I too was very pleased with the Bel Canto sound at RMAF. As Guido says, you can't reach any definitive conclusion in a show environment, but I can say that this was one of the better sounding systems at the 2008 RMAF, bar none. Music lovers searching for a neutral, dynamic and transparent amp should consider the new BCs.
Dave |
Guidocorona,
Thanks very much for your observation. You are correct, careful auditioning cannot be substituted. I'll look into this in due time.
Best regards,
Kenobi |
Thank you Everest, that was very interesting. . . for one thing, according to John Stronczer in the video, , the front ends of Ref500 and Ref1000 amps appear to convert AC to DC and store temporarily the energy in a bank of capacitors. Feeding the machine stabilized DC is also the general idea behind the JRDG approach using PFC modules. . . in fact, when listening to Ref 500s in Denver, I was struck by a finesse that reminded me of JRDG 312. . . Even at the time I was wondering if Bel Canto was perhaps preconverting AC to DC in R500s. |
If you want more information on what John Stronczer has done with the new amps, watch the following video. He starts off by explaining how the S500 is designed, then goes on to explain the REF500 and REF1000MkII monoblocks:
http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/1861-bel-canto-s-500-stereo-power-amplifier-top-audio-milan-2008 |
Guido - you are absolutely right! The entire system in Bel Canto room was pretty remarkable. I think new Bel Canto is something which deserve more attention then older ones
All The Best
Rafael |
Hi Dob, did you hear them at RMAF? The entire system in 589 was pretty remarkable. G. |
The new BC reference amplifiers are indeed spectacular. I wish I can put them against Jeff Rowland 312 and Spectron directly but price-vise - these are simply unbeatable !!!! |
Kenobi, I listened to the entire system and it is difficult for me to isolate any particular observation to the BC Ref 500 amps unless I auditioned them in my own system. Furthermore, there were no other amps in the same room against which to compare the Ref 500s. I also have no experience with the original Ref 500/1000. Yet, here are my subjective impressions roughly mapped to your itemized issues:
1) Midrange was solid/textured, and transparency was in evidence.
2) Speed -- I call this transient response. . . yes BC seemed quite nimble/agile on macro/micro transients.
3) Laid back? -- System was not 'agressive', I thought it sounded 'realistic' and eminently listenable without ever sounding dull/boring.
4) Smooth -- System did not sound etched in most recordings, but I was very pleased by the amount of harmonic texture that was exposed.
5) Resolution -- Seemed to be one of the most resolving systems at the show. But could not perform a direct comparison with other amps.
6) Soundstaging: broad, deep, and expansive, good 'air' around instruments.
Unles I have the opportunity to listen to BC Ref500 or Ref1000 at some length in a very familiar system/environment, I can't make meaningful comparisons with closely competing devices. . . Yet, it was pretty evident to me after 2 lengthy visits in the suite, even sitting way to the side and at a 90 degree angle to the speakers, that the new BC reference lineup are worth a very careful listen/consideration. G. |
Hi Guidocorona,
I have previously owned the BC Ref 1K before they were dethrone by the Nuforce alternative. Do you think the MKII version substancilly improved upon the original to warrant a reconsideration? My concern are as follows with the original Ref 1K:
1) Transparency-- wasn't there for both the high or low end though midrange is quite dense and solid
2) Speed was a factor as well and the BC was slow
3) Laid back, not exciting or live-sounding
4) Smooth--perhaps too much so that music sounded overly "rounded"
5) Resolution--lacking especially compared to Nuforce Ref 9SE V2 or MCH3SE
6) Soundstaging: narrow and not deep or expansive enough, lacking air big time.
Regards,
Kenobi |
Downunder, yes it would be interesting to learn how Bel Canto has achieved its sonic goals in the latest generation of amps while containing weight to under 20 pounds. We are starting to see a flurry of deceptively minimalistic devices which yield sophisticated sonic performances by applying unconventional technological solutions to traditional problems. . . and I suspect we may see more of these in the future. G. |
Thanks G. I have heard the REF1000 and it sounded quite good. However, when you opened the amplifier it looked EXACTLY the same as the ASP1000 modules.
Brands like Rowland, Cary have encorporated toridal transformers etc to make the module sound different.
Points 2 & 3 seem to be additional to the ICE modeule - not sure about the first point thou. |
Hi Downunder, In the Bel Canto room I was impressed by the sound I heard more than anything else. Bel Canto may have concentrated resources on engineering internals rather than on exterior metal work. I suspect the Ref1000 still utilizes the ASP1000 modules. But given the great sonic variability of amps employing this module across the industry, I suspect Bel Canto may have performed excellent work around it. I do not know details yet, but here is what I extracted from the BC press release on the subject:
" Fully-balanced input stage yields high common mode noise rejection and wide dynamic range. Optimizing internal impedances improves amplifier drive for even lower noise and distortion. Measurements reveal a full 6dB improvement in signal-to-noise ratio when driving the output amplifier section with low-impedance loads.
The input stage uses the latest top-quality parts including Caddock resistors, Solid Electrolytic ultra-low ESR decoupling capacitors, and low-noise regulated power supplies, ensuring the input section is utterly transparent.
The highest spec REF1000 MKII and the REF500 mono amplifiers are fitted with custom power supply rectification and filters that substantially increase the power supplys energy storage. Theyre manufactured with carefully selected high-speed, low-noise rectifiers, high-voltage film filter capacitors and high energy storage capacity. What this means for you is lower noise and reduced sensitivity to power line effects."
I'll post more detail if I learn any.
G. |
What does Bel Canto do to the ICE power modules other than put them in pretty cases?
What has bel canto done new for the version 2, or is there a new ICE power module out? |
Hello Hifipete,
If you want more power, The Spectron Musician III MKII mono-blocks will output 2400 Watts at 8 Ohms, 3200 Watts at 4 Ohms, 5600 Watts at 2 Ohms. Despite all this power, there is no sign of overdrive at all. Just pure, clean, well-controlled and refined sound.
With the Bel Cantos, you may also be able to use four Ref1000 amps as I've seen at shows.
Best,
iSanchez
|
I have just checkd with Bel Canto. . . according to them, there is NO REF2000 amp planned at any time. G.
|
Hi to all,
I've recently purchased a pair of Andras by Eggleston Works. These babies can really rock but are innefficient at 87Db and combined with 2 12'' woofers + 2 6'' midranges are demanding for an amplifier. I have a Krell FPB 300c with it's running mate the KCT preamp. While the Krell is no slouch I was curious in trying something with more ''oomph''. So I got my hands on a pair of Bel Canto Ref 1000 which put out 500W/ch in 8 ohms and doubles into 4 ohms. Very surprising (pleasantly) for such a small package. These guys pack as much punch as the Krell and maybe a bit more. It's not a big difference but I'm still awed at the sound coming out of this pair. I will definitely go in that direction in the future. But I would like more power. I got info from the distributor that Bel Canto will put out a Ref 2000 in 2009, which will be 1000w/ch in 8 ohms. Now that's interesting in my case. This technology is great. Compared to the Krell it's smaller, lighter, no heat (the Krell puts out mucho calor when you crank it) and not too demanding from your wall outlet. Very interesting indeed. |
From the Soundstage blurb linked above:
"The sound was finely detailed and rich with ambience, satisfying even those listeners seated to one side or the other."
Bang on I must say. . . I was one of those people sitting on one side, by the way.
G. |
The ref 500's sounded wonderful driving the Joseph Audio RM55 se's. |
This particular setup was considered a Soundstage! Standout Demo. For more details, visit the link:
http://www.soundstage2.com/avtour2008/rmaf_stand_tad.htm |
Good news for tube preamp owners is the input impedance of the new REF1000 Mk II amplifiers, 100kOhms per phase. |
Thanks for your input. It's the new 500 monos that have caught my attention are are in my price range. Do you recall how the rest of the system at RMAF was configured? Were the M500's being show with the Pre 3? Were they using the Bel Canto Dac or Phono stage? I hear a lot about Bel Canto amps and Dacs but less about their preamp and phono stage. |
Yes, Bel Canto Ref 500 monos in room 589 in the Marriott were driving a pair of $38K TED speakers and the result was. . . magnificent! Open, extended top to bottom, graceful, authoritative, nuanced. Bel Canto Ref 500 monos are worth listening too. . . do not be fooled by their basic/industrial look. . .. just remember that as they are class D amps and they run very cool they are likely to be real bears to break in. Guido |
I heard these amps in the Bel Canto room with the proto type TAD compact reference speakers and the sound was terrific. Some of the best at the show. |
