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Neutral or Detailed. You can't have both

At least not how I understand the audiophile terms. The problem comes in the mid-treble.

A truly, measurably, objectively neutral speakers doesn’t come alive until the volume is turned up, but will lack the perception of detail, because those details come from exaggerated and often rough treble responses.

B&W however has some of this reputation. They are not objectively neutral speakers.

The Magico S1 Mk II has an uptilt in the treble, but is glass smooth. It is probably what I consider the best example of this combined desire for a neutral but detailed speaker.

Monitor Audio’s top end speakers - Objectively neutral, superbly engineered. Often too laid back for most people, Audiophiles would not consider them "detailed."

As always, you should buy what you like. Maybe you don’t like neutral speakers. Goodness knows some reviewers don’t.
erik_squires

Showing 2 responses by prof

prof
3,450 posts
 
I can certainly see the point you are making erik, but like others I don't quite agree with your ultimate thesis here.

Certainly a goosed upper frequency region can make a speaker sound more detailed at lower playback levels.

But the move to "therefore a neutral speaker won't sound detailed at low playback levels" seems to be the stretch here.

If, for instance, I'm playing my acoustic guitar (or someone else is) extremely quietly, there is still a sense of effortless, open, high resolution, even to the sound of the fingertips on strings, that is not found in many speakers when played at a similar volume.  (I actually use a recording of my guitar sometimes to check out the realism of a system with a sound I know well).

So it still seems to me that a high fidelity speaker, if both neutral and high resolution, would retain both those characteristics, like real sounds, even when played at lower levels.
prof
3,450 posts
 
erik,

To be clear:  My argument was a sort of "in principle" argument.   My example was using real life sounds as the stand in for "neutrality."   An acoustic guitar played life is, in this sense, experiencing a "perfectly neutral" sound, in the sense no additional artificial distortions are being added by anything.   It's an ideal of what a truly "neutral" system could re-create, which suggests neutrality is not in opposition to experiencing fine detail at low sound levels.   So, in principle, "detailed sound" and "low levels" are not at odds.

I hope that is more clear.

(Though they *are* at odds in some psychoacoustical sense, insofar as our hearing apparently perceives more detail/higher end detail as sound gets louder.  But even granting this, I can still experience a finer sense of detail at low sound volumes from real life sounds, vs through most speakers).

As to real world examples, I'm not sure I would be able to come up with any that satisfy you.   I do remember the Waveform Mach Solo speakers retained a satisfying sense of detail at low volume levels, as do a pair of Waveform Mach MC (egg head unit) monitors I still own.

Some measurements for the Mach Solo here:

http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/waveform_mach_solo.html

My bigger Thiel 3.7s also seemed to retain fine detail at lower levels.

Monitor audio speakers I auditioned a while back, too.

I'm not sure if there are really very many speakers out there that everyone could agree on (even speaker designers/enthusiasts) as being "totally neutral."  It seems there is always some departure from neutral that can be found in measurements, that someone will point to.




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