Eli, according to what I understood at in the Esoteric suite at RMAF, the P-02/D02 combo may be replacing P-03/D-03.... but I am not 100% sure. The devices feature very advanced technologies, amongst which is 35 bit DAC. Cost in the US may be approximately $50K.... Aledgedly they have been released, but I have not heard/seen them yet, and they are not yet listed on the US Esoteric site.
If you can, please post the link to the English version of the Esoteric Japan page where P-02/D-02 are featured.
Best, G. |
Thank you so much Alex and Eli, truly fascinating.... I hope someone will be able to listen to these creatures soon in some meaningful environment, and will report some initial findings. G. |
Eli, I suspect we will start seeing more English language information on P02/D02 around CES 2012 in January.... But next time I talk to Esoteric USA I will ask them when English language info may be posted to the US site. |
Eli, at RMAF in Denver Esoteric was live.... and doing very well, I should say. Tim Crable is the new Esoteric US sales and marketing manager. Tim was previously manager of technical services, and is incredibly qualified to head Esoteric sales and marketing.... He has deep technical and user knowledge of the product line, is extremely respected by consumers and dealers... and has a true flair for getting visitors excited about Esoteric at shows.
It is not particularly relevant whether Esoteric continues to operate as an independently run division of TEAC, or only as a brand within the TEAC umbrella. From the wealth of TEAC/Esoteric products being featured at RMAF, and the general public excitement at the show, I could see no evidence of the Esoteric brand and products going away any time soon. G. |
Thank you Topofthelineaudio , your friend at Luxman is of course completely unbiased about the future of his competitors.... And thank you for the subtly condescending remarks about Mr. Crable's credentials..... So exquisitely professional of you. |
I honestly could not care if Mr. Crable were a History major instead... I have known Tim personally since the early part of the last decade, and applaude that Esoteric corporate has made the enlightened business decision to entrust a consummate professional with real world experience of Tim's caliber with driving and growing customer-facing aspects of the Teac Esoteric operation in north America.
On a related topic, it is of course quite possible that K-01 and P-02/D-02 may well be swansongs, or at lease may constitute one of the last flagship products from Esoteric to sport spinning motors... Whether we like it or not, and I for one abhor the very idea, the era of the silvery disk may be nearing a gloriously nostalgic sunset. I fully expect that the number of new disk-spinning products by major manufacturers emerging over the near to medium horizon is bound to be dwindling to asymptotic quietude. Until such time however, my quest for the silvery-disk-playing nirvana continues unabated.
Hence the topical question beckons unchanged... How does the P02/D02 combo sound? How does it stack against its competitors? Frantic audiophilic minds want to know!
G. |
Thank you Eli, I am looking forward to reading your comparative observations. Guido |
Eli, very selfishly, I hope you have the opportunity of comparing directly the old with the new *grins!* G. |
Eli, that's fabulous.... Can't wait to read about your impressions! Saluti, G. |
Eli, how are things proceeding with the P02/D02 combo? G. |
Thank you Eli for the update.... Keep us posted as things evolve! Guido |
Hi Eli, anything new on the P02/D02 break-in front? G. |
I have received confirmation today from Esoteric USA that the P03/D03 combo has been withdrawn from the US market. It has been entirely replaced by the new P02/D02 combo. G. |
Hi Colekat,
If you were interested in exploring no-compromise high power amps outside the usual beaten path of class A and A/B, have a look at the Rowland M925 four chassis monoblock flagship. I have owned a pair of this Ncore NC1200 based amp since June, and am in awe of the caliber of music reproduction and resolution that it delivers.
My front end consists of an Esoteric X-01 serving as a transport, with a Rowland Aeris DAC connected via 75 Ohm coax, while Rowland Criterion is my linestage.
I have kept an M925 break-in diary of sorts at:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1369518273&openfrom&1&4#1
Technical information on the amp can be found at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=212
Saluti, G. |
Hi ColeKat, Rowland M925 lists for $58K. Its M825 stereo sibling costs $32K.
M925 yields 430W/8O and 850W/4O with a 2500W power supply per side.
M825 shares one 2500W power supply for the two channels. Power rating is 400W/8O and 750W/4O per channel.
Where are you located?
Saluti, Guido |
Hi Colekat, my apologies, but... What does "multiplier" mean in this context?
... But we are straying visibly from the main topic of this thread. I have sent you a PM.
Saluti, Guido |
Hi Pharma, I agree with your finding on X-01 as transport... Thus, I have experimented by applying various combinations of Nordost Sort Kones under the device... Found that supporting X-01 with a Titanium Kone just behind each footer, salted by one Bronze Kone somewhere undeer the middle of the chassis, is transformative... Staging, top to bottom extension is increased, harmonic integrity is enhance, and so is linearity, all without causing any unmusical cross-modulation in the mid treble.
I can only conjecture that the enhancements may similarly affect newer / more advanced devices like the P-02, K-01, K-03... And mayhap the upcoming P1.
As an aside, I am experiencing further enhancements by applying the same configuration under the Rowland Aeris DAC.
|
Hi Csmsart, as X-01 appears to be quite sensitive to footers configuration when used as a transport into Aeris, I suspect that the use of more advanced / newer Esoteric transports like K-01 or P-02 might yield even more desirable results.
I agree about Aeris's fantastic qualities and break-in requirements... I have now about 250 hours on it. While very good initially, with relatively rapid evolution for the first 30 hours, further evolution was slow until about 220 hours. Until that time there were faint traces of treble overpressure.
Since then, frequency response has normalized into great musicality. All audible parameters appear to be blooming / maturing rapidly without signs of evolution slowing down... Aeris is becoming a real jaw-dropper.
For the last several days I have been feeding it a steady diet of large Bach organ works 24 hours a day... Seems to be a highly effective break-in therapy.
Do I prefer Aeris over D-02? Sorry... I have not experienced D-02 at all, so my answer is... I do not know the answer.
Guido |
Hi Pharma, have you tried X-01 as transport? Could you comment on audible differnces between X-01 as transport and P-03?
Guido |
Thank you Pharma, fascinating and useful info indeed!
I noticed that you have ranked K-01 only as DAC.... Can you rate its transport performance against X-01 and P-03?
How would you rate overall K-01 single box performance against P-03/D-03?
Thanks, Guido |
Thank you Pharma.... Excellent food for thought.... And even better food for fostering a fresh flare-up of my ever-simmering audiophrenic angsts. G. |
Hi Colekat, the difference between the X-01 DAC / analog output stage and X-01 as transport +Rowland Aeris DAC is rather staggering... For the first 150 hours of operation, Aeris makes a nice but subtle difference.... Past 220 hours mark, Aeris takes off, and makes my old X-01 in single-box mode sound... Broken.
Furthermore, because I use only a digital source, I may no longer need my preamplifier.... Musicality and authority remain exceptional, without any digital stridency, even directly into my amps.... And I perceive no loss of resolution as I lower volume on Aeris.
I venture to guess that by replacing X-01 with an advanced dedicated Esoteric transport, I will obtain even more desirable results.
Guido |
Hi Tom, This is good to know... does this mean that Scott is Esoteric Sales/Marketing/Operations manager for Esoteric at Integra? |
Hi Pharma, what you heard about SMPS is... All correct. In olden days, SMPS had been born as inexpensive, efficient, and compact replacements for conventional supplies... Without too much concern about performance. Rapid evolution has set in... Today, things are very different... SMPS can be very complex, sophisticated, and heavy.... And convey a sound that can be exquisitely refined, and is often subtly unique to the particular taste of the designer. I am confident that if Solution is now offering an SMPS option to their amps, they do it only because they have obtained an audible enhancement over what they had obtained with their more traditional supplies.
the regulated SMPS in the current generation of Rowland amps, which are often fed by a PFC rectifier, are as sweet as the old toroidal/linear supplies that Rowland used in the 1980 and 1990s on M1 through M9. However, the new SMPS are a lot nimbler and quieter than the old supplies, hence they deliver greater musical resolution, broader and more linear frequency extension, quieter background, and better defined macro/micro transients.
Rowland uses SMPS in the complete product lineup only because, within each price category, he prefers their sound over traditional supplies.
M625 is a fabulous stereo amp within its approx $14K price category. Never the less, the amp and its SMPS is merely the 4th down in the current Rowland amplifier lineup... From the top:
1. M925 4-chassis monos, $58K.
2. M825 2-chassis stereo (sibling of M925; convertable to mono ops with switch in back) $32K
3. M725 monos $29K.
4. M625 stereo. $14K.
I have owned M7 Mk.4, M312, M625, M725, and now have M925. The performance progression from the first to the last is simply staggering. And a good part of the difference is due to the progressive sophistication of their power input sections.... PFC and rectification, DC SMPS, 4-pole capacitor buffering, and regulation. Within the current Rowland production, M925 and M825 would be congruent with the caliber of your system.
If you are interested in more detail, the M925 section of the Rowland Knowledge Base has several technical entries that deal with the power input section of the amp:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=212
Guido |
Hi Pharma... I'll drink to that!
Guido |
And the remarkable thing is that the Shunyata Alpha Digital PC is conservatevely priced at $999. |
Hi Operalover, how many hours of break-in did D-02 have... and what upsampling / filtering settings had been applied on the two units? G. |
Hi Operalover, at 500 hours D-02 was unlikely to be broken in.... In addition to the basic 500 hours breakin, D-02 likely requires another 500 hours on each targeted filter+upsampling value. Before the machine has settled completely, D-02 is likely to exhibit some residual aggression. On the other hand, an exhuberant stage/imaging may exists by design.
A D-01 unit would have had time to settle down for quite a spell... D-02 at 500 hours is a mere youngling DAC, with all the emotional problems of a tempestuous adolescence.
On the other hand, I freely admit that I am extrapolating from my experience with single box X-01 and K-01, which is a somewhat risky logical proposition... Pharma should comment, having had significant direct experience with most Esoteric front ends.
G. |
Hi Zephyr, may I suggest to give S_dly2 a spin. On K-01 at least, I found it to be more extended than S_dly1, with greater staging/imaging, and equally musical.
G. |
Hi Zephyr, my experience on K-01 first edition was that each filter variant required its own break in time of about 500 hours. For my own preferences, S_dly2 met the right balance of resolution and musicality.... S_dly1 was more tube-like, while DSD upsampling resulted in a highly resolving and snappy, but also "nervous", rendering that resulted in an edge-of-seat experience that I was not too fond of. FIR filters seemed to yield a bit of a two-dimensional stage with a touch of synthetic in their sound signature. |
Hi Zephyr, I have no experience on the combo units at all... My findings are based on K01 only.... By logic only I imagine that if you set filters on D-02, no filters should be set on P-02... But it might be best for you to consult Integra/Esoteric tech support on this.
On K-01 I much prefered the resolution, spatiality and the overall musicality of 4X upsampling over 2X... And I preferred 2X over no upsampling at all. |
Hi Tom, what is Scott Sefton's function/position at Integra? |
Hy Zephyr, very interesting that your findings on filter selection for D02 are consistent with my preference on K-01... May I ask how S_DLY2 and S_DLY1 differ on D-02?
Saluti, G. |
Excellent info Tom... Thank you so much! G. |
Interesting Esoteric Grandioso review.
Unfortunately, I missed any indication of break-in process and related behavior... Hence we cannot tell if the devices were mature or instead they would have benefited from more "grinding of gravel" to
achieve peak performance.
I would have liked to read a more detailed discussion of audible differences among filters and upsampling rates. I venture to guess -- purely extrapolating from my experience with the K-01 single box -- that S-Dly2 and 8X upsampling might have been my prefered setting. |
Hi Jon, trust me... I am in fact very much salivating about Grandioso. Yet, in a major case of sour grapes, not there being a single chance in H**l of me ever getting approval from SWMBO to acquire one, I found myself compelled to "Pick bones in to-fo"... If not in the Grandioso, at least in the review *grins!*
Still friends?
G. |
Eelii08, what is the URL to the "other guy" that you mentioned?
G. |
Might analog output voltage be a user selectable seting? Have you tried to poke around the settings menu? G. |
