Hi Colekat:
Very nice system. Some people are using d02 directly with power amp. Are you happy with Brystons and did you audition other power amps. ?
Happy New Year. |
Hi Eelii,
I absolutely agree with your comments regarding the clock. It makes it more musical, "more analog" with better dynamics. It sounds like areal event rather than a reproduction of it with the clock. Also the sound stage is now rock solid and bigger. It is more "3D". |
Hi Eelii,
I have the same dac and using it with p01 vu and g0rb. It has only 30 hrs. by now. It replaced d03 dac.
Did the slightly thin presentation you were describing initially in the form went away or is it still a bit lean compared to p03/d03 ?
I am using Esoteric 7n-pc7300 ac cable and it made it sound a bit smoother tighter and less lean with better vocals right away. But it still sounds a bit leaner than D03.
|
I will compare the new d02 dac with d01, and d03 with Esoteric p01vu transport and G0rb clock next week. I also have Accuphase dp900/dc901 to compare.
Digital and AC cables are Esoteric. Interconnects are Van Den Hul 3T Mountain and Esoteric 6n-da6300. |
At last I completed my comparison.
My comparison was made by using p01vu transport and G0rb atomic clock. Most listening was done with either filter off or short delay 1, no upsampling but in some rare cases with dsd upsampling. I used cds and sacds covering classical, rock, jazz and pop favorites. Cables were from Esoteric. Amps used were Pass(x600 and pre), McIntosh (400 & pre), and Krell. Speakers were Focal 907be.
I agree with Eelii on resolving power of D02. It is more detailed than d03 and any other dac I heard. It projects a very precise holographic 3d sound stage.
But I disagree on musicality. D03 simply sounds more cohesive and musical to my ears. It can even be considered very slightly euphonic. Vocals were more "human" with D03.
Note that I am using p01 vu as transport with atomic clock.
D02 is more revealing and sometimes has tendency to sound very slightly detached or a bit thin. It works better with a neutral or warmer system rather than a lean one.
On the other hand some may find D03 a bit warm in another system.
Their sonic signature is close, yet they still sound
different.
It all comes down to personal taste in my opinion. |
I can say that if you are going to use the usb and mostly well recorded cds and if it matches your systems sonic signature D02 is the winner.
When compared with older top of the line d01, it was more refined and smoother. Low level details were better on D02. On the other hand D01 had this powerful presence and texture of the instruments were sometimes better on the d01.
With sacd only comparison D03 was the best sounding with more analog like ease. |
More with d02 and d03...
Instruments have more body with d03. On the other hand D02 sounds clearer with extremely low background noise. When it comes to bass D03 has more impact, but D02 lacking slight thickness and warmth of D03 has faster bass and slightly better timing. As for the treble D02 is the clear winner with more extended yet silky smooth highs.
If you dont dissect and over analyze their performance, and
evaluate it as a whole, then I would say d03 in most cases is more musical with more analog like sound. (probably due to the slight warmth in mid bass and better bass impact resulting with more body)
|
Hi Eelii,
When I compared p03/d03 with p01vu/d03 (note that vu version of the p01 is better than regular p01) I had the same finding.
P03/d03 was too laid back, lacking bass impact and body and was flat.
p01vu changed the sound dramatically. It works well with d02, but I think d03 is more back rows, while d02 front. D02 sounds more forward with somehow more ambient information about sound stage.(usually forward sounding electronics give less ambient information.)
I simply found more emotion in some recordings (for ex: Diana Krall The Girl in The Other room SACD, Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here SACD, ZAZ les passants cd, Jenny Evans Shiny Stockings cd and most obvious difference came with Carla Bruni quelqu'un m'a dit cd- more emotional and human on d03)
I decided to keep both and evaluate them with my new system which is Soulution pre/power and Stella Utopia.
I will also compare them with Soulution 745. |
My dealer will bring a p02 ,so I will compare p02/d02 with p01/d03 and 2 transports with d02. Next month I am planning to compare it with the new dCS Vivaldi if I can get a hold on to a demo Vivaldi DAC or maybe system and Soulution 745. |
For now my verdict is that D02 is one of the most detailed converters around. Unfortunately it is neither one of the smoothest nor the most musical with cds. It can be a bit harsh and forward with some material. Compared with it Accuphase is smoother but uninvolving and also seriously lacking in bass. D03 also is smoother but less detailed and smaller in sound stage.
I have high hopes regarding the new dCS Vivaldi... |
About slight harshness, I observe it only with some cds never with sacds or well recorded cds. It may also the revealing power of the DAC. It cant change a bad remaster into a good one. I will try p02 just to hear if 352khz upsampling (similar to DXD) and the new aes link would make a difference. (p01vuk does 176 or 192k upsampling) |
For now, I enjoy no upsampling and short delay 1 filter or no filter with most cds. When I use D03 no filter is my favorite setting. I use upsampling with the new 32 bit fim cds (they are remastered or mastered with 32 bit processing and 88 or 96k in most cases, so I use matching upsampling rate) or xrcds. Brightness issue improved a lot with the new Acrolink BNC cables that I use with the clock.
Also another observation is that the ac cables make a lot of difference tonally (more bass, better bass slam, less bright, etc..). Slight harshness may also be power cable related, so I will try Nordost Odin and the rare Esoteric/Acrolink 7n-pc9300, 9100 or the new 7500 as well. |
Another observation is that some cds sound better with homogeneous harmonics and better musicality in 88/96k (or x2) than 176/192k (or x4) and some sound better at plain 44k. As for the filters s-dly1 is better with plain 44k, but I prefer fir or no filter with higher sampling rates. Filter off option makes vocals more natural.
Lesser or relentless recordings sound better with D03 due to its more laid back, slightly warmer and less revealing nature. On the other hand D02 is absolutely neutral and it reveals everything without changing anywhere.
To me clock makes equally big difference on both D03 and D02. |
Hi Eelii ,
It is G0rb. The clock makes a big difference with both converters.
I use DA6300 as an interconnect and 8n-a2800 as AES.
I tried the opposite configuration but 8n-a2800 was less resolute and slightly warmer as an interconnect.
I prefer filter off in good recordings and especially vocals, but with lesser recordings I prefer short delay 1 in d-02 and fir with d-03.
Sacd is great with both dacs. D02 is holographic with pin point imaging but slightly dry and forward.
I would go for TAD cr1 or r1. They have life like dynamics and incredible resolution. Their only sin is that they are a bit forward and very slightly thin sounding in mid- treble region. My favorite is Stella Utopia. |
Hi Eelii,
I use terminal A and and turn off terminals B and C. I didnt try the other option. I cant use 100k universal option with D-02. Also when I am using sacds with d02 sometimes the clock doesnt lock or takes longer to lock in.
When this happens I turn off the dac, and the clock locks in without a problem. This happens rarely only with some sacds. |
Hi Zephyr,
Good decision. You can upgrade your transport later. You can also transfer all your cds (as for the sacds some people use a special program on sony ps3 and transfer it) to lossless flac files and use your usb on D02. |
Hi Zephyr,
You're welcome. What is the rest of the system ? |
Hi Zephyr,
Very good system. What are the speakers ? |
Hi,
I am not familiar with Legacy speakers. I read the review in Absolute Sound. It is a lot speaker for 9k. I recommend some other speakers to audition. From Focal 1038be (it is also a lot of speaker for 9k), From Magico S5, From Dali Epicon 8(another fine ex. of speaker with ribbon tweeter) and From Sonus Faber Amati Futura ( its sweeter, warmer and rounded balance matches Esoteric's slightly forward and dry balance). |
At last I compared transports as well. I did the test without upsampling by using d02 dac and with short delay filter 1, clock was G0rb.
P02 sounded more open, vocals breathed outside the speakers more and overall there was slightly more detail with cds compared to p01 vu. P01 vu was a bit darker. On the other hand p02 sounded a bit leaner with less body and it was slightly forward overall. This forward presentation projected vocals more in to the room. P02 was revealing a bit more in the upper mid and treble.
The new transport during loud passages was able to separate voices a bit more than the p01 vu. As for the sacds the difference was smaller.
Also p02 has the advantage to upsample to DXD (354khz or 8x)or 48bit which I didnt test. |
To Colekat:
It is worth using G0rb or G01 clock with p02/d02.
To Eelii08:
After comparing p01vuk with p02 I have decided to switch to p02. Even tough it was lacking ultimate bass and laidback nature of the p01, p02 was more open, clear and had a bigger soundstage, also during louder passages p02 wasnt a bit coarse or busy. There is a smaller difference with cds.
I prefer s-dly1 filter and no upsampling or 2x with cds. To me 4x and other filters shrinked the soundstage and made the sound a bit bright. |
I dont think they will be available in US soon. It will probably cost near 100k without the clock. From the specs, technological details I felt that it was an improved p02/d02 rather than a complete novelty. Especially the transport is so similar to p02 I would hesitate paying twice or more.
That is why I want to explore other choices. |
There is an important difference between the G0rb and G01. They are both using the same rubidium clock unit inside, but the rest is different. G01 is a Master clock (22mhz, etc.) replacing the master clock signal in dac, and a Word (44.1 khz, etc) clock. The older G0rb is only a Word clock. The older transports has pll and accept word clock. The new P02 doesnt use a pll chip to make things purer and simpler. So it would be the best if you are using G0rb only with D02, and then slave the D02 with P02. If you are using G01 you will get the best performance by using it as a master clock (22mhz). |
Btwy, The new Grandioso P1/D1 is out in Japan probably to compete with dCs Vivaldi. The transport is using the exact same transport mech. as the p02. It has more advanced upsampling that is capable of true DXD 32 bit 352khz versus the p02's 24 bit 352khz. Also its power supply consisted of similar 4 transformers like p02 is housed in a different chassis like the older p01vuk.
As for the D1 it is a dual mono design like the older d01 and is using 16 dacs per ch. and 36 bit processing (an obvious marketing gimmick if you ask me) versus the D02's 8 dacs per ch. and 35 bit processing. It has a completely different analog output stage. Its USB can accept DSD as well. |
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everybody. |
To Eelii08:
I meant there is a smaller difference between both transports with SACDs. |
To Tony:
You havent told me the result of your comparison. |
How are the Snake River Audio and Boomslang cables ? I have never heard them. Did you compare them with any cables ? Also most people including me are sometimes complaining or noticing that the p02/d02 is a bit forward compared to older Esoteric products and some competitors (Accuphase, Soulution). Did any of these cables change this ? Some people recommend Odin or Valhalla 2 AC cables to make the overall sound more cohesive and flowing with ease. |
Colekat: Thanks.
I am using Acrolink/Esoteric 6300 xlr. between transport and dac. I am using another 6300 between dac and preampand sometimes a Van Den Hul 3T The Mountain which is less detailed but warmer and more cohesive that works better with lesser recordings. I will listen to Valhalla 2 and some others as well. I am considering Acoustic Revive for aes/ebu connection instead of 6300.
Which BNC cables are you using for the clock ? |
Thanks Colekat. I will try Wireworld as well. Esoteric 6300 is also very extended and very resolute (in its price range) and like you I am using a slightly warmer or less resolute cable with CDs.
I compared P02/D02 with Accuphase, Krell, Meitner Labs and Soulution as well.
On SACDs nothing came close. But with cds Soulution 745 had better bass, and sounded smoother and a lot more refined. Esoteric had way more resolution in the top octaves. Esoteric sounded slightly forward with holographic sound stage on the other hand Soulution was more laid back,.
I didnt like Accuphase, it was lacking ultimate bass and vocals were flat.
So when you balance the p02/d02's sound with a bit warm and laid back cable (only cd playback) you will get best of both worlds. |
To Colekat :
I am not settled yet. I will audition the new Soulution 745 with DSP upgrade. And there is dCS Vivaldi which is bugging me.
Cd sound improves a lot with the right settings from dac and of course with the right cable choice.
To Zephyr:
How are the Kubala Sosna cables compared to other cables you tried ?
So far best cables I have heard are Odin and Valhalla 2 which are very expensive. |
Colekat:
What is your system ? |
To Guido:
Yes, I did with the regular p01 and p03 side by side. It sounds more smilar to p01 than p03. P03 or P01 sound more refined, smooth and musical than x-01 as a transport. The highs are silkier on p03 and p01 versus X-01. There is more clarity, bass extension (especially with p01)and the sound stage is bigger. There is more of a natural free flowing character that is usually attributed to analog with p03 and p01 versus X-01. I recommend either of them and either of them sounds better than x-01, but for you p01 vuk would be a better choice in my opinion due to similar sound signature they have. I compared most of the transports with D03 dac. So, since you have a different dac and system I recommend to compare it in your system. |
To Colekat:
D-02 is a very good DAC, but it is a bit dry and forward for my taste. It is a matter of taste of course, like wine people have different tastes. Some like dry Pinot Noir, others Merlot with full body. I compared many other digital gear, and so far D02 had the highest resolution, biggest and most accurate sound stage with prper instrument delineation, space, size and right timbre.
I suspect that my complaints are coming from the output stage, not the digital circuitry. I prefer a more laid back and relaxed presentation. I also prefer a bit more mid bass. As for the SACDs , many people would disagree, I like my older D03 dac that sounds more analog. USB with hi-res material sounds superb, and can compete with the very best.
I like older p01/d01 vuk combo and Soulution 745 as well.
As for the amplification my favorites are Soulution, Dan D'Agostino and Audio Research. I liked Soulution monoblocks the best. My second best is Dan D'Agostino. If you like valves I would recommend Audio Research and VTL. It all comes to personal taste. Also dont forget, there is no such thing as perfect sounding gear. The magic lies in the right combination of the equipments and cables. Like Soulution pre/power with Focal Stella Utopia,etc.. |
Hi Guidocorona,
x01 as a transport has a similar sound signature, which is a bit on the thicker and warmer side, as the p01. |
To Zephyr:
Thank you for the comparison. I will audition elation. |
Happy, Healthy and Wealthy (so that we can invest more in high end) New Year ! |
To Guido:
Happy New Year. I will try Nordost Sort Titanium Kone. I recommend a used p01 or P02 since there are very low prices nowadays. You will hear more refinement and bigger, more precise sound stage. I found that Transports make much bigger difference than Dacs. |
To Csmsart :
I compared all the Esoteric transports with the exception of the new p1.
There is a big leap from p05 to p03. You can find very good prices for a second hand or demo. There is another big leap from p03 to p01 vuk (I liked upgraded vuk version better). P02 has a different sonic signature with less mid bass thickness or warmth, but with more openness and bigger sound stage. I personally liked the p01vuk and p03. Older transports are more susceptible to right "footing" or isolation. For the price performance ratio I strongly recommend a demo or less used P03. You wont be disappointed. Happy New Year. |
To Eli,
How is the mid band with 9500 compared to other cables you tried or stock cables ? The 7300 I used is great on bass but darkened and flattened the mid band. |
I rank Esoteric transports like this :
1-p01 vuk and p02
2-p03
3-p05
4-x-01
Dacs when playing pcm/cd:
1-d02 and d01 vuk
2-K01 as dac
3-d03
4-d05
Dacs when playing DSD/SACD
1-D-03 and D-02 (my favorite is D03 with SACDs)
2-D-01 (it down converts sacds to 88k or 176k pcm)
3-D-05
This is just my personal opinion and taste your observations may be different. |
To Guido:
I didnt compare directly p05 transport with x-01 as a transport, but I rather compared p05/d05 with x-01. So, x-01 being ranked as 4th may not be accurate, but it is definitely ranked below p01,p02 and p03. |
You're welcome.
I liked the DAC stage of K01. I compared it when it first came out back in 2011 with p03/d03. The DAC stage was better than d03 with pcm or cds. I first didnt like the sound of K01 compared to p03/d03. I found it too dry for my taste. When I connected p03 to K01, and used it as a DAC, I got better results, more refinement, more body, etc. Even tough they share the same mechanism (vmk 3.20) with the new p02 and p1 transports, k01 didnt perform like them as a transport. This could be due to better power supply or circuitry in dedicated transports or the clock. When used as a DAC It is close to D02. When I was doing this comparison I didnt use G0rb clock (I purchased it later). All comparisons are made with cds, since there was no way of outputting or inputting dsd to or from k01. That is why I didnt mention K01 as a transport. It would be ranked below p03 as a transport in my personal opinion. I would go for a dedicated transport if you need one. You can get a p03 or p01 nowadays for less than K01 if you need a transport. |
To Colekat :
I place Esoteric transports above all. I am not a big fond of The new D02 dac in some areas I mentioned before. I think K series of single box players and D02 are the first examples of a new era in Esoteric sound and the following Dacs will be better. I compared extensively p01vuk, p02 and p03 with Accuphase Dp 900 as well. I liked p01vuk, and p02 over Accuphase transport in all the areas I give importance to. Also as you know The new dCS Vivaldi is using Esoteric vmk3 and also Soulution is using Esoteric transport. It is well proven top transport. There are other choices like belt driven CEC which I didnt audition, but heard that it had some reliability problems related to belt.
I need to hear the new Esoteric D1 and dCS Vivaldi Dac for a comparison listing.
For The transports they are the top reference in my list.
As for The Accuphase I would rank it highly only in an Accuphase only system. I liked Esoteric (p01vuk/d03 or d02) better in most areas, except ultimate refinement than Accuphase. I simply had more fun and enjoyed the music through Esoteric than Accuphase. So, in fact I like the house sound of Esoteric but the older one, not the new one which can be related to the AKM dac chips or the output stage. I also like Soulution cd players.
Like I said it all comes down to personal taste. |
To Colekat:
There is one area that I disagree regarding the Esoteric gear, their resale value is not good if you paid for a new gear. |
To colekat:
I paid around 30k for a new special order p01 vuk in 2011 November (almost 2012). It is resale value is aound 10-12k now. I paid 13K for D03 Dac in March 2011 and its resale value is around 5-6k if you are lucky. I paid 15k for g0rb and it is resale value is 6-7K. As for the new D02 DAC I got a good deal for a new one for 15k (list 24k) and its resale value is less than 11-13k if you can sell it.
But if you buy them used or demo they pretty much keep their value depending on the deal. |
To colekat:
Now I am on the verge of switching to the new p1/d1 or Vivaldi or maybe the new Soulution 745 with the new upgraded DSP.
I will try to hear and compare all of them. |
To Colekat:
You're welcome. It is more like personal opinion based on personal taste and some experience. I would be glad if they are helpful in anyway.
To Guido :
If you buy a dedicated Esoteric transport to be paired with Rowland Aeris DAC, please tell me about your findings. |
To Colekat:
As for the P01 VUK transport (list 42k, my deal was 30k) there is a huge loss of value. Now it is worth %25-30 of its value. That is why I recommend buying last possible gear possible or if an older design a used or demo piece. |
If I End up liking D1, I will continue using p01 for some time. I will sell or trade in both D02 and D03 DACs.
As for The Vivaldi DAC I will do the same, but I will keep The D03 for SACD playback since dsd is only possible through USB or by using Vivaldi Transport.
As for the third option, if the winner is Soulution everything will go. |
