At one time I was thinking that an Ethernet connection on a DAC was the future. I even started a thread a few years ago asking what others thought about this. However, today I hear the talk of noise on the Ethernet line and why that may not be something to hookup directly into a DAC and pollute the DAC with noise. So I see the reason why these audiophile network switches are showing up. Yet, is there not a different approach to this Ethernet noise issue? I have being following the Sonare SystemOptique discussions and it seems to me that using Ethernet OPTICAL from the network switch to the DAC maybe ideal (such as with the Lumin X1 DAC). The OPTICAL cable cannot carry electrical noise. The solution that would be more practical $$ wise and also with more DAC options would be the Sonare Signiture Rendu SE Optical. https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/sonore-opticalrendu-signature-rendu-se-optical-review-part-2-...With a Rendu it does not matter how noisy your computer is. Why spend so much time and money eliminating all that noise with custom audio servers (computers), audiophile network switches, expensive ethernet wire, etc.. when the OPTICAL wire kills all the electrical noise. The Optical Rendu uses USB for the "last mile" to the DAC. |
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https://www.sonore.us/systemoptique.htmlI just looked at the link above again and read about option 4 for Fiber Optical to an audio system. Currently, in my office, I use my electrically noisy (or busy) computer with a microRendu. I could skip buying the new optical capable network switch mentioned in my above post by doing the following: 4. Sonore opticalModule OEM/DIY - The opticalModule has an SFP fiber optic transceiver and can be installed directly into computer server. It makes sense that this would be an option if Fiber Optical cable eliminates all electrical noise. It would not matter if the computer is electrically noisy. BTW - my cheapo DELL audio computer is silent (but internally busy). |
@asvjerry I am a little slow so I am not sure I get the gist of your post. However, I will say that over the past 3+ years of using a mircoRendu while my computer did a few things such as, browser windows open to mostly static computer programming URLs (no video), maybe RDP into another computer, email, and not much else, I could not see a degradation in the sound of my audio system. My system seemed to be operating at a steady state of quality even with the computer having varying degrees of CPU/disk use. I attribute this nice steady state to the microRendu.
Now the OpticalRendu is promising to deliver what I did not even know I was missing by eliminating Ethernet noise from the equation. That noise currently flows into my microRendu via RJ45 Ethernet cable (not computer noise).
So this is supposed to give some improvement to the sound of a network connected system. The fact that the Rendu's are all ROON READY is an added bonus.
I am not an expert in the Optical networking but the audio benefit seems easy to understand if the premise of an Fiber Optical cable not being able to transmit electrical noise is to be believed. |
I should have used the terminology that @allane posted above to be clearer in my explanation. @grannyring You can use a RJ45 switch which also has optical fiber connection. Take a look at the following product. I will buy this one for $200 and replace my current RJ45 only switch with the RJ45 + Fiber Optical switch. https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-8-150w/The following url should give a good description of how to get fiber into you audio system. The product listed above fits as the "existing optical Ethernet" in the SystemOptique described below. https://www.sonore.us/systemoptique.htmlIf you have a Lumin X1 DAC (expensive) you can connect the Fiber optical cable directly from the Ubiquiti switch. I am not aware of any other DAC that have this fiber input. I think this could be the future for streaming DACs. The Sonare SystemOptique is used for USB DACs and what I will buy. Most likely the Signature Rendu SE Optical. I currently own the older Sonare microRendu and it has worked flawlessly for over 3 years. |
@ grannyring The best advice you can get on interfacing to the Sonare Optical module is by Sonare themselves. Jesus and Barrow, from Sonare participates on the Audiophilestyle.com Sonare Forum. The reason it would be smart to email them or Small Green Computer (reseller of Sonare gear) is that the compatibility of the SPF ports with the Sonare Optical module has not been tested extensively. This is new gear for them. The links I provided for Ubiquiti gear was shown to work on the review I linked to. I would guess that your gear, which is well known, has been tested with the Optical module. The great thing about this gear is that it is not too expensive, other than the top of line single box Signature Rendu SE Optical.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/forum/24-sonore-sponsored/
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It appears that some posters here don’t know the difference between obtaining optimal sound vs any sound. Perhaps, their systems aren’t resolving enough to demonstrate improvements. Unfortunately, these posters are polluting other member’s threads with distracting noise.
I am assuming this is directed at me. If so, I it would be cooler if @david_ten, the person, who started this thread, would say my posts are annoying. Anyways, the points I am making about Fiber Optical into an audio system are likely going to be the discussed in depth by others in the future. The first Network Switch listed by @david_ten has Fiber Optical built-in. Wouldn't it be interesting to understand why it exists and how it relates to an audio system?
Melco S100 (just announced) https://www.melco-audio-masters.com/uploads/1/0/1/5/101505220/mel_2073_s100_a4_2pp_info_sheet_v3.pdf
I certainly would be interested if @David_ten tried Fiber Optical into his Denafrips Terminator USB connection. I know he said he has optimized his USB connection. BTW - Here is another "Audiophile Network Switch" that showed up on my Facebook ad's.
https://stereo-magazine.com/article/audiophile-network-switch
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@grannyring Are you stating that you have already tried the fiber optical connection to your audio system?
@uberwaltz Awesome. |
I have been using Sonare products since the first day the microRendu became available. After I used the
Rendus' I became confident that, FOR ME, the Rendu isolated the computer processing from the audio signal. What I mean is that a busy CPU did not correlate with a degraded audio, FOR ME. Unlike a direct USB connection from the CPU to the DAC. I listen 8 hours a day M-F for years with the Rendu. The Rendu's are awesome products. BTW - I said FOR ME.
I have not bought the Optical yet because I am waiting for any bugs to work themselves out. Only issue for me now is that the next DAC (demo of speakers upcoming) I get may already have an RJ45 Ethernet streaming built-in (noisy) so I may live with that until I get more funds. |
@thyname Given your history with the Sonore products what is your opinion on the Sonore products and their place in this thread's discussion about Network Switches. My experience will have me continue to stay with the Rendu. |
For the few people who have an endpoint with optical input (the excellent Sonore opticalRendu comes to mind), one can “turn around” the EtherREGEN and feed that DAC-connected endpoint from the optical cage, while connecting the lone ‘B’-side port to the network. Thus ‘B’ >’A’.
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen
Do not understand that point above from EtherGEGEN. |
This EtherRegen device seems like it would be better than 2 Sonore opticalModules to go from Ethernet RJ45 -> OM -> Fiber Optical Ethernet -> OM -> Ethernet RJ45. Simpler seems better to me but I have not heard either.
The Sonore modules that output USB is what I have heard and own and they seem simpler in the audio data flow.
That EtherRegen does seem like something interesting if you have an RJ45 input in your DAC with a built-in Roon Ready Media Server in the DAC, such as a Lyngdorf 3400 integrated. If you used the Sonore USB based output products on this Integrated you would be wasting money by not using the built-in RJ45 streaming of the DAC.
@grannyring Don’t you have the Lyngdorf 3400? I am demoing this with an external amp (SimAudio 860 or Luxman m900u) and the new to USA Yamaha NS 5000 ASAP.
Great info, thanks. |
@thyname When I originally read about the EtherREGEN it was 3AM. Now that I had my 2 hours of sleep I looked at this again with full mental agility. :)
It seems the question I need answering is what goes into the streaming endpoint in the EtherREGEN + OpticalRendu flow, is it USB or RJ45? |
I can help you understand, although it’s self explanatory.
ultraRendu has optical input. So you need a fiber cable to feed it. So you ‘turn around” the EtherRegen.
I am not the sharpest tool in the toolbox so I still do not get it. I think you may have wanted to say opticalRendu instead of ultraRendu, Sonore states as "Cable Ethernet Input to USB-Audio Output". Whatever, the case, I will figure it out and I will buy this EtherREGEN since it is an obvious business expense for my office network. Thanks for your effort in explaining.
Don't worry about further explanations I will give a call EtherREGEN and figure it out over email or phone. |
@thyname Ok, USB to the endpoint makes it super clear. I got confused thinking RJ45 to the endpoint was the goal. I understand there are some clocking things (beyond my pay scale of understanding) that the EtherREGEN does but I wonder how it compares with the following for USB end point streaming. So taking the EtherREGEN + OpticalRendu scenario you described and comparing with the following:
https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-8-150w/
(or EtherREGEN) (Fiber Optical Output for either one) + Sonore Signiture Rendu SE Optical -> USB DAC input Or to go a little crazy and compare with (non-USB end point)
https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-8-150w/ (or EtherREGEN)
(Fiber Optical Output for either one)
+ Lumin X1 using Fiber Optical DAC input In the future, I see a lot more DACs with a Fiber optical input. Just 3 years ago I was wondering if RJ45 DAC input was the future over USB. |
