My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

Those that continue to battle will just get a bigger and bigger head (ego)......no satisfaction. Those that love get a bigger heart.....and more satisfaction. When you point a finger at someone to make them wrong.......three are pointing back at you.......it is all projection. When you FULLY love yourself.....you FULLY love everyone......that is REAL self esteem.

Every single thought, word spoken, feeling felt and action taken......is a REALITY......and that reality keeps creating itself.......so the quality of your thoughts, words spoken, feelings felt and actions taken determines your moment to moment reality (and everyone else’s reality....since we are all connected). What is your dream reality? How do you really want to live?.......then choose the words, etc. that fit that reality. You cannot create love with judgement......only love creates love. Only joy creates joy. Only peace creates peace. Only beauty creates beauty.....etc. etc. You choose. You have free will. What do you want? What does your soul want? How can you get it?

theaudioamp,

Whatever technical flaws there are in the 2 recordings, somehow several people here easily heard the differences.  The California Dreaming recording I found problematic, and led me to prefer the inferior S1000 on that song.  But the better recording I referred to was a no-brainer for the superiority of the S2500.  You spend more time criticizing the technical flaws of the YT recordings than listening.  You could correct the volume and channel imbalances yourself, maybe not perfectly, and still hear the differences.  Everyone here who listened easily heard the same superiorities of the S2500, except you.

I have compared fine violins alongside international professionals at auctions. Even though there are differences in the setup (different angle of bridge, neck, soundpost adjustments, types of strings), there are the much vaster intrinsic differences in the tone and response of all these violins.  Any good player can hear this, just as any good audiophile can judge the sound differences despite all the variables.  But you are too busy making technical excuses to hear what everyone else heard here.

Jay, I wanted to ask if you will be posting a link to your new website when it is ready either here or privately.

I know I haven't participated in a long time I actually lived in Florida a couple years ago and got a job offer here in NM. I still read the thread I just haven't found the time to be active in it honestly I don't know how you do it, fit it into your life with everything you have going on which is much more than I do. 

Any way since I came across your thread a couple of years ago the information I have gotten has been invaluable. You have covered probably all important aspects of what I needed to know from amps to speakers, speaker and power cables and more.

As for the rest... I read, its interesting but I don't get involved it is way above my level of knowledge. I do think that people need to look at how they are starting a conversation or responding. We are reading words on a computer from someone we cannot see, can't hear their voice, have nothing to use to interpret the meaning they are actually trying to convey. Happens to me at work, I comment or respond to email or chat and then realize, yeah that could have been taken the wrong way.

Or maybe their just trying to poke the bear, who knows.

Anyways thanks, appreciate what I have learned here and hope to see the new website.

@rbach 

LMFAO 🤣!!!!!!!!

That was one funny comment. Man i almost fell out of my chair !

Dear Mr. Amp,
When you're finished making short order of the doc, can you go after....errrr....I mean address the DIY'r on this thread?  Thanks in advance.

@viber6 

1. There is a fixed gain difference between the S1000 and S2500. Unless you used the exact correct gain compensation of 1db, your comparison is flawed.
2. As previous noted, there is gain pumping, easiest seen on the noise floor, but confirmed to be cyclic at about 6 seconds cycle. I can detect that when doing an S1000 vs. S2500 comparison.
3. The S1000 version is clipping. Whether at recording or Youtube I don't know, I just know it is clipping.
4. There is a flaw in the S2500 version, one channel is off, likely due the position of a human in the room. This results in an identifiable change in the response of the S2500 and easly seen change in the frequency response on that channel.
5. You are listening to a recording with a non-torso setup, played over Youtube at 192kbps AAC, with all the flaws, listening to it on your system, where you have admitted playing with the volume.
6. Both recordings have unnatural amounts of reverb/echo at mid-high frequencies.

Any one of these things renders any critical evaluation of the performance or any aspects of the performance null and void, but to think that YOU, you of all people, can somehow negate all 6 significant issues to reveal a characteristic, that any 250K audio chain should and likely is completely immune to.

There is a word for someone who believe that about themselves. It is not competence.

I did critical listening and quickly picked up the noise pumping, suspected the level difference, noted the excessive echo, and suspected a softening but could not place my finger on it. Critical analysis confirmed some of my expectations, put hard facts around others, and revealed something I did not expect but know will impact any critical listening.

Your last 2 posts are totally incorrect.  Read all my posts re: my listening evaluations of the S1000 and S2500.  I found mismatched volume levels at some times and not others.  This confused my early assessments.  I did experiment with various volume settings.  After all was said and done, I heard the essential differences I described.  

You did not do serious listening to each passage.  You cannot hear what I and others described, including Jay.  Even at slightly different volume levels, there are essential differences in the character of sound from the S1000 vs S2500 that you cannot hear.  More excuses and word salad on your part.

The final indictment of you comes when you incorrectly said I am not an MD.  A few friends from this thread who personally know me could confirm your error.  You have limited reading comprehension and draw incorrect conclusions. That makes any intellectual statement from you suspect.

Oh, and @viber6 , in addition to the 1 db level change implemented by Youtube, the uploaded S1000 video is entering clipping, at least on Youtube audio. Looking at the L/R waveforms for both, it looks like someone is standing in a position on the S2500 where one channel is slightly affected in the recording. There is some attenuation of the high frequencies on one channel in the S2500 recording.

So you see @viber6, there is a big difference between listening in an ah-hoc method and calling your methods and results expertise, and having some level of expertise, not to mention useful objective listening and flawed adhoc reporting.

FYI, @cleeds 

Wow sounds like Timothy Leary stuff. ☮️ 🤔. Nice to see psych is also involved here as well. This thread has it all doesn’t it.  Even some audio at times 🎶🎶

The ego works by defining and defending.   When you stop swinging your sword then all there is.......is peace.....and truth.....and beauty.....I wish you all much peace today........

The mind is a "make wrong" machine........live in your heart.....the heart makes everything.....I mean...everything and everyone "Right"..........

Love is all there is.

The ego is an illusion......something to mis-identify with so we can have some weird dramas......When you realize the miracle of each moment.....the infinity of love and joy that exists in every second then the play/glory of the ego starts to lose its grip on you.........love lets you soar.....to heights unimaginable by the ego.......the ego is not real.....it is not real......you are real......the real you.....the inner you....the unchanging beautiful self that we all are........is the only thing that is REAL.

Got it. Not an actual M.D.   You know you stepped over a legal line when you said Integrative medical doctor. You are not a medical doctor. That is misrepresentation and the licensing bodies for medical doctors don't take kindly to that.

Oh, the S1000 video was content normalized to a level 1db lower than the S2500 video. Youtube did that automatically. If the songs were recorded at the same volume, the higher volume on the S2500 will make it sound "bigger". Even 1db is enough to do that when you compare .... but you knew that, technical expert and all.

Listening only compliments objective tests when the listening is also objective. I will leave it up to you to figure out what that means. Technical people only distrust flawed listening reports ..... you didn't know the 2 videos are at a different volume level by the way .... I did. You know, the technical guy. That rendered your listening report invalid.

theaudioamp,

Look on page 402 of this thread. The 1st video on 7/30 at 12:50 PM is the S1000. Listen at 0:00. The 2nd video on the same page on 7/31 at 3:15 PM is the S2500. Listen to the same song at 3:00. I find it helpful to listen for short periods to the same material. The instrumental introduction goes on for 40 sec. Then the voice comes in. So go back and forth for the 40 sec instrumental, then with the voice for about 20 seconds back and forth. See if you can hear the ambient space on the instrumentals, how it is much larger on the S2500. Listen to the increased detail and resolution of the instruments on the S2500. Perception of increased space is a measure of low level detail.

If you honestly don’t hear ANY differences after several attempts, you cannot be blamed for having a hearing problem, so you should go to any audiologist or ENT specialist. Maybe it is as simple as getting ear wax cleaned out. If you do hear differences, but judge them to be very small, that is a value judgment which is fine, but at least you will have learned something and admitted to yourself that you are incorrect to claim that there are NO audible differences.

However, it is more likely that your technical emphasis serves as a bias that you emotionally block out any perceptions that refute your claims that there are no significant differences. I have observed this phenomenon of denial of truths if they conflict with entrenched belief systems and agendas, as with politicians who consistently lie. In medicine, I have met professors of medicine who make incorrect clinical assessments of patients based on objective data. For example, a patient may have abdominal and brain symptoms that are actually due to gluten sensitivities. The GI MD does endoscopic biopsies looking for gluten damage. The biopsies are normal, and the MD tells the patient it is OK to continue to eat gluten foods like bread, pasta. But I have helped many such patients by asking them to do a 1 month trial of avoidance of these foods. If I am wrong, the trial makes no difference and another diagnosis must be sought. There are comprehensive celiac antibody panels to do, but they may be normal and don’t tell the story as well as a clinical trial of gluten avoidance.

Another example is assessment of fatigue due to testosterone and other hormone deficiencies. It is easy to do blood tests for hormones, which don’t always correlate with symptoms. But hormone receptor sensitivity is not able to be objectively tested, so a clinical assessment is required. Analysis of symptoms PLUS objective lab measurements used together make a better assessment.

Clinical assessment, as applied to audio, means LISTENING. No better way. Listening integrates the subjective skills with objective measurements to obtain the truth of how an electronic component behaves in an audio system in a particular room.

Without careful listening, any of your supposed expert technical pronouncements are in themselves WORD SALAD, or irrelevant to what most people are here for. We are mostly not interested in professional AES papers and studies. If some author attempts to integrate objective data with what he hears, that is of interest. Many technical people distrust listening assessments, so they exclusively use technical criteria. Their standing with colleagues is based on technical competence. But it is useful to ask an intelligent child to listen. He/she doesn’t have enough technical background, but they have the best hearing to make a proper assessment.

Jay is an excellent audio clinician. He is not a technical expert, but his extensive listening experience is why his thread is most sought for guidance.

@theaudioamp we’ll I think all you need is an iPhone or iPad with headset. Surely you can hear differences in things he’s done in the past, I know I can. Now granted it not even close to like being there but there are differences. Which is better is always questionable and debatable and things like imaging,  instrument placement and such is not too good but things like detail, warmth, dynamics are noticeable  and  differences can be heard don’t you think? Maybe it’s possible you Dac is part of the problem. Try without and see.

@carey1110 would a few thousand dollar DAC and equalized quality headphones be acceptable? That is what I did. Sorry, but there is nothing that can be gleamed in those videos that can be attributed to the AC source (or really anything for that matter). Just someone changing their position in the room will have more effect and I don't perceive a lot of controls in these videos. In some there is someone walking right in front of the speaker (which curiously does not change the recording at all).

@theaudioamp Well one thing is for sure this conversation sure is entertaining. I busted out laughing when I read the cancer diagnosis from the picture of the cousin. Thanks for that, 😂 However you can tell the difference somewhat if you use headphones or even ear phones. You should try it and see it will surprise you. 

@viber6   "Integrative Doctor". If I am not mistaken, that does not mean you are an MD, but an alternate medicine doctor, perhaps Naturopath?  

@viber6 ,

Respond to your technical insights? Those were not technical insights, they were word salad tossed with sine wave dressing. It spoke nothing to the suitability of a pure sine wave (in this case low impedance) as an AC source for audio equipment. You seem to know just enough to think you know a lot more than you really do.  IMHO, posting what you did was an insult to all the audiophiles who are reading this thread.

You are listening to a Youtube video, of someone else's system, playing back on your system ... and you claim you are hearing subtle changes caused by an AC source connected to what looks like close to a 1/4 Mill of electronics, and, from what I can tell, you are not even using the same song for comparison.  If I had that level of creativity I would be writing books, not in medicine.

Voltage changes can only induce noise in that they can induce currents. It is ultimately changes in current that one wishes to reduce to reduce noise. Every audio power supply has in the power path a diode (or equivalent) to rectify the incoming AC. The current only conducts for a short period of the sine wave, so the actual currents end up being harmonics of the line frequency as well as high frequency ringing due to component parasitics and inductance in the AC line and transformer.  For the line frequency harmonics, the shorter the conduction angle for a give power draw, the higher the level of the harmonics. It is not unusual for tube amplifiers to have line noise harmonics show up in the output.

PS Audio's power plants have the option to output a modified sine wave (not pure), that has the benefit of extending the conduction angle with typical audio equipment power supplies. That will reduce the harmonics on the DC side of the supply, which can translate into reduces line harmonics reaching the output, and will generally allow components in the end equipment power supply to run cooler.  It is absolutely NOT to color the sound. It is to remove color from the sound.  Stromtank is not the premier manufacturer. You are Jay are claiming that. Show me some measurements that prove that. They don't have a modified sine wave, and their THD is about 10 times higher than the PS Audio units. You also have absolutely no idea what the output noise spectrum is of these units. @ricevs and his friend are convinced his Giandel inverters are better. Enjoy the Music proclaimed that the low cost Yeti 400, for powering front end equipment, was every bit as good as the Stromtank (and a small fraction of the price).

Your personal evidence?  A recording, made of someone else's stereo, played back on your stereo, with that recording being done in 192kbps AAC at best. That is like diagnosing someone's cancer by looking at a picture of his cousin taken with a Kodak Brownie. Comparing to the playing the songs directly, there is high levels of noise pumping (AGC on the recording?), some added distortion, and as noted, fairly high levels of reverb at upper mid/high frequencies. If you think you are picking up what are likely to be differences not revealable by measurements in that total signal chain I am not sure what the point of this discussion is.

p.s. Jay appears to have 5 or so Stromtank videos. None that I viewed had the exact same song at the 0:00 mark and 3:00 mark. If they exist, feel free to repost links.

theaudioamp,

What you don't know is that I am a top class amateur violinist well respected by some esteemed professionals.  I had a good grounding in math and physics before I decided to become an integrative medical doctor.  I have expertise in listening as well as some technical aspects.  You have shown no ability to listen critically to sound as well as respond to my technical insights.  The 2 videos are there at the timings I indicated.  Even though the recordings are still processed, they are good enough to easily demonstrate the sonic differences.  BTW, Paul McGowan included  modified sine waves as alternative options for those people who wanted to color their sound.  But why does the premier manufacturer, Stromtank generate pure sine waves?   

Clear out the insults, and just answer my question about why you think pure sine waves are irrelevant.  When my uneducated patients ask me basic questions, I know how to simplify the technical language and explain the concepts to them, something they are entitled to, out of respect.

@ricevs after I didn’t see it on the first 3 or 4 I looked at including the one you were referencing(2200) I stopped looking for FCC. Given the lack of proper marking even when stated it makes me suspect though I expect they had a specific customer with a requirement for the 5K model.

Are you Jay or someone writing for Jay? Now I am confused.

Jay isn’t the type to lay down and take a beating by the internet trolls that come in and out of this thread. Jay is a dealer for 3 lines and these lines don’t put Ferrari keys in my hands.

I see what you mean @cleeds .

I didn't go looking for YouTube videos. A member here, on a discussion forum, encouraged me to listen to them. I found his conclusion flawed. I wrote about those flaws.  That is what you do in a discussion forum. You discuss.

I have no responsibility to search out other YouTube videos or interest to do so. Due to the commercial nature I feel the op does have a responsibility to comment on why the sound did not change at all when someone walked right in front of a speaker during recording .

Jay isn’t the type to lay down and take a beating by the internet trolls that come in and out of this thread. Jay is a dealer for 3 lines and these lines don’t put Ferrari keys in my hands.

i live with this stuff and most who come in and out of this thread to attack me only see this stuff on magazines while they take a dump. They also can’t afford it so their rage against the ultra high end often (not always) comes from not being able to afford it. Don’t be mad at the dude (the messenger) who lives with this. I don’t make the products. Pick up the phone and call those brands and go off on them. Tell them why they are a rip off. I don’t want to hear it. Stop shooting the messenger. Instead of hating on me, why not figure out a way to earn more income so you can better your system? I’ve done it, it can be done. Spending stupid time here posting doesn’t get you money to better your current rig. If you are here trolling, you will have a full time in your hands going forward. You're better off finding someone else to troll and take your frustrations out on. However, it's clear that if you are coming to troll then i must be on your mind. If you hated what i do, you'd just close out of this and carry on and never turn back but you simply can't tune out. 

This is MY JOURNEY - NOT YOURS. However, somehow that gets overlooked?

Lastly, if my YouTube channel sounds bad, go find someone who has good videos on YouTube or go listen to those who simply review and have zero videos of their systems playing. You can analyze the soundstage coming out of their mouth and if their mouth sounds clear with enough depth and bass.

If you're going to respond to this post my saying " that's it, I've had enough of this. I can't take this. I'm out of here. I've followed you on YouTube and i don't like what you are doing" , instead of doing that, just close this window and quietly leave the room. I don't need to hear it and don't care to hear it so i just articulated for you. 

Oh, since some folks love to throw rocks at me and hide their hand right after (yes let’s not go there) this isn’t threat but you could call your local authorities just in case to be sure that your life isn’t in danger by this post.

Thanks

I could not find the same song at 0:00 and 3:00 approximately on any two Stromtank videos, so not sure what I was supposed to be comparing, however, some general comments:

• Lady in Red: There was no spatiality, there was simply excessive upper-mid/low high echo/reverberation. I know it is a youtube video, but it was pretty awful.
• Way Down in the Hole: Only slightly better. Strangely bright and reverberating.
• Suspicious Minds, La Isla Bonita -- more of the same.

Frankly, you can't discern anything from these videos. They sound like they were recorded in a bathroom, or with added electronics reverb. What I don't understand is why in some videos, whoever has the camera appear to be standing directly in front of one speaker, but it does not change the sound. Riddle me that.

Why is a pure sine wave not an advantageous waveform? Fourier analysis shows that any complex waveform is a mathematical combination of various sine waves at different frequencies. You could reduce this complex waveform to a combination of other waves such as triangle waves, but then the triangle wave is also a combination of simpler sine waves. The same could be said about a "prettified" modified sine wave that PS Audio is producing as an option. That modified sine wave can still be reduced to a combination of pure sine waves. Ultimately the sine wave is the most natural, simple waveform. Mathematically, the 1st derivative of sine x is cosine x, which is actually sine x 90 degrees out of phase. The 2nd derivative of sine x, or the 1st derivative of cosine x is minus sine x. We never left the perfect home--the sine wave. So the sine wave is the most natural, universal component wave from which all waves are derived. As far as I know, the only other function whose derivative is the same as the function, is "e to the x power" but this is not an audio wave.

This is gobbledygook. It is pointless for me to say anything in retort. We aren’t working from the same skill set. Frankly I don’t know what you are working from, but this is just a bunch of words thrown together while carrying no meaning. Please don’t do that.

Is this DC perfect, free of ultrasonic artifacts? I doubt it, and I believe a reconstructed AC from these battery/inverters does a better job.

You betcha it is. It is not even difficult to get rid of. You know what these inverters have by the way? Big honking huge switch mode power supplies.

theaudioamp,

No, you are wrong.  Several of the Giandel units say the same FCC thang.....Look at the two units with their display on the top on the first two lines of inverters on this page.......

theaudioamp,

Why is a pure sine wave not an advantageous waveform?  Fourier analysis shows that any complex waveform is a mathematical combination of various sine waves at different frequencies.  You could reduce this complex waveform to a combination of other waves such as triangle waves, but then the triangle wave is also a combination of simpler sine waves.  The same could be said about a "prettified" modified sine wave that PS Audio is producing as an option.  That modified sine wave can still be reduced to a combination of pure sine waves.  Ultimately the sine wave is the most natural, simple waveform.  Mathematically, the 1st derivative of sine x is cosine x, which is actually sine x 90 degrees out of phase.  The 2nd derivative of sine x, or the 1st derivative of cosine x is minus sine x.  We never left the perfect home--the sine wave.  So the sine wave is the most natural, universal component wave from which all waves are derived.  As far as I know, the only other function whose derivative is the same as the function, is "e to the x power" but this is not an audio wave.  

   (Kren0006, did I remember my math correctly?  It's been over 50 years!)

Using a decent recording such as the opening at 0:00 on the 1st video with S1000 and opening at 3:00 on the 2nd video with S2500, it is OBVIOUS that the S2500 has much more spatiality and fine resolution.  I just used another computer which emphasizes high freq, which made this more obvious than on my other computer.  I can just imagine the squiggles of ultrasonic HF junk in the inferior S1000 waveform, which are greatly diminished in the better reconstructed waveform of the S2500.  

theaudioamp--Did you carefully listen to these videos, or are you merely giving us engineering theory?  My guess is that your statement, "If those amps are as good as Jay claims, excuse my skepticism about any claim of reliably hearing that the Stromtank improves it," shows that you did not listen.  Although to prove my point, Jay would present the system with and without the S2500.  He may be tired of all the skeptics and may not want to bother to do this.  He already showed that the S2500 is a big step up in sound purity from the S1000, which I imagine is also a big step up from no battery/inverter at all.  So I would expect the jump from nothing to the S2500 to be humongous.

Jay, I agree wholeheartedly that the S2500 makes a much bigger improvement in clarity and naturalness than any combination of power cords.  It probably often makes a greater improvement than getting a different power amp or preamp.  Although better power/pre amps have lower distortion circuits, they still have to filter out the ultrasonic HF garbage superimposed on the pure AC sine wave they were designed to work with.  Their high capacitance input takes the AC from the wall and creates DC which feeds the main circuits.  Is this DC perfect, free of ultrasonic artifacts?  I doubt it, and I believe a reconstructed AC from these battery/inverters does a better job.

Do you agree, theaudioamp?  If not, why?  Using your quote about the hundreds of meters' distance from the power generating station, there is lots of ultrasonic HF junk all systems must get rid of, and I think that a well executed battery/inverter is the best way to do it.

FCC does not "approve" inverters. An inverter can be certified to meet FCC standards. That they use such language makes me question the validity of the claim. Their FCC marking is also not correct. They also states this only for the 5000W unit. Perhaps it was a requirement for a specific end customer (i.e. RV). The size is pretty typical (total volume) to other 5000W units.

When you start talking about the footers on the inverter changing the sound I know we are not going to have a useful conversation. Enjoy whatever part of the day it is where you are.

I will repeat......all inverters sound different.....just as all power amps sound different. It has been discussed here that the Stromtank S1000 and the S2500 sound different from each other. My friend had a Yeti 3000 and the Ecoflow Pro sounded much better.....then he got the Giandel system and it is way, way, way better sounding than the Ecoflow. I trust his ears...we always hear the same. Even the footers underneath the Inverter and the cables before and after the inverter and output connectors all make a sonic difference. Believe what you want.......but there is truth to be experienced......and it is not belief.......it is BE LIVE.....direct experience shows us what is real and not real.......and in audio....that means listening tests.  BTW....right in Giandel's lit on the 5000 watter:

"It is bigger and longer than normal 5000 watt inverters, because of FCC approved design to reduce EMI"

No ricevs, all inverters do not sound different unless you have poor equipment. Some people believe that everything sounds different and are more open to suggestion. Other people are more skeptical and realistic. Actually I do know how a Powerwall Inverter sounds. It sounds just like the AC line, which sounds like exactly nothing in my system. No noise, no hum, no distortion, nothing from the AC line. On a digital source, my system is dead silent. When I run turntable, I can hear the faint hint of noise as expected from the natural noise of a turntable stage due to the high gain. No 60Hz, no 120Hz. Why would I want a Powerwall in my listening room? It lives comfortable in the garage out of the way. I wouldn't put a bunch of things that look like car batteries in my listening room either.

I have little use for Enjoythemusic or Tom Lyle. Anyone who can make a claim about a review in 2019 sounding exactly like one they did in 2017 is writing fiction, not audio reviews and I note that I could find no review of the Yeti 3000 even though he promised one would be in his system and reviewed --- 3 years ago. Maybe I missed it.  There are a ton of pure sine wave inverters out of Asia, all using the same topology, Giandel is no different complete with no safety certification and no EMI certifications or compliance. For all you know it puts out wicked EMI on the battery cables.

@thezaks 

I hear you. No comment from me at this time 😀

theaudioamp,

So, have you listened to a Gaindel pure sine wave inverter versus a non pure sign wave signal from a PS Audio unit? Which sounds best? Tom Lyle had the $10K PS Audio and preferred the Stromtank and $450 Goal Zero.....

Yes, and the 5000 watt Giandel system is less than $3K.....add two more $800 batteries and you have 10K amp hours. All inverters sound different....How does the inverter in the $7500 Tesla Powerwall 2 sound? Do you know? Try fitting a Powerwall into your listening room....he he.

And what makes you so qualified on inverters? Have you listened to them? Jay has, I have, my friends have. I doubt Jay is running the 3060 on the S2500.....probably just the front end....the amp going into the wall.

Does anyone consider the irrationality that an stupendously expensive amplifier (and associated other electronics) requires a stupendously expensive amplifier to deliver good results?   From their literature,

Until electrical energy reaches your system it has travel hundreds of meters from the generating station. There is certainly no high-quality power cable on this route, so the energy will encounter a whole kaleidoscope of interferences on its way – from a multitude of radio signals to the feedback of thoudands of electrical devices connected to the electrical grid.

When engineers remind philes about this when discussing cables they are pilloried, yet when someone is trying to selling you an inverter it is okay?

The Stromtank is a pure sine wave output. Do those same people who pillory engineers understand that for most equipment, almost without exception in audio today, that a pure sine wave is not an advantageous waveform. Perhaps you have noted that PS audio has a feature to output something other than a sine wave on their units? Yes Virginia there is life after a sine wave.

The Stromtank with 5KWh of storage is $30,000. The Tesla Powerwall installed and with 13.5KWh is about $10-11K installed ($8.5K on its own). I believe the LG Resu is even cheaper on a KHh basis.

I do quite enjoy Ricevs and Jay arguing about things of which they both, to me at least, seem greatly under qualified to be arguing about or characterizing. If those amps are as good as Jay claims, excuse my skepticism about any claim of reliably hearing that the Stromtank improves it,

WC,

You mention that the You're getting hustled video would typically have been for members-only content, but you put it on YT to show us what you can get as a member.  My only comment is that, for this particular video, why would you want this to be for members only?   This is basically a sales presentation for the Stromtank, and I would think you would want as many folks as possible to watch it - not just members?   Maybe that's why you made the exception to put it on the public YT?

By the way, it's a good sales presentation, so don't get me wrong.  If I was buying $5K or more power cords, plus a conditioner, plus a power cord for the conditioner, then I would definitely want to consider one of these.  Well done, and it makes complete sense.

Dave

okay, thanks

He removed it... He knew better 

I missed it, what comment was it you are referring to?  Honestly, I missed it.  

@ricevs 

I'd appreciate it if you DO NOT COME AT ME with such comments. One more comment like that towards me and I'll take it to the moderators which will ban you. 

You've been warned. 

Here is a video of the rawness that will be showcased on my members only section from my website which will launch soon. This is one of the videos that won't make it to YouTube but that i have shared (i edited a few parts out to make it YouTube friendly). I hope you all don't miss this!

That said, musically but not sonically, I like the lead girl's voice on Cal Dreaming.  Lots of humanity.  She deserves an unprocessed natural recording team.  Are there any good recordings of her?  If anyone has examples, I would enjoy them, thanks.

I was not totally wrong.  With the better recording, I instantly heard the superiority of the S2500.  With the lousy Cal Dreaming recording, I heard junky processed sound that confused me.  The finest speaker/amp/preamp/dac in existence could not make natural sound from this sonic trash even with the perfect battery/inverter. But listen again to this song with the S1000.  There is greater quantity of upper midrange/HF output than with the S2500, but a lot is garbage, not natural content, where the S2500 is superior.  We will get a lot of laughs if Jay plays Cal Dreaming without any power product at all--I anticipate even more garbage.

Haha, sounds like a lot of excuse making, hand waving and revisionist history. Congratulations on realizing your analysis was wrong, Viber. That’s a start. Glad we could help

FYI.......the US versions of the Giandel Inverters do not do 240 volts output nor are they split phase....and even though Giandel makes 240V versions for overseas they will not work with the 3060 because they are not split phase. The Stromberg 5000 can put out 240V but I do not see in their specs whether it is split phase or not......if not, then you cannot plug a 3060 into it......I am sure Jay will email them and find out. Interesting that the then $20,000 and now $27,000 Stromberg S2500 was the one that Tom Lyle said that sounded basically the same as the $450 Goal Zero that I use. Just noticed that the Stomberg 5000 cannot do any more than 2400 watt for 30 minutes continuous (5000 watt peaks).......the Giandel 5000 watter can run 4000 watts all day (10,000 watt peaks).

Hardly anyone has a power amp that needs 240V split phase.....there are only a handful on the planet.....the $145,000 Boulder being one of them. Even the Boulder 2160 can run on 120V. Most all other amps will work fine with the Giandel 5000.

No, I call a spade a spade.  At first listen, there is more HF energy in the S1000, but further listening shows that this HF (or possibly upper midrange) energy has a significant amount of distortion in it.  No question that the HF content of the S2500 has more purity and naturalness.  A simple analogy is an old radio tuned slightly off.  At the center of tuning for 710 AM, the sound is fine, but at 709 or 711 there is more HF energy heard, but it is obvious that this added HF energy is all junky distortion.  This analogy is highly exaggerated, but the S1000 appears to be a tiny bit like the mistuned radio producing more distortion and less natural music than the S2500.  It remains to be seen whether the cheap units mentioned by ricevs will produce more distortion than the S1000.  

The simplest thing Jay can do is to demo the system with and without the S1000.  We might laugh our heads off saying how pure even the S1000 is compared to without it.  Looked at another way, if the reduction of perceived distortion via the best (say the S5000) is 99%, what is the reduction of perceived distortion via the cheap unit, or the S1000 or S2500?  That will determine how much money to spend on the very best, or settle with the best buy which is still a significant improvement.

I still say that the entire system, including the power amp will benefit, so the S5000 may be the ultimate cost-no-object way, and also the best buy, because even the S2500 won't be enough for the high power amp as well.  The cheap units mentioned by ricevs can handle the entire system.  This fact alone may make cheap systems compelling for most people, even for Jay if he doesn't want to go for the massive and extremely pricey S5000.  Or Jay could use the S2500 for his front end and try the cheap unit for the power amp.  Or a 2nd S2500 for just the power amp.  A worthwhile speculative $6K trial against the superb $27+ K S2500.  A much better speculation than over $10K for a euphonic flagship Koetsu cartridge.  Expensive cartridges are not returnable, like used underwear.

Okay, but I think you’re wrong and the 2500 actually lets through more high frequency content with better clarity. Let’s see what WC says - he’s in the room.

This is perhaps analogous to the Rouge trial, where you thought it had better high frequency content and clarity, but others like me and WC said, no, it didn’t, it was inferior there as well as all other areas which of course is nothing to be ashamed of given the price gap there, but it was what it was.

Different preferences, different hearing abilities, different abilities to assess what we hear - why different folks like different things