My Heresy IV at 168 hours w/ a change of tubes.
Wow, what speakers.
We've all seen the gushing reviews from Steve Huff and others on youtube and the forums. It seems today everything is given 5 A+'s in the reviewisphere these days even though 90% of what is reviewed s not even adaquit. Reading and viewing these over the top reviews about The Heresy IV's, I was skeptical, but the ridiculous replies rebuking these reviews by people that obviously had neither experience nor interest in the Heresy IV's made me say, hmmmmmm.
After two years in consideration I pulled the trigger. I purchased the Heresey IV'sfrom HiFi Heaven in Greenbay for $2,500 with free one day shipping. I turn my system on and let it running for 5 days straight. The speakers sounded quite nice but it was missing a soul. I was disappointed and thinking of the possibility of returning them, then I read the review on Stereonet. The reviewer described what I was hearing and had a solution. He switched from a 200 watt amp which I believe ran KT88"s to an e34 amp. He described the relationship between the amp and the speakers as being a meeting of soulmates and spoiler, this is what happened to me.
I am a Quicksilver guy. Ive been sucking on the Quicksilver tit since something like 1995 or so.....I think. For the last 10 years Ive been running MidMono's with......KT88's even though they were built with e34's in mind. I needed the juice for the speakers Ive been using for years. These speakers were Boston Acoustic Lynnfield Project VR950's. The 950's are either ignored or pooh poohed by many, but they are some very detailed lively speakers. During my years with the Bostons I had several extended demo sessions with other much more expensive speakers and although they were better certainly, they were not change my life better, surely not worth the high costs associated with the upgrades, so I kept the Bostons. The Bostons can be quite deep soundstage and sideways they can through percussion into the next room. The I believe the caps started to go bad and the voices within the soundstage started to wander; this is why I started looking for replacements.
So, Im using MidMonos, a Quicksilver 12AT7 preamp, a PSAudio DirectStream Sr., and 2012 Mac Mini as a NaAS and a HSU Sub used very sparingly. Again with the 88"s the Heresy IV's sounded, not bad but sterile and many pieces sounded like the had been taken apart and rearranged in wonky fashion, very odd indeed. The bass was generally not mushy, but undecided. The midrange could easily get cluttered. There was nothing to celebrate and started to miss the Bostons.
Pieces I loved and knew intimately were disassembled. Things like Peo Alfonsi's Amada or Alma, or Pietropaoli's Le Notte, Likewise, etc. Virtually everything in DSD. Bass-line segments would all of a sudden be pushed into the background in mid phrase and a guitar would jump out front a third louder that it should have been. I tried to tame this with my sub and speaker position to no affect. It was very weird. Even if other pieces sounded fine, they still lacked soul. The kind of soul that makes you smile uncontrollably. The sound was, wide yes, but not enveloping, it was like looking at a photograph taped to the wall. A nice pho, but not reality. The depth was only to the wall....all around disappointing. It reminded me of what almost every positive reviewer had said, "the speak is Fun." and it was, but I thought, I don't want Fun, I want it to sound like it's the most important thing in my life.
I was in a quandary. I thought maybe it is just break-in. I sold a beloved VPI Classic to fund my Direct Stream Sr. which sounded like absolute crap until after like 800 hours running 24hours a day, maybe 1,000 hours, I can't remember and then all of a sudden KA....BOOOOOM !!! Magic. The final software update, I believe is Windom is unbelievably great. I think they started with this software and purposely lessened the initial dozen or so versions so they could upgrade the DS Sr. in increments for several years, but I am a cynic. Anyway, I figured the problem with the Heresy's was a burn-in issue so I would wait, but then again if I waited for the full 500 hours I would miss my return deadline........
Then I read the review by Rafael Todes
https://www.stereonet.com/reviews/klipsch-heresy-iv-floorstanding-loudspeaker-review
I'm sure I'd read it before, maybe many times, but what he said didn't gel with me until I experienced his issues myself.
"I also found that changing my power amplifiers lessened the effect. I substituted another valve amplifier in my collection – a restored Marantz 8B running EL34s, and dating from 1962. This was one of the finest amplifiers of this period and would have been a regular partner for Klipsch loudspeakers back in the day. What a combination! Those sweet little EL34 power valves brought more air to the proceedings than the KT88s of the VAC, and I heard an energy and life to the recording that jumped right out at me. I’ve never heard the Marantz sound so good; it was as if it had found its life partner. The rhythmic tension was excellent, as it delivered fast and accurate transients with toe-tapping drive."
So I looked for my original Quicksilver e34's which I hadn't seen in a decade and most likely never will. I couldn't find them so I ordered a set of e34L's from Tube Depot three days ago. They came today. I figured another 24 hours to burn these in then I would start making the decision to return the Heresy's or not.
I knew they were arriving today so I turned the system off allowing the 88's to cool. The tubes came and I plugged them in and started Alma by Alfonsi and.......
B.O.O.M. !!!! Immediately... Glorious beautiful gorgeous enveloping soulful sound covered me and every cubic micron of my room exploded in perfect sound. It was like getting punched in the face with joy and contentment. It was a revelation. Now I know what Steve Huff and Tode were on about.
Apparently it's not all recordings LOL, as Im writing this, Amada ended and Audirvana cued a FLAC of Al Demeola by random and it sounded like crap, so be warned. You can't have any weak links in the system. Keep in mind Amada was my reference.
What's all this mean?
It means these speakers are exactly what Steve Huff said they are. If you try them out and they don't change your life, there is something wrong with your system, not the speakers. If you're using SS, use a low watt tube rig and if you can, DSD.
T
hmm, not sure what you are saying here.
"""imo, I’d be going after that QS Linestage next if I were you. Helped a few friends on upgrading theirs. Having the transformer/ground checked for noise. Better 12AT7s and caps in the QS pre/linestage helps more, along with quiet AC power."""
I have a QS Line pre and everything is perfecto. Maybe I didn't explain what I was trying to in opening post, but my problem was the KT88's. With the e34L's Im in audio bliss. But I do appreciate your input.
T |
And what specific upgrades did have done and who did it and how long did it take? Have you also heard a 6SN7 preamp and is that even nicer? Are you or others using QS monoblocks and what are everybody's source materical appliances? I'm thinking it my be best to through in a 6SN7 preamp and compare rather than convert a QS LP and always wonder " is it better? was it a mistake? etc" Any suggestions from anyone on a 6SN7 preamp? I'd like to stay American and of course as cheaply as is practicable.
Thank you, T |
"the average person is absolutely good with any of these units in stock form. For the other 10% of us who want more, it can be achieved within reason, and for fairly low cost too."
Yeah, I like the quest as well, but Im just worried about F' - ing something up. I have too much experience with that :-) . If I had a tech-friend in the neighborhood that could make changes and put things back as they were just in case within a short time, I would be all over it. As is known, a lot of this is subjective. I am know regretting selling previous GS pre's. It would be a no brainer if I had a QS backup. OK, back to me F-ing things up.... Cap upgrade, what am I looking for in caps and what changes can I expect after I switch them out, just generally, ie what are the benefits of upgraded caps? Other internal upgrades, what are they and how are they done? Or are the 6SN7 preamps far superior negating the upgrading of the QS. The 6SN7 preamp's, all I see on line seem to be kits, are they a rarity?
T
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"Some stuff sounds amazing, other stuff not so much."
Yes, I hear you. So far I'm finding, luckily, the stuff I like most is sounding great. And although it's true some sound, NOT so great, these are things, so far, I can live without, but I don't believe there is any speaker that can do everything great. At the moment I'm happy to deal with this tradeoff. And I think it's always been this way. Thanks
T
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OK, thank you all 'for all the input. I think I will look into upgrading the caps in both my line pre and the mid-monos. Is there a site you can recommend so I can learn what I need to so I don't kill myself or the amps? I imagine it is just locate the caps, remove & solder in the new ones, but I don't know what I don't know, so better to do some reading. I did build a step-up transformer many years ago. How many caps are we talking about in the blocks and the pre? BTW I cannot find any of the "non-oilers" when it comes to the Mundorf Silver-Gold EVO's and are there any other suggestions or should I stick to them when I find them. Can you recommend a shop to purchase?
Thanks T |
Speaking of matched.... I was looking on the TCTubes site and I was thinking, well, they're not matched so how big of a deal is it? I have 3 matched KT88 gold lions, the forth broke years ago. What would happen if I rolled the dice on a single gold lion without knowing the matching and plugged it into a midmono?.......more curious than anything. Or I may send one to Tube Depot to get a match and then sell the set of four on audiogon.
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Thanks everybody. @decooney TCTubes, awesome. Maybe my first step will be trying some NOS 12AT7, who knows?
Thanks again All |
Also something I did that I think may have improved the H4's, but most likely just in my head. I removed the steel jumpers and made some out of bare copper solid core. if anyone hasn't thought of it. Then again, on the inside of the terminal door, the back of the terminals are connected with non copper quick connects, I was thinking of using some silver solder and doing away with the quick connects, but the other end of the wire is probably connected with the same quick connects, so I guess I haven't accomplished much, the hole just keeps dropping, :-)
T |
I am using E34's now and it sounds great. The KT88 in question is an older set I haven't used in years. The bottom of the 4th tube broke off while rolling tubes. I probably used them for about 1.5 years. Nothing needs to be checked out with my system, it is running optimally. We've been discussing the possibility of upgrading the caps.
Thanks T |
LOL Sorry @decooney , I didn’t notice that was you that said "take the preamp and amps with you to the tech at the same time then - have it all checked out, tubes, bias all input/driver (inside bias adj) and output tubes (external)" When I read it, it just struck me as if the poster (I didn’t register it was you) was one that didn’t read the thread and jumped in with doom and gloom and I had to get my equipment to the hospital as soon as possible because it was in serious trouble. I figured it was the Quicksilver disparager above (carlsbad). 1- it is sounding great at the moment. 2- I am going to price a cap job. 3- I am going to look into some NOS tubes
Sorry I blew up on you. :-)
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No, I'm cool. If I was having any actual issue with my sound......everybody would know it :-) I can just be a hothead and I'm not the greatest at expressing in chat. Audiophilia is an addiction and can make us irrational and testy. Look how I mistook Decooney for a troll and bit his head off. LOL My system is sounding great at the moment, but whenever I make a considerable change I am surprised things that can still get better, so I'm willing to go for a cap job and you're right, I can always go back. T |
Weird. I thought I replied to this last comment.
When I first received this AT7 it had the noise problems you mention. I sent it back to mike and he fixed whatever it was. Seeing this discussion make me wish I hadnt sold my fullfunction GS pre. I wish I had thought of upgrading it instead of selling. I miss it greatly.
T |
