New Esoteric P02 D02

Hi G, its been a while. Good to hear from you.

Yes all the info is out.

This is the link to the pdf with main characteristic. Is from a Spanish online store, but doc is in English.

http://www.supersonido.es/productos/documentos/Documento1510.pdf

And here the link to the japan web in English. This is the one of the D02, but if you go to products can find the P 02 as well. Overall much more info than in the US web

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/d02/indexe.html

Prices are out in Europe (atleast in Spain). They still sell the 03s and just position the new ones a step above. The retail price here for the 2 units increases in 10.000 euros (so like 14.000 USD). The 03s retail for 15.900 euro per unit and the 02s for 20.900 per unit. I guess the rise will be similar in the US.

Many new features re conversion. Whole new set of DACs. Think are the same as the new Ks, but 8 per channel, and lot of care placed to power Suply units, The D02 is like the 01s in the sense it has a dual mono configuration, altough in one single box. Has a USB input. New clocking more accurate and isolated...

Looks very good...

HI Alex, considering how familiar you are with Esoteric digital gear, what's your initial view on these 2. Do you think they represent a significant step up from the 03s?

Thanks
Eli

Thanks Alex,

Do you think upgrading just the DAC unit and keeping the transport, D02/P03, makes more sense than upgrading both components, given the price?

It does. Thanks Alex. I guess there will be more info out there soon.

Been checking. These have been out for a while now and are for sale (at least in Europe). Assume in the US as well. But no info on them anywhere I can find on the web. No reviews or feedback form anyone or info beyon Japan Esoteric web page.

Anyone know why this may be? Or where to get more info in English (lots of things but only and Japanese and I'm not exactly fluent...

thanks
Eli

Thanks. But can you buy them there already? While you ask, could you find out if the 03s are still current. Seems so, and that they just positioned the 02 s above, but not sure.

I japan web page they have both showing.

Thanks
Eli

Really? But they are very active in releasing new products, the company is very active. More than ever I would say.

Do you mean that they closed the US branch of Esoteric? If so what are they planning, going partnership with a local importer?

In Europe they never had an Esoteric Company per se. They work through official importers by country, or set of countries. Their units get serviced if needed directly in Japan. This way of working here is very good. Service is great. Only downside are the long waitings from and to Japan, although never needed service in my case in all the Esoteric i owned in the past. Once I ask for a new P03 to compare the spinning noise of the transport and they sent me a new unit. Had both at home to keep the lowest noise one. The service still the same up to date in Europe.

I guess they are cost coting in distribution or something... Giving up the importer margin but fixing the costs of servicing the market there, no? In any case, sorry to hear.

Topo, was wondering,

Are you in the audio business or audio electronic business, or have any economic related interesr?

Thanks
Eli

Thanks Topo for reply. Just wondering.

I am not surprised Teac or Esoteric are showing a lost at the financials currently. Like any other mainly export driven company, the slowdown in Europe and US, still the larger markets in absolute terms, are killing them. Also being Japan based, the Yen is also playing against them big time. Add both things and that could explain. Very widespread effect afecting export driven companies in Asia. Do not have the figure but would guess 60% or more of their sales comes from exports to US and Europe. That hurts any income est. In cureent enviroment. Look at Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer and the likes. i think very similar case.

I am not US based and so do not know Tim or how they work there. Just hope service remains the same for yuo guys.

Well G, in 2 or 3 weeks I will be able to tell you first hand.... And how it compares to the 03s, and others.

Will do. My 03s are posted for sale at the forum. Hopefully someone will take them before new arrives but if not, will be able to compare directly and post side by side before my dealer takes them.

I would much rather trust my memory for comparation with the 03s...

We will see. I expect some improvement, but not major. The 03s sound very good i dont see how the new can be that much better. For me the quality USB input to a world clase DAC did it. Been holding the adition of some files playback system to this release. All the systems I tried in the past were very expensive, to put on top of the Esoteric cost and did not got the same quality as with the 03s.

So if the 02s are just somewhat better, with the USB input into the D02 to get very high quality file playing will be worth it. Not much more expensive than keeping the 03s and buying a Linn klimax or similar and will sound better.

But regarding the 02s vs 03s for just CD or SACD playing, I do expect a gain but nothing like the one I had from gong to the top of their one box system into the separares.

We will see....

G, I got a call from dealer today... Units are here. Almost 2 weeks in advance of expected delivery. Good! So tomorrow I will hopefully have them home installed.

Will share first impressions soon. More on how they look, features and similar than sound, as it will take a while I guess till i sounds decent...

Best
Eli

Hi G,

Well, been with them for 3 days now. However one of my Classe Omega amp has, what seems to be, an issue with a capacitor and have not been able to listen that much... Dealer is going to pick them up Monday for a revision and repair and will bring a pair of CAM 600 as a loaner while they are on service. Not the same but very nice from him.

Can only listen to the system for now after I let it off and unpluged for many hours, so normally overnight. And after I turn it off, have to wait again for many hours.

Anyway, what I can tell so far is the following.

From a construction perspective, it follows Esoteric standards. THey are like tanks. So much so, that actually they are basically the same as the 03s. You have to look very carefully to tell the difference. Same size, about same weight (maybe a bit more but not even sure), same shape.. same.

The DAC has a slightly bigger screen, but not much bigger. And transport has a blue light on top to show when it is on and not playing. Layout of buttons a bit different. And that's it. Rest are like the 03s.

On the back, things are different. Now the power inlets are in the middle of the devices (not to the right like they are in the 03s). I don't like this as much, since power cord has to go in between interconnects, which is not the best.

I think the interior is totally different. Seems like they built it as a double decker or something. It does not have the power supply to one side.

Of course there is also the USB input, but haven't tried it yet.

Now to the options it has, the menus are totally different. Many more options, many new ones. Still getting familiar with it. It is a complete new menu with many more alternatives. Both in transport and DAC. Not only regarding conversion and filter, which has more alternatives, but also clocking, and all other kind of things. Actually a bit complicated but it will only be a matter of time.

Interesting it has, the P03, a new option in the menu of how do you want the disc to be loaded: slow or fast. Slow takes a lot of time. It says in the manual, it is to make sure the disc gets in perfect position for a better reading or something. Well surely it takes it's time. WOnder if it does some kind of buffering of data with this option.

Transport is dead quiet (not like in the P03). Good thing there.

Regarding how they sound, which is probably what interest people the most, not much I can say still. Listened to them for 2 days and then satarted having the problems with one of the amps and have only been able to listen in short periods of time since then.

So far, with maybe 10 hours on them or less, it is very very detailed. Lots of inner detail as well. Very high definition. Big soundstage. Very big actually, for the little time it has on. Strong bass; But sounds a bit to the thin side of things, like if lacked a bit of weight, and a bit hard on the highs as well. Need to get more musical, if you will. I'm sure it will get much better with time. If it maintains the level of detail, and definition, and manages to get the musical and richness of sound the 03s had, it will be a great player.

Another member asked me if I thought it was a break trough for Esoteric. Hard to say right now, but my first impression is that no (hopefully this will change and it well could, since this thing is too new to tell). So far, I would say it seems it will be one notch (or two) above the 03s, but not the kind of improvement that transforms your system, if you know what I mean.

Again this could change, and hopefully it will. Some things are already better than with the 03s. But others need improvement. We will see how better it gets in both, the already better and the ones that are not.

This I can tell so far....

Don't hesitate to ask me any questions you may have. Will try to answer best I can with limited experience and listening time still.

Best
Eli

Hi G,

this is a disaster... a mess. As I told you the Omegas went under. I have a pair of CAM 600. They are not the best to my taste. Too hard and non musical... The best listening I've done to the 02s actually were the first 2 or 3 days I had it with the Omegas, even though the things had very few hours on them...

After that, with the loaners CAM 600 I just can't listen to the system for too long. And making any comparation is just impossible, as the 600s just took over all the sound print. So, I'm very sorry to say, I can not give any feedback. This is very bad... Have the combo there, but really can't listen to it. WHat have they done with the CAM 600? I recall the CAM 400 having a much more neutral sound. Much better amp, I recall.

I had over the weekend a pair of ARC 210T. Much better sound. Nicer, musical, lots of body, dynamics, although not the most detailed amp, nor best defined bass (although there was plenty of it). Overall I did like the sound with their pluses and minuses. Still impossible to say how the 02s are vs the 03s, since again different amp characters make comparations just impossible.

Now I'm again back with the 600s and doing very little listening. Just letting the thing play while I do something else.

What a drag... let's see when I get back my Omegas, or something that allows me to compare.

It is still for sale in Europe. Maybe they will take it out as well in the near future? For now they say it is still current.

I think it may be a very good opportunity for people who doesn't want to expend that much, to get a great great digital gear. Assume there will be great offers on left stock and quite a few second hand units going for sale...

Regarding my 02s, still can't give any feedback. Waiting for my amps to get repaired or replaced. It is going to take still a couple of weeks, at least... Not too happy at all...

The CT 600 they lent me are not that good at all (at least in comparation). They have gotten great reviews... not sure I can agree with them. So I don not do much listening, if any. Just leave it on to put some hours on them.

Oh well...

Hi G,

I hate to say I'm still waiting for my Omegas to get home... They are having a hard time with them since the Omicrom are not in production anymore so they will just send a new pair and upgrade to the big ones for a very very reasonable difference!

Good for that, but in the meantime, just waiting... I expect them now this next week or week after the latest and hopefully will be able to start listening and comparing.

As of now they 02s have some 150 hours on them or so. But most of the time I just leave them on playing and do not do any listening.

I have now the ARC reference 210T as mono amps plugged. Today I did some listening. It's hard to compare, since these amps are very different in nature to what I'm used to and played the 03s, but some things I can say already.

The 02s are very very detailed. Far more than the 03s. Lots of texture, inner detail, ambient... you name it. It is very impressive. Even more so, considering the Omegas are more detailed than the ARC 210. With the Omegas these things can be quite incredible is this regard.

SOundstage and positioning also very very good. It is huge all around, deep, wide, 3D... you name it. Also superior to the 03s. However I do want to compare here with the Omegas on. N0t conclusive as of now.

Bass is probably the hardest to asses. The bass of the 210 is totally different to that of a solid state. So although is there, and in good amounts, not too defined or particularly tight, nor articulated. For a comparation of the 02s with the 03s, we will need to wait for the Omegas to be ready. If I connect the CT600, the bass gets much better (although the rest of the things do exactly the opposite), so clearly is an amp related thing. I recall the 2 or 3 days I cold play de 02s with the Omegas, the bass I heard was excellent in all senses, so looking forward to be able to listen and compare once the Omegas are in.

The things are very musical now, but again the 210T has a lot to say there. So can not compare neither in this area. Sound has that tubby sweet sound print so I need to listen with a good solid state amp to make a good assessment here. The 03s were fantastic in this regard. We will see with 200 hours or so how the 02s compare.

Overall, although I fell the Omegas are quite superior to the 201Ts, I can say I could live happy with this combination - 02s + 210T + Ref 40 (bass would probably be the only thing that I would miss big time). But have never heard a system with the 210Ts as amps sounding as detailed and precise while being musical and rich (this is more to expect).

I also wanted to report on the USB input and how sound compared using it as source vs the P02, since for me I think is one of the most important upgrades the 02s bring to the table, in terms of flexibility and in particular regarding hi res files. Unfortunately, I will not be able to do that for a while since I am having a very bad experience there, but none Esoteric related...

Wanted to set up the system while waiting for the Omegas so ordered, what was supposed to be, a "mod" Mac Mini with an external power supply box, from a company called "Mach2 Music"... It has been the worst decision I have done in my life regarding audio purchases. A disaster.

Will write in detail in a separated post about this and this company... (if you can call them to be such a thing...), but to make it short here, these guys have basically taken 5000 USD!!! away from me and delivered nothing of what they had promised. I can say I have the more expensive "stock" Mac Mini in the world, and a bunch of other stuff they sell that does not work, since it is not delivered as they promised and so very much useless.

This guys are a bad joke. What is worse, I have been back and forth with them for over a month now to try to get my money back or all replaced and served as they did promised, but they will not stand up behind at all. They are asking for more money and for me to take over additional expenses to solve (or so they say) all the issues. Needles to say, I will not put a another cent on the table for them to take it and run... More to come on this, but for now, if someone is considering buying from these guys, think it twice... and beware. You can send me a PM if you are considering and want more details. They are a disaster and seems it is going to cost me a lot of money... Maybe they will reconsider and make it up for all their mistakes, but after more than a month back and forth with them, my faith is almost (if not completely) gone.

Best
Eli

Ok, i am now able to porpertly compare both units (long history). Although ky amps are not in still and will take still 2 wekks... I managed to get my hand on another pair of Omegas... A review on the 02s will come soon, with info on how they sound plus side by side with the 03s.

Best
Eli

Hi BB, long time.

Yes I will soon post feedback and side by side with 03s. Will try to do it over the weekend. Have done by now extensive listening and I am ready to post on it.

All I will say right now, the 02s... Have been a great surprise for the good. As good as the 03s are and were for me, and I loved them, the 02s are just something else... I bet these thing are better than the 01s, and likely not by a small margin....

More to come

Sorry it is taking me so long. Lately I am quite loaded with work, which I guess is not a bad thing, and I also tend to do a lot of listening whenever I have some time. I will post some notes now. There is a lot more to say and I will try to do it as I listen more. However if there is a particular thing you may want to know just ask and I will answer best I can…

I already gave some feedback on purely the looks of the units and the options of the menu. Not much differences in the first case. Just smaller things. Your casual observer would not probably notice the difference between 03s and 02s. Both are first class and quality all over. Slightly bigger screen on the DAC, the blue light on top of the transport and that’s basically it. ON the menus options and set up, lots more of alternatives. Some nice ones. Also more options when it comes to listening modes. Most of my listening has been done with no conversion at all nor digital filter, or with the new ESL3. The later so far seems very good, but need to try others.

Now into pure listening, the first thing I noticed when I got the new units was how detailed they were. Right out of the box, almost without the need even to warm up… And that is probably the single aspect that is most significant when you upgrade to the P02 D02 (from the P03 D03, or any other digital that I have heard for that matter). Not that you will not notice improvements in other areas of reproduction. You will. But the level of detail these things can deliver is just incredible. To define it as a next step or similar, is probably just falling short of it…

But, as said, this is not the only improvement as I have discovered with time and as hours of listening have been accumulated. I guess in this case, all the audiophile old topics apply. I will not go through them, or not through all of them at least in this post. Just the most relevant for now.

When I say as “detailed in sound” to a level that really impressed me, I don’t mean that you could actually hear new little things in old familiar recordings… which you could. That is to expect to some degree. What I mean, and lacking better words, is how deep it goes into the main sounds of such recordings. Those that were there already. These units puts them right in front of you in I way I have never heard before. With all their texture, pretended expression and different intensity. Not only like the real thing. It is in this sense, like the real thing performed first row for you. If you want to focus per instance on a single performer out of a recording of several or many, you can actually get so much into what he is doing, how he is doing it, is almost as if you could see it. Is incredible how articulated, how much detail of his playing is offered. But also the intensity, even the feeling, the little variations or changes he does while performing, all unnoticed before...

Take per instance a string instrument in a chamber performance. It does sound so much like the real thing. A violin, viola, cello... In quartets or quintets, it is impressive how you can follow first string from second, from viola. The cello, or the double bass as the case may be, not only goes deeper than in other digitals I’ve heard. It does so in a crystal clear way. Articulated, defined but also with lots of body and punch when needed. Like the real thing, again…. Not only that. You can almost see the stage in all it’s dimension and there, hear actually different intensity and tonality of the performers all the time, all at once. Really is hard to explain for me. In my natural tongue would be. Let alone English.

With big symphonic orchestras it is no less impressive to hear. In space and, once more in texture, tonality. As a whole it sounds fantastic. Right dimension, space, dynamics… It is just so coherent as a whole as well. And indeed very exciting.

I had never experienced before, aside than in real live, the difference between different performers or group of performers in such an extension. If you focus your attention on any of them individually playing, you can actually hear, almost see, what the particular performer is doing. Again inner detail is the word. As good as the 03s were in this regard, they are not even close to such fine level of detail and incredible amount of information transmitted. And those are big words, but it is what I hear and no matter how I say it, you have to hear it to know what I’m trying to describe.

The units are not forgiving. If the recording is bad, they will let you know right away. But even in those cases I do find a pleasure listening to good performances in not so good recordings. See, they are also very musical.

Which is probably the greatest achievement. Detail is the biggest improvement and most impressive. Combining it, with a musical, exciting, powerful lifelike presentation, is the hardest to achieve. ONe without all the detail would end up being boring or even tiring. But not the case... and so the mix what finally makes them different to any other ting i've heard before.

Soundstage is just as it should. Also an improvement. Well defined, and as deep and wide as the performance requires. You do not get a sting quartet the size of the Albert Hall. You get it the size it is. Likewise, listening to a symphony gives you the widest and deepest soundstage I have yet to hear from any other digital system.

Another special mention goes to bass, mid and low. It is another big gain. It goes deeper all right, but above all in a much (yes I know the 03s are great) more articulated and defined way.

I could go on and on. But for now I will have to stop. All I have said is quite something when I say it comparing to, nothing less, than the 03s, which for me were and still are one of the finest digital I have ever heard out there.

Frankly speaking I was not expecting this at all. I was expecting a gain, yes, but not of this kind. I do firmly think they are probably the best out there right now, in absolute terms. They are for sure, and not by a small margin, the best to anything I have listened before, including top Esoteric, but also others like top of the range dCS, Linn, ARC and others.

I will write more in a few days as I do more listening, but in the meantime, feel free to ask anything you may want to know.

Disclaimer:

Some of you know already, but for those who don't I have no interest, direct or indirect, economic or otherwise, relationship or similar, to the audio industry. Just an aficionado that loves music and the hobby. Also, I would urge you, if you consider buying such an expensive set, to listen and try at home in your system, and than decide by yourself. What I've written is a candid, honest, non interested feedback of what I hear. But as always it could to some, small or large extend, be conditional to specific system synergies, or personal perception/preferences.

HOpe this helps and that it proves useful. Not many (none actually that I've seen) info out there of this units (why?).

Best
Eelii

Sure.

I have the 02s as I had the 03s most of the time. Two balanced from transport to DAC. It is the only way as you know to upsample. Same as with the 03s. For cables I use 2 esoteric mexcell, their top of the line. i think they are called 6300. Very expensive really but just the best with these units. Got a pair second hand here, like new for half the price. Still expensive but well worth.

I also tried the ilink with the esoteric iLink cable. Very very good. Almost as good, and only a step bellow the balanced esoteric cables, (at a fraction of cost), and actually better than with other brands balanced cables... I wrote a post a few months back on the ilink cable and the 03s saying how good it was.

Regardin listening mode, I've done CDs with both original -ORG- (so no upconversion at all) and a new mode 48-bit/176.4kHz with new ES link 3. To me this last seems slightly better but not by much and no conclussive. In any case, all that I said above stands for both ORG, so no upsampling, and ES Link 3. Difference between these two is small, really, and many times subjective. Differences and improvements I describe above are, in my opinion, anything but small...

There is also a new Dual AES 8Fs (24-bit/352.8kHz), but have listened very litle this way. Still it was very good and can not say if better than ES Link 3 as of now.

The DSD with SACDs was just as impressive as the rest and the gain from 03s was similar.

See, to me ears, the differences with playing modes are small in the context we are speaking. A matter of taste or even recordings. The difference between the 02s and 03s is anything but small. And anyone should be able to tell fast, personal tastes aside, in my opinion again.

Noise floor is clearly lower. That is why I pressume you hear all those new details in recordings that were not there before. Lots of low level detail.

Harmonic richness... that was probably one of the words I was looking for last night while writing the mini review. That is in good part what i meant when I said you can go so deep into the music. It is very very detailed in such a way: the richness of the music is quite mazing. WIth all the texture, color, definition... however you want to call it.

A piano? You have to hear a solo piano with the 02s. Upper is more natural. Easy to hear the difference. Not that the 03s were bad at all. This is just better in my opinion. Not too soft or sweet, not too bright or agressive. And surely defined. Just right. Again very lifelike. Also other excellent things improving piano performances. The decay of notes, the dynamics, the strength but definition at once of lower registers... Also piano concertos, or piano chamber is much better defines and with the right proportion within the presentation. I was freaking out the other day with Rachmaninov 3rd and 2nd... Likewise a piano duet. Is like if you could actually see the 4 hands. Follow the notes as I haven't been able before. Easy to follow which is doing what and how. While at the same time, all together sounds fantastic.

Hope this helps. Let me know any other thing you may want to ask. Happy to help. If you are really considering them, try to borrow a unit for your house for a few days to compare. But do it if you are really prepared to pay the price. Chances are you will keep it...

Well I better stop this or I may get an offer from Esoteric... I read it myself and think it is overdone. But than go back to listen to them, and it is precisely what I hear that I try to write.

There is only one thing that really has me surprised. You can not read anything in the web, magazines or other about them. No reviews from your usual sources, or the like. They have been out for a while. With the quality of these things I am really surprised. So much was written in the past about other units, and so good. And having owned myself many of the top esoteric digitals, I can say to me this is the best by far. Still out there all is mute mode.

Wondering if it has to do with what other poster mentioned earlier about esoteric having some kind of tough times in the US. Maybe they can't pay adds or similar or other compensations in kind... to reviewers, and so they are being kind of ignored...?

One Q Pharma,

how do you have the clock out terminals connected to DAC an transport? Do you use both out terminals A from clock to transport and DAC and turn off terminals B and C,

or use A1 for DAC and B1 for transport, and turn off A2 and B2 (and both Cs)?

I tried Dsc some time ago. It was good but I don't think it was better than the 02s. at the time I liked esoteric better, although it was not the 02 I was comparing it to.

Although I can not say I am familiar with it and can not give a more detailed or conclusive answer.

They are very resolving indeed. Lots of detail and textures. But I guess that also has a lot to do with the rest of the system.

For the 02s, they are the most detailed I have heard. But also very musical. Compared with the 03s, they have managed to increase resolution while keeping the nice musicality.

Specific to your question, yes, the strings sound fantastic, and you can actually hear all the intrinsic sounds to the diferent instruments in a way I have notmheard in other systems.

Now the drums I could not assure you if you can tell the diference in quality of paper or leather... I am not that familiar with drums, and maybe that is too much of a claim by whoever makes it, but not sure., since do not listen to that much music with drums. Although the other day did listen to a jazz trio and drums were fantastic.

I agree to some extend with Pharma's findings, in the sense that the 03s strongest point was musicality. They had a warm character that made listening very pleasant. But I do not find the 02 less musical.

And also, that t is in the level of detail and resolution were the 02s are far superior.

But to me, they do so while keeping musicality intact. So in my case the level of enjoyment of music is higher by a good margin with the 02s since they do transmit more. You get things out of the performances, that you missed with the 03s. I do not mean little sounds that were not noticed before. You get some of those as well but that does not increase my enjoyment particularly. It is more in the details of how the performers play, the different degrees of intensity, speed, dynamics at micro levels that makes the difference.

Also different finding in bass and presence and body of instruments. Bass is in my case more present and better defined. Also presence and body of instruments is a large improvement with the 02s. The 03s were very good, but they were more flat, in the sense that different recordings and performances sounded more alike. The 02s unveils differences that I did not hear with the 03s.

I guess some of this are system specific. Also the fact that I use the P02 with the specific transfer link to the D02s can make a difference, but there I do not know for sure since I have never tried them with the P01.

Overall some common findings and some differences, that again I think have to do with system and maybe the transport.

Interesting and quite extensive try out. Congrats. That is the way to go.

I am not sure if when you get the P02 your impression of a bit of harsh and forward will change or not. I think likely not but we will see.

I don't know why you are getting that. Has to be system related or cables. or maybe taste/preference. The line between detailed and harsh can be thin. And these are detailed all right. but I do find them very musical too. More so with playing time.

I now added the new G-01. Increased musicality all around alongnwith the rest of things. But most impressive right now is the dynamics, impact and weigth of presentation. It is quite something.

These things with the clock are even more impresive. I have tried it in the past (the old model) with the P03 D03 and found little improvement. Had it home twice and never went for it.

Dont know why but with the 02s and the new G01 the improvement is very nice and evident. It may have to do with the fact that my speakers now are diferent and more resolving or the new componets are, or a mix. But the adition of the clock makes a large improvement I never heard before with this kind of gear. I recomend it.

Yes that is the way it should be. And is why I wanted to try out the clock once more and would not have ordered without listening to it first.

As I said, with the 03s I had the old G-0rb home for a try out twice. WHile I think I could hear a difference, that was to the small side of things, not always for the best, and after a while decided that my findings were not conclusive at all. So both times I decided not to go for it, given price and the improvement I got. Was surprised given what I read all over, but it was what I heard.

So with the 02s I also got to demo the same G-0rb, which haven't been sold still... to demo it. And the difference this time around was evident and affected all aspect of sound. Without entering into specific details of where it got better, I will say the listening experience was much more enjoyable. So I ordered the new G-0. This was an easy decision this time. It took me very little listening to have it clear. If cost is not a problem, the difference is very high.

WIth the G-0, I can say that the improvement was even better. Was not like going from no clock to a clock, but still again all improved more. SO in my system the difference between the 2 clocks are also evident, being the new superior. It does basically the same thing with the music, but to a greater extend. And still breaking in. But sounded fantastic almost from day 1.

So if it is not the clock model that makes the listenable difference, since I would have bought the old model too if the new was not out, it can only be, in my case 2 things that made me not hear this differences before so clearly

The 03s models benefit less of this (doubt it) or given it's less resolving nature, the effect is less evident.

or my system was not capable of showing this up. I tend to think it may be a mix of both, but weighting the second much more. The only major change in my system in between try outs really is in the speakers. Although it was a big one: went from the B&W 800Di, to the TAD R1. The B&W I do like them very much and I think for the cost they deliver big time. But they can not compare to the R1s in any aspect of sound (as you would hope and expect too given price difference...). So here is where I think the explanation can be.

As for cables, the Esoteric 6100 BNC for clock and the 2 DA6300 for digital are also by far best I've heard with these. Guess is synergy or that they are designed with these units in mind. The 6300 makes a big difference with any other cable I have tried. I would love to try the PCs, but having a hard time finding them for a try out. And also I am quite happy with the sound I am getting so if I can or find a good opportunity I will give them a try but not really actively looking at it. The rest of cables seem to work well. I have also a pair of 6300 form the DAC to the pre, and SR for PC. SC are Siltech Emperor. The warmer nature of the SR and the Siltech may also help to get a musical presentation, along with some tubes in the chain (in my case ARC 40 anniversary pre).

As for filters I leave that off in all cases. For CDs I use the mode they recommend with the P02: the ES link3. For SACD I do DSD. SCADs are fantastic. Nad CDs are very good as well, but if the recording is poor you can tell. But that is the way it should be I think. Transmit what is there, not alter it. But even in these cases the listening I find it very enjoyable.

Regarding clock, are you using the G-0 or the G-0rb?

Yes it is. Big difference for the good in all aspects. Wrote about it back in the post.

Also, just noticed. There is a big difference in reproduced sound depending on how the xlr gain is configured in the D02 if you are using preamp. 0db which is factory default or +6db.

Hi Jon2020

Actually no. In my case it is the other way around. i like it better with xlr set at 0db. Need to listen some more since the diference is actualy not small. I am surprised. Only diference should be in the higher or lower signal coming out but sound print does change. Not sure I understand why.

My tought is that it may not be better or worse per se but depending on preamp and what it likes better to see or similar. In my case the sound character you would expect from the ARC ref 40 ann. seems more evident. Also being able to take vol. higher at preamp may make a dif. Not sure what it is. But need to listen more and will try to asses better.

Hi Tom, we are having this conversation in parallel :-)

Did not realize this thread was so active again. ON cables you now already, right? Just check for the new models II of 6300 if you are going for them. Or if the same is coming out for the 6100 which I haven't heard but I think they could soon.

The kid inside you will be very happy indeed! congrats.

No is the other way around. I do like 0db better. At least for now. Need to listen more, but I used to play at +6db and changed to 0db to try. Was surprised with how different it sounded. In theory it should have only affected signal level but it does change the sound footprint. I find at 0db the sound is more pleasant and engaging. relaxed in a good way. more analog like if you want. Fantastic both ways though may be a matter of likes or system matching. For me now I am enjoying very much the sound at 0db.

For low volume listening I think clearly the best is 0db.

Yes, it is very much like you describe that I find. Also I am finding tha the choose of desired cables for the analog out of the Dac changes. With output at transport at 6 I liked better siltech. But with it at 0db i like better mexcel 6300 there. These are faster cables, not so relaxed as siltech, so I guess it gets you closer to a middle point or something like that.

Need to listen more since this is a surprise kind of. Would not have expected any change from just raising or lowering the output gain of balanced in transport besides the vol difference. Actaully havent touch that in almost 2 years... But it does. Cheers

BTW, I am sure Alex could give a very good tech. Explanation of why this is, if he is around, and would be appreciated.

Hi Tom,

yes it is good to see it is gaining momentum again.

Yes I understand what you say regarding the WW recommendations. I have no experience at all with them. I assume they are very good but have no idea. One thing that I found strange was the claim the 6300 was compared side by side with the WW and that WW was way better. Not saying it may not be the case, I have no idea. But under such configuration of K01 and G01, that comparation is not possible since 6300 does not have a BNC termination as option. The top BNC model of mexcel is the 6100. Maybe just a mistake, and it was 6100 vs WW, don't know. In any case each one has to take advise as what it is worth for.

Regarding Mexcel it is also my understanding that Mexcel is used internally in these units, so even more reasons to try. YOu may like or not what you hear. That is a different thing. But if I had to try 3 brands from scratch, mexcel would be for sure one of them for this gear.

I have experience with SR, but more with their line tesla and not so much with the elements. I do like the Teslas. The digital I used before mexcel was actually their top digital model of the old Tesla line. I liked better mexcel when I tried and decided to change, although the SR were good too.

PCs I actually still use their SR HD; the top model of the old tesla line for digital application power cords. To tell you the truth I have done very little tests on PC with these units so far. I like the current HD I am using and so my priorities where elsewhere. However in a few days I am going to have the new Mexcel PC 9500 to try a the 3 esoteric units. Will report my findings if they are of your interest.

I will surely update you on the P9500. I am very much looking forward to hear these with esoteric. Should be with me mid next week or so. Not clear still if i will buy a 6300 II or not. I may or leave it for later. Also want to compare with the old one.

Tom, you can be sure you will like it better with clock. It did make a big dif in my system in all areas.

The 01s I am sure it will be better. How much still to be seen. But I think it makes more sense to upgrade gear so no component is clearly infeior to the rest of system or that is what you will get. Or at least the improvement will be much less than it should. Myself, the next upgrade I have in mind is the amps. The 01s, besides price, the problem is where to place all those boxes. Is 2 extra boxes you need to make space for. And also no streaming capabilities for me is a big miss. We will hear anyway more on these in the future.

One more question regarding configuration of menus for the 02s.

When using only the P02 as input for the D02. In the P02 configuration menu under up convert, you choose whatever alternative you prefer. Do you leave the up convert configuration option in the D02 as "original" or do you use the same alternative as with the P02. Or it does not make any difference.

I remember this was a doubt I had when I first got the units. I left it at the time as Original. Now playing with the menu for the XLR signal configuration I just saw this again and was wondering what other are doing.

Tom, I use SR power cell. I like the sound with the esoteric plugged to it. However I am waiting for a PP 3000 unit that I want to try since I have heard very good things of it. It may take a while to get it here, but the concept of protection, unlimited power, and battery support is very appealing, plus I have had excellent feedback on it. Will report on it, although still do not have confirmation of delivery date.

PS I use to have the PPP I think it was called. I did not like the sound of it too much in my system. To my hears it sounded better directly to the line. Although that was a while back and not with the 02s, but with the 03s. I do feel the 02s do benefit from a good power conditioner, but as always with these, it can make things better or worse. So I guess some models make them improve from connecting to the wall and some make them worse.

In the case of power cell is a bit of a trade off. You get better dynamics although music is a bit less "fluent" sort of speak. Overall I do prefer it with the power cell. With the PPP it was the other way around. We will see with the PS unit.

No sorry, the Pure power 3000+.

It is a canadian manufacturer.

I already have the PC9500. Will report findings soon. Have them in the DC, transport and DAC.

Will have another 2 for amps tomorrow or day after.

Congrats Tom!!!! I remember my clock did arrive also well in advance estimated delivery time.

You have 3 pairs of terminals out of the clock A, B and C. They are A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2. I did some test initially connecting Transport to A1 and DAC to B1, and closing all other outputs, or connecting transport and DAC to both A1 and A2, and closing all Bs and Cs, outputs. This last combination was advised by esoteric and so that is how I have it. I thought I heard differences between the 2 ways of connecting, but it was during break in time so that could have been. Esoteric said that the 02s are considered a system together so better to connect both to the As outputs. Very important to close the other 4 outputs Bs and Cs.

As to the mode, you will have to change both transport and DAC and set the clock menu: Use direct master clock link at 22.5792MHz.

You will love it since moment one. Will improve with time, I assume, but I remember I did like it very much right out of the box.

Get a cable!!!!!!

Yes. Do go step by step. I think considering you have one BNC already and are used to the sound of it, it will be cheaper and also easier to asses the impact of the clock by isolating changes.

Once you get used to it, you can better much better identify digital cable changes, while also you recover from the expense :-)

Interconnects may make sense to be your next cable upgrade. And PC. I am assesing right now the 9500s in the 3 digital. Being listening for 2 days now. Do not want to jump ahead of time so will be reporting findings in a couple of days more. But they are very good. How good I will share soon.

Great. Exactly as expected. It is anything but small. The gain is widespread and large. Makes the 02s an even better system.

Ok so after listening for 5 days to the 3 mexcel PC9500 at my P02/D02/G01 this much I can say. These are incredible power cords. Easely the best I have ever heard. At least in my system. Not going to enter into all the details becouse you have read them already in any given review when a reviewr wants to say any product is the best ever... All the topics apply to the max extend... Just two notes. If you want to know how deep, how much impact, and how controlled, defined and realistic you esoteric can play, you need to try these out. It is brutal at some stages and very realistic. Second my advise to anyone thinking on expending money on power cords, would be to try these first.

I am going to leave a comment from a industry designer of high end gear that shared with me before I tried them. It proved very accurate, and although not the typical overdone bunch of claims, it may be useful.

"I have to admit I do not know a better power cord as the 9500 up to now and I tested a lot)

The sound is faster, more dynamic and has on the other hand more black background. (The range from silent to full music is much more)
Tonal overtones from instruments are more vivid and the cable sounds sweet - but not to sweet- it is very neutral on the other hand.

Details in the music are much easier to perceive."

Yes that is the case and then more...

Cant wait till I get the next two for amps. Will report what an extra 2 adds. They have gotten lost somewhere with the courier...

Tom, I know... I am based in Spain and pay them in Euro. Not sure in the US. Their old top model was priced around 5K USD I think, but you see some second hand of the old model at good discounts. Not all the time but they can be found. So I guess there will be some 9500 in a while. Hey, is not like the 02s sound bad with other power cords you now that... All I say is that if you have some PCs you are happy with but you are thinking in upgrading right away, it may be worth to take your time and listen to these along other candidates. And then asses if it is worth it or not given the price. You may find that it is not, or the other way around, and decide to wait to find them second hand or whatever before upgrading to other less expensive but not as good.

Powercell I have the Galileo I think MKII. It is good. Do not have any experience with the CLS power cords.

I bought the CLS speaker cables and had for trial the CLS interconnects balanced.
I no longer have the SC and sold them not too long after. And decided not to buy the interconnects. They were good, but the sound is different in the element series than it was in their Tesla line, and I actually liked the sound of the old Tesla line better. I assume is very system specific. The Powercell I still keep it though, and although I will be trying a new power conditioner soon, I think I will keep the power cell, since it gives a very particular presentation that I may want to revisit every now and then.

SR has a very characteristic sound in my opinion. There are things they do very well. As said it is a very particular music presentation that you have to like. If you like it, you will love it. Read this review: I find it very interesting and actually accurate. What the reviewer reports is very close to what I hear as well. I think it can be of help to you.

http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-357&lang=en

In any case as always I would advise for you to listen first. Assume you have heard them in your system? Those are easily available for trial in the US. I think even SR has a trial program for the US, which is a good thing and shows confidence in their products.

Hope this helps

That's a good deal. Given them 2 or 3 days and you will now. If you can first plug and try the powercell alone. Listen for 3 or 4 days and asses on it alone. And then plug the CTS power cords to be able to tell which does what. The power cell in my experience has a different effect altogether than the cables. They may add to the equation or not. But they are 2 different set of products each doing its thing, and you may like one or other or both.

22,5 for clock is what is typically recommended by Esoteric. That is what I use, although I have not tried any other to say the truth.

Regarding up sampling I do use 48/176 and happy with this setting. I leave all filters off otherwise. To me it sounds very well this way. Again have not done extensive listening with any other settings. Only esporadic. Maybe some day. For now I am happy this way.

Hi Opera Lover. Haven't read the documents you attach. I will.

But I had in my house the P02/D02 with the old G-0Rb for a trial and the sound was fantastic. Great improvement. I did use 1). Both units connected to the clock. I would imagine that is the best way of doing it by far. Did not even imagine connecting it the 2) way so can not comment but the whole point of it is the accuracy of the clock signal, I think.

Anyway try it. I think the advantage should be evident of 1) over 2) but let us know. As I said here, when I deciding to buy the new G-0 I tried first the 02s with the old model. The gain was great. It improved with the new clock even farther.

But the gain was greater from going with no clock to the G-0rb, than that of going from the old model to the new model. So enjoy.

Hi Tom, happy new year to you and all! Sorry for the time out. Have been traveling for work then busy with family and more work... Need to read and do some catch up here. It is on fire all right. Congrats for the baby!

The 9500s I have them now all around the system. Fully powered by them. They are great PC all around. But the single place where the dif is just huge is in digitals. Like if they were designed for this gear. In amps and preamps they are great. But with the 3 digitals the gain is just incredible. I do recommend a listen in this aplication.

Also for those wanting the rgiht cable for the esoterics... Try the new 6300II. I changed my old 6300 from dac to preamp for a 6300II and it is also a great gain. Have not tey it in digital aplication but for sure something I will do.

Will reply to other posts next few days

All the best

Thanks Tom. Yes I understand what you say with SR. I think is a particular sound. Nice in any case but to keep either You love it or not.

For the digital esoteric I really encourage to try the 9500. I think they may be the best alternative out there. Just my opinion. As said the improvement under this aplication is much greater than in preamp or even amps. But given the price of the things you need to be able to try out first before spending the cash.

Pharma do not have pre experience with the 9300. But it is the quitest PC i have listened. Huge soundstage very estructured presentation, detailed, fast and musical at the same time. Sounds a bit like on thesiltech side of things, but with more extended highs and faster.

The 6300 II have a lower noise floor. Easely perceived. They are more detailed, with more extended bass than mk1. A very good balanced cable. Musical with body but also fast extended and detailed.

Have not tried it yet as a digital cable. Will report on that too.

Best
Eli

Yes I agree. See if you can get a demo somehow. Spending that much blind on cables is a great act of faith. I think you will like them, almost sure, but the degree of improvement can vary greatly from one system to another and you could find it is not worth it. The problem as you know is that you need 3 of them...