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My impressions of the much Hyped LAIV Harmony DAC (I ordered one and Listened to it.)

My System:


Speakers: Oris Orphean Horns with Klipschorn Bass Bins

Amps: Bi-Amped Korneff SET 45 Monoblock Clones on the Oris Horns with Dual MiniDSP 500 watts on the Bass Bins

Pre-Amp – Don Sach Model 2 (4) 6SN7 Tubes

Dacs – SMSL D400EX Vs. LAIV Harmony each fed by USB Raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer

Short Story – I returned it.

Long Story – It was the Process and details of the return that I learned the most about the company. The past year there has been a lot of hype regarding the LAIV Dacs. ‘Best DAC under $5 Grand’ etc. etc. etc. So, I went to the LAIV website and looked over their Products. And I see this too ! They have

30 Day Returns !! --- So, yes I want to ‘Shop safe and Smart’ also.

Shop safe and smart with LAIV.

I was interested enough that I went to their return policy page to find what a ‘home audition’ would cost me. After all the Harmony was going to cost me $2675 (I got a $25 discount by joining their ‘club’) , so it better be special and not something that I had to ‘strain’ to hear a difference between my existing SMSL D400ex (a measly $1 Grand Dac). The below is from their web page regarding refunds.

 

Refunds

 

Upon arrival at our approved destination, your product will undergo a thorough inspection to ensure it remains in pristine condition with all original materials intact. The process typically within 5 to 10 business days.

Upon completion of the inspection, and assuming all criteria are met, we will promptly notify you of the receipt of your product and initiate the refund process. Please allow 7 to 10 days for the refund to reflect in your account. Kindly note that a restocking fee listed below will be deducted from the refund amount.​

  1. Harmony DAC - $200/unit

  2. Harmony HP2A - $200/unit

  3. Harmony GaNM - $250/pair

  4. Harmony µDAC - $125/unit

  5. Harmony µDDC - $125/unit

  6. Harmony LExt - $100/unit 

Additionally, All orders will be subject to an additional deduction of 4.5% of the order amount from the refund due to non-refundable payment platform fees.In the event that the return items do not meet our standards of mint condition, we will provide notification and advice regarding any open box fees, in addition to restocking fees, incurred due to damages.​Furthermore, if you have incurred import taxes on your delivered products, the responsibility lies with you to claim a refund from the respective carrier (e.g., DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc.).We're committed to ensuring you're happy with your purchase. If you have any questions or concerns, please check out our terms and conditions or reach out to us. We're here to help!

 

So, I briefly scanned the page and saw that the Harmony Dac had a $200 restocking fee. So, that was

definitely at my upper limit of an audition. And $200 was on the high side, in my opinion. But I wanted the Dac and wanted to believe the hype, so I was hoping that I would think that the Dac was worth $2,675 to me, and I would not have to return it.

So, in listening to the LAIV for a few days, I could not discern a difference between my Cheapie $1 Grand SMSL D400ex and the LAIV Harmony. (So, yes, the Emperor has no clothes). I had both DACs plugged into my Preamp and had two Identical Streamers plugged into each Dac, playing in Sync the exact same Music. So, it was very easy to switch back and forth between Dacs and discern any differences. So I started the ‘return process’.

I contacted LAIV and receive the following response:

***********************************************************************************

“Please find the attached repacking and return guide and go through the guide to prepare the return units.

Just a friendly reminder to provide the following information as outlined in the guide!
1. A photo of the device showing the serial number clearly.
2. A photo of the device showing the top view and bottom view of the device.
3. A photo of the device box after packed.
4. A photo of the device box inside the shipping box.
5. A photo of the shipping box after seal up.
6. A photo of the complete package with the outer shipping box showing the serial number.

If all items are in mint condition, the expected total refund will be as follows:

$2,675 - $200 (Restocking fees) - $120 (4.5% Payment Platform fees) = $2,355

***********************************************************************************

So, oh F*ck, I missed the ‘extra’ $120 for god knows what reason! So, now the audition would cost me $320 – which I would have passed on if it was included in the restock fee next to the Harmony Dac. No way would I pay $320 for an audition. Maybe that’s why it wasn’t there (camouflaged, I’d say, - make up your own mind). Anyway they got me on that one. If this was shopping smart, why do I feel so stupid?

 

--- Not a bad profit, I’d say. They got $320 of pure profit, and they got their Dac back in ‘Mint’ condition. Maybe the return business is better than actually selling Dacs?

 

Then I notice the seven photos I’ll have to take (Never had to do this one before) and then I open the attached ‘repacking and return guide’. It’s 17 Fricken Pages! So, this Repacking and Return guide is written better and more complete than any user manual that I’ve ever seen. So, it dawns on me that this company is really planning on a lot of returns. This is part of their Business Plan! Now I really hate this company and vow to never do business with them again. Yup, they have made me an Enemy for Life by sneakingly hiding their total restock fee.

 

This is a Public Service announcement. If you are interested in LAIV products, and considering an audition, keep in mind their ‘return procedures’ and don’t forget to add another 4.5% to the restocking fee. *************** You’re Welcome! – You can’t download the repacking and return manual and I could not attach it to this post, as it was too large. But if you want a copy e-mail or message me and I’ll send you a copy.

cutthroat

Showing 2 responses by mattw73

mattw73
140 posts
 

I am truly sympathetic to your situation & frustration. 

There has definitely been moments when I have looked over certain companies return policies & have wondered if the better outcome for them is if the item is returned. But if their policy's are front & center we ultimately have to take the majority of the responsibility. We made a choice. It sucks though. 

I imagine you figured all this hype couldn't be wrong..this $2700 dac had to clearly beat what you already owned. You rolled the dice. From my personal experience these R2R dacs take a ridiculous amount of time to settle in to their final sound. 

I know that break-in/burn-in is one of those arguments or beliefs that are different for everyone. The Pontus 15th definitely made me a believer. I was cursing that Dac for well over a month & had even sent out a couple emails pleading that my unit was broke in some sort of way. It eventually turned into the machine that everyone else raved about. I don't think Denafrips even takes returns unless the unit is broken. 

I have the Laiv uDac at the moment. I would say that it doesn't match what other users & reviewers have claimed. I've been playing it a week yet I'm not freaking out due to my experience with that other R2R dac. Before purchasing both dacs I already come to the conclusion that if I don't like either I will trade or sell for hopefully just a slight loss rather than trying to do the return dance with either of these companies. 

I don't normally take that approach or mindset..but with these 2 certain companies that was the decision I made. Like you I was also thinking that because of the hype I would surely be keeping them. 

I understand your frustration. The term "that sucks" keeps replaying in my head. I think that your story is an example of why many people only buy from local dealers or certain brands. Hopefully venting here a little bit will help you move on..& not dwell on it to the point where it's causing you daily grief for awhile. 

mattw73
140 posts
 

Please know that in my comment I stated that I have looked at certain companies return policy & wondered if they made out better with returns. I was referring to a couple instances where it's plus 20% on top of shipping. I know of a company that's 30-35% if you have done a couple returns to them in the past. To me these restocking fees become a concern with higher priced items.

The only time I've had return shipping covered is if there is an issue with a product. I have even returned good working products & sellers want reimbursement for the initial free shipping. In all of these instances I've been aware upfront of store policy's. I make it a point to understand these things before purchase. 

I don't believe that sellers have these policy's to turn a profit. I think lanx0003 brings up good points where Laiv is concerned. Upon my purchase there was no extra shipping charge, no tariff charge, & I'm almost positive they mention the processing fees somewhere on their website. 

I tried to be sympathetic to the OP for the fact that he wasn't happy with a product. On top of being personally let down with the product he was further bothered by having to pay for his letdown or mistake for not reading all the fine print. Which is unfortunate but I also know that the fine print is not hidden.  We as buyers have to take responsibility for the choices we make..when all the info is given up front. 

Personally, & this is just my opinion, I feel that the OP is more unhappy that he purchased something he had high hopes for & it didn't work out. That is where I am sympathetic. His return cost is barely 10% if we add in shipping, insurance, fees. Like I mentioned I just recently purchased a Laiv product..much cheaper than the Harmony. Me basically saying I won't return the product if I don't like it has more to do with me personally not wanting to deal with returning items across seas than their actual policy's. I also feel it will be easy to sell or trade & will lose a couple hundred just trying to return it anyway. Maybe if it was a $3k plus item I wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. 

Anyway, I felt I needed to clarify myself as I didn't want to be accused of me thinking Laiv did something wrong. They have been super cool before & after purchase with me. Great customer service..quick to answer Any questions. They messaged me a couple times over the week I waited for shipment. They checked on me after it arrived. And I do feel bad that the dac did not work out for this gentleman/OP. A lot of us roll the dice when purchasing something we can't get our hands or ears on locally. It's a bummer & slight inconvenience when it doesn't work out. 

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