them, or not through all of them at least in this post. Just the most relevant for now.
When I say as detailed in sound to a level that really impressed me, I dont mean that you could actually hear new little things in old familiar recordings which you could. That is to expect to some degree. What I mean, and lacking better words, is how deep it goes into the main sounds of such recordings. Those that were there already. These units puts them right in front of you in I way I have never heard before. With all their texture, pretended expression and different intensity. Not only like the real thing. It is in this sense, like the real thing performed first row for you. If you want to focus per instance on a single performer out of a recording of several or many, you can actually get so much into what he is doing, how he is doing it, is almost as if you could see it. Is incredible how articulated, how much detail of his playing is offered. But also the intensity, even the feeling, the little variations or changes he does while performing, all unnoticed before...
Take per instance a string instrument in a chamber performance. It does sound so much like the real thing. A violin, viola, cello... In quartets or quintets, it is impressive how you can follow first string from second, from viola. The cello, or the double bass as the case may be, not only goes deeper than in other digitals Ive heard. It does so in a crystal clear way. Articulated, defined but also with lots of body and punch when needed. Like the real thing, again . Not only that. You can almost see the stage in all its dimension and there, hear actually different intensity and tonality of the performers all the time, all at once. Really is hard to explain for me. In my natural tongue would be. Let alone English.
With big symphonic orchestras it is no less impressive to hear. In space and, once more in texture, tonality. As a whole it sounds fantastic. Right dimension, space, dynamics It is just so coherent as a whole as well. And indeed very exciting.
I had never experienced before, aside than in real live, the difference between different performers or group of performers in such an extension. If you focus your attention on any of them individually playing, you can actually hear, almost see, what the particular performer is doing. Again inner detail is the word. As good as the 03s were in this regard, they are not even close to such fine level of detail and incredible amount of information transmitted. And those are big words, but it is what I hear and no matter how I say it, you have to hear it to know what Im trying to describe.
The units are not forgiving. If the recording is bad, they will let you know right away. But even in those cases I do find a pleasure listening to good performances in not so good recordings. See, they are also very musical.
Which is probably the greatest achievement. Detail is the biggest improvement and most impressive. Combining it, with a musical, exciting, powerful lifelike presentation, is the hardest to achieve. ONe without all the detail would end up being boring or even tiring. But not the case... and so the mix what finally makes them different to any other ting i've heard before.
Soundstage is just as it should. Also an improvement. Well defined, and as deep and wide as the performance requires. You do not get a sting quartet the size of the Albert Hall. You get it the size it is. Likewise, listening to a symphony gives you the widest and deepest soundstage I have yet to hear from any other digital system.
Another special mention goes to bass, mid and low. It is another big gain. It goes deeper all right, but above all in a much (yes I know the 03s are great) more articulated and defined way.
I could go on and on. But for now I will have to stop. All I have said is quite something when I say it comparing to, nothing less, than the 03s, which for me were and still are one of the finest digital I have ever heard out there.
Frankly speaking I was not expecting this at all. I was expecting a gain, yes, but not of this kind. I do firmly think they are probably the best out there right now, in absolute terms. They are for sure, and not by a small margin, the best to anything I have listened before, including top Esoteric, but also others like top of the range dCS, Linn, ARC and others.
I will write more in a few days as I do more listening, but in the meantime, feel free to ask anything you may want to know.
Disclaimer:
Some of you know already, but for those who don't I have no interest, direct or indirect, economic or otherwise, relationship or similar, to the audio industry. Just an aficionado that loves music and the hobby. Also, I would urge you, if you consider buying such an expensive set, to listen and try at home in your system, and than decide by yourself. What I've written is a candid, honest, non interested feedback of what I hear. But as always it could to some, small or large extend, be conditional to specific system synergies, or personal perception/preferences.
HOpe this helps and that it proves useful. Not many (none actually that I've seen) info out there of this units (why?).
Yes I will soon post feedback and side by side with 03s. Will try to do it over the weekend. Have done by now extensive listening and I am ready to post on it.
All I will say right now, the 02s... Have been a great surprise for the good. As good as the 03s are and were for me, and I loved them, the 02s are just something else... I bet these thing are better than the 01s, and likely not by a small margin....
Any update on how your Esoteric P02/D02 sounds in comparison to your Esoteric P03/D03? I am curious as I also have the Esoteric P03/D03 combo. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
Ok, i am now able to porpertly compare both units (long history). Although ky amps are not in still and will take still 2 wekks... I managed to get my hand on another pair of Omegas... A review on the 02s will come soon, with info on how they sound plus side by side with the 03s.
I hate to say I'm still waiting for my Omegas to get home... They are having a hard time with them since the Omicrom are not in production anymore so they will just send a new pair and upgrade to the big ones for a very very reasonable difference!
Good for that, but in the meantime, just waiting... I expect them now this next week or week after the latest and hopefully will be able to start listening and comparing.
As of now they 02s have some 150 hours on them or so. But most of the time I just leave them on playing and do not do any listening.
I have now the ARC reference 210T as mono amps plugged. Today I did some listening. It's hard to compare, since these amps are very different in nature to what I'm used to and played the 03s, but some things I can say already.
The 02s are very very detailed. Far more than the 03s. Lots of texture, inner detail, ambient... you name it. It is very impressive. Even more so, considering the Omegas are more detailed than the ARC 210. With the Omegas these things can be quite incredible is this regard.
SOundstage and positioning also very very good. It is huge all around, deep, wide, 3D... you name it. Also superior to the 03s. However I do want to compare here with the Omegas on. N0t conclusive as of now.
Bass is probably the hardest to asses. The bass of the 210 is totally different to that of a solid state. So although is there, and in good amounts, not too defined or particularly tight, nor articulated. For a comparation of the 02s with the 03s, we will need to wait for the Omegas to be ready. If I connect the CT600, the bass gets much better (although the rest of the things do exactly the opposite), so clearly is an amp related thing. I recall the 2 or 3 days I cold play de 02s with the Omegas, the bass I heard was excellent in all senses, so looking forward to be able to listen and compare once the Omegas are in.
The things are very musical now, but again the 210T has a lot to say there. So can not compare neither in this area. Sound has that tubby sweet sound print so I need to listen with a good solid state amp to make a good assessment here. The 03s were fantastic in this regard. We will see with 200 hours or so how the 02s compare.
Overall, although I fell the Omegas are quite superior to the 201Ts, I can say I could live happy with this combination - 02s + 210T + Ref 40 (bass would probably be the only thing that I would miss big time). But have never heard a system with the 210Ts as amps sounding as detailed and precise while being musical and rich (this is more to expect).
I also wanted to report on the USB input and how sound compared using it as source vs the P02, since for me I think is one of the most important upgrades the 02s bring to the table, in terms of flexibility and in particular regarding hi res files. Unfortunately, I will not be able to do that for a while since I am having a very bad experience there, but none Esoteric related...
Wanted to set up the system while waiting for the Omegas so ordered, what was supposed to be, a "mod" Mac Mini with an external power supply box, from a company called "Mach2 Music"... It has been the worst decision I have done in my life regarding audio purchases. A disaster.
Will write in detail in a separated post about this and this company... (if you can call them to be such a thing...), but to make it short here, these guys have basically taken 5000 USD!!! away from me and delivered nothing of what they had promised. I can say I have the more expensive "stock" Mac Mini in the world, and a bunch of other stuff they sell that does not work, since it is not delivered as they promised and so very much useless.
This guys are a bad joke. What is worse, I have been back and forth with them for over a month now to try to get my money back or all replaced and served as they did promised, but they will not stand up behind at all. They are asking for more money and for me to take over additional expenses to solve (or so they say) all the issues. Needles to say, I will not put a another cent on the table for them to take it and run... More to come on this, but for now, if someone is considering buying from these guys, think it twice... and beware. You can send me a PM if you are considering and want more details. They are a disaster and seems it is going to cost me a lot of money... Maybe they will reconsider and make it up for all their mistakes, but after more than a month back and forth with them, my faith is almost (if not completely) gone.
It is still for sale in Europe. Maybe they will take it out as well in the near future? For now they say it is still current.
I think it may be a very good opportunity for people who doesn't want to expend that much, to get a great great digital gear. Assume there will be great offers on left stock and quite a few second hand units going for sale...
Regarding my 02s, still can't give any feedback. Waiting for my amps to get repaired or replaced. It is going to take still a couple of weeks, at least... Not too happy at all...
The CT 600 they lent me are not that good at all (at least in comparation). They have gotten great reviews... not sure I can agree with them. So I don not do much listening, if any. Just leave it on to put some hours on them.
I have received confirmation today from Esoteric USA that the P03/D03 combo has been withdrawn from the US market. It has been entirely replaced by the new P02/D02 combo. G.
this is a disaster... a mess. As I told you the Omegas went under. I have a pair of CAM 600. They are not the best to my taste. Too hard and non musical... The best listening I've done to the 02s actually were the first 2 or 3 days I had it with the Omegas, even though the things had very few hours on them...
After that, with the loaners CAM 600 I just can't listen to the system for too long. And making any comparation is just impossible, as the 600s just took over all the sound print. So, I'm very sorry to say, I can not give any feedback. This is very bad... Have the combo there, but really can't listen to it. WHat have they done with the CAM 600? I recall the CAM 400 having a much more neutral sound. Much better amp, I recall.
I had over the weekend a pair of ARC 210T. Much better sound. Nicer, musical, lots of body, dynamics, although not the most detailed amp, nor best defined bass (although there was plenty of it). Overall I did like the sound with their pluses and minuses. Still impossible to say how the 02s are vs the 03s, since again different amp characters make comparations just impossible.
Now I'm again back with the 600s and doing very little listening. Just letting the thing play while I do something else.
What a drag... let's see when I get back my Omegas, or something that allows me to compare.
Well, been with them for 3 days now. However one of my Classe Omega amp has, what seems to be, an issue with a capacitor and have not been able to listen that much... Dealer is going to pick them up Monday for a revision and repair and will bring a pair of CAM 600 as a loaner while they are on service. Not the same but very nice from him.
Can only listen to the system for now after I let it off and unpluged for many hours, so normally overnight. And after I turn it off, have to wait again for many hours.
Anyway, what I can tell so far is the following.
From a construction perspective, it follows Esoteric standards. THey are like tanks. So much so, that actually they are basically the same as the 03s. You have to look very carefully to tell the difference. Same size, about same weight (maybe a bit more but not even sure), same shape.. same.
The DAC has a slightly bigger screen, but not much bigger. And transport has a blue light on top to show when it is on and not playing. Layout of buttons a bit different. And that's it. Rest are like the 03s.
On the back, things are different. Now the power inlets are in the middle of the devices (not to the right like they are in the 03s). I don't like this as much, since power cord has to go in between interconnects, which is not the best.
I think the interior is totally different. Seems like they built it as a double decker or something. It does not have the power supply to one side.
Of course there is also the USB input, but haven't tried it yet.
Now to the options it has, the menus are totally different. Many more options, many new ones. Still getting familiar with it. It is a complete new menu with many more alternatives. Both in transport and DAC. Not only regarding conversion and filter, which has more alternatives, but also clocking, and all other kind of things. Actually a bit complicated but it will only be a matter of time.
Interesting it has, the P03, a new option in the menu of how do you want the disc to be loaded: slow or fast. Slow takes a lot of time. It says in the manual, it is to make sure the disc gets in perfect position for a better reading or something. Well surely it takes it's time. WOnder if it does some kind of buffering of data with this option.
Transport is dead quiet (not like in the P03). Good thing there.
Regarding how they sound, which is probably what interest people the most, not much I can say still. Listened to them for 2 days and then satarted having the problems with one of the amps and have only been able to listen in short periods of time since then.
So far, with maybe 10 hours on them or less, it is very very detailed. Lots of inner detail as well. Very high definition. Big soundstage. Very big actually, for the little time it has on. Strong bass; But sounds a bit to the thin side of things, like if lacked a bit of weight, and a bit hard on the highs as well. Need to get more musical, if you will. I'm sure it will get much better with time. If it maintains the level of detail, and definition, and manages to get the musical and richness of sound the 03s had, it will be a great player.
Another member asked me if I thought it was a break trough for Esoteric. Hard to say right now, but my first impression is that no (hopefully this will change and it well could, since this thing is too new to tell). So far, I would say it seems it will be one notch (or two) above the 03s, but not the kind of improvement that transforms your system, if you know what I mean.
Again this could change, and hopefully it will. Some things are already better than with the 03s. But others need improvement. We will see how better it gets in both, the already better and the ones that are not.
This I can tell so far....
Don't hesitate to ask me any questions you may have. Will try to answer best I can with limited experience and listening time still.
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