My last comment should read:
"Now I do really like the speakers but maybe I should get rid of them. I know many people will tell me to do just that -"
Also the "flat" comment was in response to the Adcom
Curse you iPad and your auto correct!!! |
Thanks for the response. To be clear I did have a modified Acurus LS11 but it didn't do me any favors. The highs and lows sounded about the same - meaning a bit bright. Right now the only thing I have to go on is that when I added the VTL preamp the highs sounded a bit rolled off compared to the Acurus. And when I swapped out the amp with the adcom amp the highs sounded good too (NAD directly to amp). The NAD unit is designed to act as a preamp so I'm not sure what I should look at to verify if it's matched correctly. I do know there doesn't seem to be any problems driving the amps. It does sound better alone than with the Acurus attached as a preamp. So I guess that's why I'm looking into a better amp. Of all my gear it seems to be the weak link and the one constant, meaning if the treble is bright the Vincent is always part of the occasion.
Weather preamp or amp I need something that will provide a warm sound without being bright. On my budget that seems to be SS amp or a tube preamp. Though i dont disagree with your comments on tube vs SS I generalize when I say that the characteristics I'm looking for and from what I've been reding is found in tube equipment or SS that sounds like tube.
Ive done some research but I'm just not that familiar with what gear would be the right fit based on keeping the Thiels. |
I think what I am going to try to do is audition (buy with option to send back) the Channel Island D200 MKII's. From all the reviews I've been reading they have a very "tube" sound with a warm midrange and smooth highs without any harshness or grain. They are rated at 200w into 8 and 375w into 4.
Worst case scenario is I'll have to pay for restocking, but I've heard nothing but good things about these amps. I will try my preamp again with all the different amp combinations. Just last night I hooked up my old CJ MF2100 and while it didn't have any real power to drive the speakers the highs weren't bad on that amp directly hooked up the NAD. So while I don't disagree with there being an issue the NAD directly connected to the amp, the brightness only rears its head with the Vincent amp. Hey, if Im wrong I'll be the first to admit it and have the restocking charge to prove it. |
I actually own an old MF2100, but its not powerful enough for the Thiels. However if I remember the MF series is a MOSFET powered amp, thus a D class amp. Someone correct me if I am wrong on that. A lot of people snub their noses at D class, but when I used my CJ on my old Vandersteen 2CE's they sounded good to me. And now im going to try these Channel Island d200 MKii Monoblocks, they are D class too. Let's hope they are suppose to have a warmer sound, which I hope will mate well to the Thiels. They also have a >1000 dampening factory that should be good for the hard to drive bass. |
Ok, I remember seeing this:
http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/a-mf2100.html
that is why I thought it was class D, I thought all MOSFET was class d. My mistake. |
Mezmo,
I hope your right. I keep hearing about no "emotion" in class d amps, but every professional review, save one, and almost all people who personally own the Channels really seem to like them. I never 100% trust professional critics - just cant really tell where their true intentions lie with advertisers and all. Most of the reviews of the Channels are of the older D200's not the newer D200 MKii which evidently improves the whole product top to bottom. If it turns out there is no "emotion" to these amps that may not bode well for the Thiels since they can sound analytical. Add to that the fact that I will want to drive them directly with my NAD DAC it could spell disaster - though the NAD sounds very, VERY nice. But I'll have a coulple of preamps to throw on them just to see. I could buy a used ARC preamp or CJ preamp just to see if the tubes "add" anything, but one step at a time. haha |
My Channel Islands come tonite. So in a few days to a week I'll give an update. If I'm lucky all goes well and the warm sound and good bass control will mate well with the hard to drive, bright Thiels. Not sure how long it will take to break in these amps enough to get a feel for the sound and dynamics, but it better be sooner than the 30 day trial period! |
Ok. Hooked up. First impressions - so far promising for being completely green out the box. No glaring flaws. Highs are a bit softer, not so edgy. Simon and garfunkle live seems more "live". |
Ok, bass is more resolved and has more heft and punch with better body. Dave Brubeck's "take five" drum solo towards the end of the songs is real nice! |
Ive lived with the ciaudio d200 mkii's for about 2 weeks now and probably have about 100+ hours on the units. I've been running them in balanced configuration. So far these amps seem pretty good. Great bass control and plenty of power to drive the Thiels. The sound is very open and full with good imaging. He highs are good with a slight emphasis on acoustical guitar plucking and cymbols with voices being slightly recessed, but not on all albums which leaves me to believe its more the recording than the amps. Not sure yet. In all the amps seem quite neutral. |
Well, I only have a couple hours of listening time on the amps right ouf the box. But the bass is better. What im ultimately interested in when it comes to how "D" amps work is if there is a loss of information like some say when comparing Vinyl and CD players. The Class D amps work a the principle of an on/off nature similar to how cd players work with 0's and 1's. My understanding is that class D amps use PWM (I think I have the acronym right) thus it would seem their sound is "interpreted" if you will just like CD's have to "interpret" between the bits. Is my thinking right on this or am I off base? Im I losing audio information in a digital amp? My understanding of the CI D200's is that the switching is analog, but the on/off concept still remains.
Also, Im driving the amps right from the NAD DAC and its working great, the highs are really nice and not bright at all so far. |
Well Im glad my ignorance has amused you today!
I certainly don't claim to be an expert at audio design or technology, which you obviously know more about than I do. Thank you for your post, it was very informative. I'll make sure that in my future attempts to gain more knowlege on the subject that my lameness does not attempt rear its ugly head if at all possible ;) |
No offense taken. I try to read up on a subject before I ask a question, but my understanding of electrical design is limited to construction and architecture and reading about electrical component design gets me quite lost in tryin to truly understand it sometimes. Home electronics fascinates me, though my understanding is quite superficial. It's good to hear from people who do understand it and can explain it to common folk like me. |
Ok. Might be sending the ciaudio's back. There are some really good things to like about them but something isn't quite geling here with the Thiels. Maybe I should just sell the damn Thiels! I dunno getting real disappointed trying to make these speakers work. Anyway I'm going to be auditioning the Parasound Halo 21 in hopes to find some synergy. Not sure if it will be there. It seems the speakers need the bass and mid bass to open up to balance out the highs. The D200's went a long way in doing this but carried an edge to the highs I found a bit tiring. I did look at McCormacks like some of you suggested, from Spearitsound.com but I don't think they have a 30 day return policy.
Anybody have any thoughts on the Parasound, I'm not sure it's going to do me any favors in the highs either, or at least bring out the low, but it gets relally good reviews. |
Yeah I'm hoping your right. I'm probably approaching 250. I've got about 100 hours of decent loudness playing through them and another 125+ just letting them play at night, though not very loud. So I've got a bit to go
Not doubting your word on them loosening up, but do you think some of that loosening up was you just getting use to them? |
Yeah my problem is they are in the living room and can't really do the "face each other" idea |
I don't doubt that I might be trying to push a rope, and what I require is a powerful amp that can provide the current needed, but I also one that will synergies well and not emphasize the the forward nature of these speakers. Other than. Buying Krell what would you suggest would work in the $3k to $4k realm? |
|
Ok let's start over . . .
Got the Parasound Halo A21 up and running. Not exactly sure what the burn in time will be, but stay tuned! out if the box it's very promising, but I've been down that road before as well. |
Well this a21 sure is a sweet thing! I haven't heard umpteen thousand dollar amps on my system to compare, so maybe ignorance is bliss but by my ears it doesn't take any wrong steps that I can hear. At least no major blunders. I've recently switched out my power cords of my power conditioner and the A21 to Pangea AC9se's and that gave the sound more body and more defined sound stage.
I am really starting to like the sound I'm hearing!! |
I listen to all sorts really, but if I had to try and narrow it down, I like Miles Davis (who doesn't right?), Pink Floyd, Harry Connick Jr., Norah Jones, Classical, Johnny Cash, Queen, Led Zepplin . . . well all sorts. I've just recently added a REL R-328 subwoofer that has really filled out the bottom end nicely and added a certain "body" to the music that is very, very nice as well. |
