Network Switches

@jc51373 I've heard of this as well, Antipodes S60 power supply addresses this issue.

https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-s60/

I just came across this thread, interesting, but sort of old, perhaps it can revived. I've been thinking about adding network switch for some time now, already have post server taken care of with FMCs and usb decrapifiers. Up to now, I've fed server and NAS with router powered by lps. Finally decide to pull the plug on purchasing audiophile network switch yesterday. During my research over the past few weeks I narrowed down choices to English8, N&E Silent Switch (aka as Ediscreation) standard and deluxe versions, Uptone Etheregen and RenoLabs Ultimate. I took a chance and purchased RenoLabs Ultimate, the risk because I've not found a single review.  Should get 7-10 days.
Also, I found a review by thyname of the N&E switch over at whatsbest forum, assume this is the very same thyname in this thread. David_Ten, may be worthwhile to pm him for review either on this thread or start a new one. He found it superior to Uptone etheregen.

Listened to my recently purchased RenoLabs Ultimate switch first time. Right off heard increase in resolution, lower noise floor thing. Initially, most noticeable were sound stage or,  imaging improvements, a little more 'pop'  or separation of individual performers, a more spacious sound stage in macro sense. Detail improvements per se, therefore low level information always heard as sound stage and imaging improvements the past few years. The usual low level information improvements such as hearing some instrument or voice have long been exposed in my system.
And now I come to the  not so sure part of initial listening session. For first few hours darker sounding system than previous, a bit less transparency, closed in sound. Over the next couple hours this improved somewhat, still a bit more colored, or less natural than pre switch.

At this point I'm going to put this down to settling and/or burn in issues, what I hear with every component burn in. Different configuration of previous equipment and the added new Audioquest Vodka ethernet cable, along with switch require settling and/or burn in. Based on improvement I heard over first listening session I'm expecting these minor issues will resolve. I also recall and have listening notes that confirm prior network equipment upgrades had burn in period. Prior to first network and USB upgrades I didn't expect burn in issues, this only reinforces the error of that mistaken assumption.

I also heard this improvement despite a previously nearly fully optimized ethernet chain. Previous: Router (LPS)>server and NAS (both LPS)>optical conversion-two TPLink FMC (both LPS)>Sotm SMS200neo (Uptone JS2 LPS)>Uptone USB Regen(LPS)>dac. Post: Router>RenoLabs switch>server and NAS, everything after same as before.

I've heard that prior to using LPS and power conditioner on every single network piece. I'm also thinking perhaps the signature thing was less noticeable in past since streaming solution not as mature, advanced as now. Past upgrades improved noise floor, resolution to such an extent, all my attention went there, not so much on sound signature.
This haze or less natural sound is a subtle thing, but still exposed on present extremely high resolution system. I know theoretically, network equipment shouldn't change sound signature, yet most of us have experienced theoreticals being broken.
I do know a lot of these audiophile switches use generic switch circuit boards with upgrades parts and LPS added. Perhaps I'm hearing generic board liabilities. In any case, it will take a few more listening sessions to get to the bottom of this.
I already know about placebo effect, expectation bias,  and how to adjust, this not the deal here.

Recently added network switch, has imposed sound signature. I received expected benefit of lower noise floor, more detail, resolution, transparency, didn't expect so much or any impact on the quality of sound. Just a bit less natural sound than prior, like a layer of electronic scrim added, quieter, yes, but like a haze added. I've improved other network equipment and cables in past, don't recall this much impact on sound signature.
So, in your experience, have network upgrades affected sound signature? I'm burning in network switch, new ethernet cable as we speak, eliminate this as culprit. I'm also going to try various power cables.

RenoLabs Ultimate Switch, built in LPS, OXCO clock.

If I continue to hear deficiency of new switch, along with it's improvements, the question becomes. What would a much more expensive switch like the Innuos bring to the party? Is lower noise floor sole improvement, or are you paying that extra money for something more, meaning more natural sound vs. lower cost switches. Assuming Innuos is superior in any parameter?

Well, at present I have switch playing 24/7, and I'll try one of my power cords that fit sound signature I'm looking for. Burn in and pc issues will be moot at that point. $3500 for Innuos a little steep for me. Uptone switch would be next try, the only reason didn't purchase is only one highest quality output, I need two, one for server, other for NAS.

RenoLabs switch has amazing build quality, would fit $3k plus category. It may also be the switch is exposing something else in streaming setup. I'm presently using SOTM SMS200Neo in series with Uptone USB regen, perhaps using two usb decrapifiers is excessive, may try removing Uptone. Both on LPS, Sotm on Uptone JS2

Lalitk, I've researched your Telegartner switch in past, certainly impressed with technology. I'd expect lowered noise floor, so improved detail, transparency, etc. Based on reviews the only sound signature from the unit is 'natural'. I've seen many reviews of other switches also claiming more natural sound from systems. And so, in your experience, did the Telegartner deliver more natural sound quality than lesser switches you tried? And is that due to a more natural sound signature of switch itself, or simply because it exposed more of the natural sound signature of your entire system? In other words, are there variable levels of naturalness delivered by switches? An affirmative answer means there is in fact a sound signature or flavor delivered by switches.

@david_ten  Cable modem supplied by cable company placement near audio system> Audioquest Vodka ethernet> Netgear Nighthawk router powered by 12v 4a lps plugged into BPT 3.5 sig (modded) via DIY Helix with three strands VH Audio Airlock hot cable power cord>Synology NAS powered by over spec lps and Shunyata Python VX into BPT, and extremely modded Mac Mini (Intel I7 best processor available at time, Uptone MMK, JS-2 L{S, only most necessary services operational, went into DOS commands to shut down others many don't shut down) JS2 powered by VH Audio Airsine PC>(2) TPLInk MC200CM both over spec lps with Shunyata Cobra PC powered by lithium ion battery pack>SOTM SMS 200 neo powered by Uptone JS2>Audioquest Diamond USB>Uptone USB regen over spec lps,VH Audio Airsine pc>Musetec 005 DAC (usb Amenero w/OXCO clock) DIY Helix PC into BPT.
I should mention all ethernet Audioquest Vodka, everything with exception of TPLinks going into BPT on dedicated AC, have two other dedicated AC lines for analog and amps. My house ground has also been taken care of, new grounding rod with equal length grounds cables so no ground loops. I also have separate ground cables coming from each of my three dedicated AC lines.

I"m being extremely thorough here in attempt to illustrate the importance I've placed on every single aspect of network. Paying attention to DC and AC power sources is of utmost importance IME.

Speaking of no absolutes, I'm done for time being with adding network switch. In the end, Renolab switch result in diminished sound quality. Without switch, images and sound stage wonderfully dimensional and life sized. With added switch, while there was a minute increase in lowest level information, image outlines were drawn too precisely, still three dimensional but with cookie cutter edges, not lifelike at all. My preference and experience is that images naturally blend into one another to some extent in both artificial and natural sound stages. With the switch it was if each performer in individual sound booth, way too precise and unnatural.

At this point I'm making assumption the added clocking of switch was creating anomalies. My network is already optimized post server and NAS, sufficient clocking for my sound preferences. And so back to absolutes; perhaps adding switches is not beneficial in all network setups. At the same time, I'm not making argument another switch could be beneficial for me.

Its been my experience network improvements up to now have been in region of lowering noise floor of system, some added lower level information in the sense of more clearly heard instrumentation or voices mixed at relatively lowest levels. But mostly I've heard sound stage and image improvements, another byproduct of lower noise floor. At this point I'm content with sound stage and imaging from my system, adding that last minutia of lowest level info isn't worth the cost.

I'm curious if those with good experiences with switches are using LPS on router?  I don't want to speak for Rich, but we've been discussing networks on another forum, both Rich and rep. from IFI Audio state LPS on router competes favorably with audiophile switches at English Electric price level.

@glory Ok, don't like a very nicely reviewed Antipodes, so maybe you need to move into Wadax and Taiko Extreme territory. Otherwise issue is your dac, or something in rest of system.