I would definitely buy Aurender N200 first, ahead of your Venus II and later step up to Terminator II when funds permits. You’ve already optimized ethernet by way of ENO in your system so that’s one less thing you need to worry :-)
New DAC or New Streamer?
This should be fun. After I pay to get my amp upgraded at VAC next month I plan to either upgrade my DAC or Streamer next. I should have enough for that by late spring/early summer. I'm retired so I save some each month until I have what I need. My system is in my user profile. But to keep this simple my current DAC is the Dinafrips Venus II I got a year ago. (I also have the Hermes DDC)
My streamer is the Cambridge CXN V2 via coax to the Hermes-> I2s -> DAC which is also 1 year old. I was just getting into streaming then and knew little about it. I have learned a lot this past year, a whole lot.
I think the bottle neck is leaning more toward the streamer. It seems the DAC is pretty good, I know there are much better DAC's out there but it holds it own I think. Maybe not? I cannot afford the likes of DCS, Lampizator, etc.
The next planned upgrades are a Terminator II DAC and Aurender N200 Streamer. Both are $5000-$6000. (Unless I go for the Terminator + DAC that is $7500 but I am not sure it is $2500 better than the Terminator II)
So, since both will get upgraded a year apart, which should I go for first? Which would provide the biggest upgrade?
Thanks. Happy holidays to all.
Showing 18 responses by lalitk
The OP is aiming at his end game digital front end. Your suggestions so far suggests an entry level streamer options which is clearly opposite OP’s goal. +1, @charles1dad “A mediocre source will impede a good DAC”. |
“Curious if that bottleneck would become even more pronounced with a better DAC? ” @toro3 No doubt Innuos is good but another most important thing to consider when choosing a streamer is the control app you will be using to manage your music library and browsing music from cloud based streaming services. The Aurender’s conductor app is by far the best app in terms of simplicity, robustness and SQ. This is a critical part of the experience with streamers and usually the difference maker once you get past the hardware implementation. Yes, you pay a bit more upfront with Aurender but you’re getting a lot more in return. The outstanding build quality, excellent customer support and an app interface that’s easy to navigate without impacting the sound quality unlike ROON which we all know, not the best sounding software. |
“Is there any result of blind testing of Sense vs Roon ? Love to hear it.” I don’t believe in blind tests. Fortunately, my system is resolving enough to collaborate differences between hardwares/ softwares and how well they are executed with my hearing. I am a lifetime ROON subscriber and longtime Conductor user. On surface, ROON is good and its SQ greatly varies on hardware implementation. In contrast, Conductor app remained consistent in terms of SQ due to its robust tightly controlled in-house integration with the equally complimentary hardware. Once you get to experience Sense glitch free, you will relate to what I’m trying to convey. Whether you can hear or appreciate the differences between ROON or Sense will entirely contingent upon your listening environment, system and your hearing. |
“I have found that the better the dac the MORE important the server/streamer and other network tweaks become. You need a great server/streamer to hear all your dac has to offer. Upgrades like ethernet filters, ethernet cables, and linear power supplies on your modem/router and switch become more important with a better dac. That’s if you want to hear all your new and more expensive dac can deliver.” |
“I don’t believe Roon is inherently inferior music player. I doubt Taiko would be using Roon in their Extreme streamers if they thought it had some inherent sonic liabilities.” I do not know the exact reason why Taiko didn’t offer XDMS from the onset but it is quite obvious that Taiko designers felt the need to come up with their own UI/App. First TAS and later XDMS rolled out. When a member asked Emile on WBF, Q. Are room correction convolution filters a possibility in XDMS? Emile response was, “Not currently, and it’s low priority as XDMS is all about Sound Quality”. As @grannyring pointed out, Innuos recognized the opportunity to further improve the sound quality and longevity of their enterprise by developing their own Sense App much to the tune of Aurender’s Conductor App. Again, the primary focus behind Sense App is SQ not some fancy interface or loads of features that don’t necessarily contribute towards optimized playback. Take this feedback as ROON not necessarily being inferior but a clear indication of superior integration, possible only through in-house development of proprietary software and hardware thus yielding to optimized playback performance and stellar customer support. |
“Whether Roon is optimized for the wide variety of streamers its used on is the question.” IME, Nope. Its sound quality is all over the place with different servers/renders. The whole concept of keeping render + core separate (chassis) is deeply flawed…too many variables in-between that are potentially impacting its final rendering. After 18 months of fiddling with ROON on two different servers, to my ears and in my system; ROON is not in the same league as Conductor in terms of absolute sound quality. Does ROON sounds fine, ofcourse it does. But you don’t dump $30-$40K in your digital front end to hear something that just sounds FINE. The overwhelming feedback from Taiko, Pink Faun and Innuos owners is proof enough…no further objective comparison undertaking necessary or needed, nuff said! |
Well said! I will go one step further…without network optimization, you’re not hearing full potential of your streamer or server. It is so vital to clean up the Ethernet signal from your modem or router before it enters your streamer/server. Even if your streamer/ server is galvanically isolated or use superior noise rejection circuitry, using some kind of noise filtering device is proven to be helpful in cleaning up the grunge. The degree of improvement from noise filtering devices may vary in each setup but they are generally effective. Please don’t go gadget crazy…IME, one or two high quality noise filtering devices are more than adequate, atleast that’s been true in my system. Everything matters, starting with network optimization, high quality LAN cables, streamer/server and DAC. One other thing that is not often mentioned here is Grounding - passive or active. Grounding your components appropriately can have very profound effects on overall sound of your system by way of lowering the noise floor. |
Among the few I’ve auditioned, my recommendation would be to try Network Acoustics ENO or MUON (for higher performance). The market is flooded with noise filtering devices but ENO and MUON passive filters does more than addressing the noise, they excel at enhancing your musical engagement. I used ENO first with Aurender N10, and later with N20; both of these streamers benefited from ENO + ENO Ag LAN cables. |
Smart thinking on holding off to Roon lifetime subscription. Is there a reason why you’re not using Sense App? I subscribed to Roon lifetime membership 2 years ago, barely used it due to inconsistencies with SQ. No issues with Conductor app managing my library. The playback is seamless streaming from my library or Qobuz/Tidal. If you wanna see how everything neatly curated, take a peak at my ‘Digital’ system - Pic 19 & 20. |
My cable modem is from Xifinity (formerly Comcast). Since my modem is about 30’ away from my dedicated room, I use a pair of Apple Extreme routers in a mesh network configuration to feed my Telegartner M12 Switch Gold. If you would like to see my network configuration, please visit my ’Digital’ system page and click on Picture # 22. You can avoid mesh network if you place your cable modem in the same room as your audio system. This would mean, running a short LAN cable from modem to your choice of streamer. I am going to be soon comparing another network switch in my system. It will be interesting to see how this switch compares to my existing switch. |
I know you are in information gathering phase and probably won’t pull the trigger on a streamer until your DAC arrives. While you await, I wanted to reiterate the importance of LAN cables. My experience with fiber optics kit was not great, as they tend to rob the dynamics and make the sound thin and lifeless; they do however effective in lowering the noise. That’s why I remained focused on lowering the noise by way of employing a high quality Ethernet switch / filter and use the best possible LAN cables. I have tinkered with wide variety of LAN cables over the years and found hybrid LAN cables with high purity silver and copper renders well balanced sound. Knowing your discerning taste in music and gear, I would start off with LAN cable that uses PC-OCC copper and silver, like Audio Sensibility Signature LAN. Reasonably priced under $300. I am thinking of ordering a pair as well for my upcoming experiment with SOtM switch and filters. There are other favorites like Network Acoustics, Sablon, JCAT and SOtM (for crazy money). Supra CAT 8 is a good starter cable but you will end up walking away this once you hear cables from aforementioned brands. |