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Music Server Setup: Airport Express or Extreme?

I’m expanding my audio system to include other rooms in my apartment.

I’d appreciate some advice as to what the Apple Airport Base Station, Extreme or Express (or both together), are the best way to integrate this. I’ve been researching and considering this for a couple years, but it is time to harden my plans and ask specific questions. One area of confusion is with various Apple Airport Base Station models: I’ve read many conflicting reports regarding reliability/functionality benefits between the Express and the Extreme, so I’m a little confused.
I am on a tight budget now. I also want the Airport to meet my general computer networking functions as well as my audio needs.

Here’s the lay of the land:

I live in a multiple story pre-WWII residential apartment building in NYC (I mention this in case building construction effects wireless communications: my walls are plaster/lathe vs. sheetrock; ceilings are plaster and wire lathe; the wiring in the building is from an era gone by, so no contemporary in-wall network cabling, in fact most room only have 2 electrical outlets). With my laptop, I am able to connect with other wireless networks in the building, depending on location. My Internet connection is via DSL. There is a cable installed in my apartment but I do not subscribe.

I want to play music potentially into two other Satellite Rooms in addition to my main listening room: one of those Satellite Rooms shares a common wall with my listening room (perhaps I can just run speaker wire through this wall to power a 2nd pair of efficient speakers?). Another room is about 30 feet away from my listening room.

My main listening room:
Includes my analogue music rig and my desktop computer system.

Analogue Hardware:
I have a vintage Yamaha Integrated Amp, Meridian 508.20 CD player, Polk Lsi9 speakers, Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable, Kimber Kables.
Integrated Amp has 2 pairs of speaker outputs (one pair are unused).

Computer Hardware:
My main computer is an Apple G5 desktop (Dual 2.3 GHz PowerPC w/4.5 GB memory). NO airport card is installed in the computer.

My laptop is an Apple G4 iBook (1.33 GHz PowerPC G4, 768 MB memory, w/60GB internal hard drive). The laptop has an Airport Extreme internal card installed.

I have a dedicated external 500GB HD to store my iTunes music library (which is backed up to a second dedicated external 500GB HD). My digital music files are mostly Apple Lossless (with duplicates in AAC and MP3 files for downloading to my iPod).

My music server as it has been configured for the past 2 years or is an afterthought. It plays only in my main listening room and consists of the External HD (used to hold my music library) that is connected to my Apple G5 desktop computer with just an RCA splitter cable going from the G5’s audio-out to an input on my integrated amp. The Apple G5 runs iTunes. No aftermarket DAC, no remote controls. I control iTunes from the G5 desktop directly with a wired keyboard/mouse.

I want to do 3 things and in separate stages:
Stage 1) I want to pipe music into one other room, Satellite Room #1 (my bedroom). Satellite Room #1 shares a common wall with the main listening room and if need be I could run speaker wires through the wall to power a second pair of efficient speakers. ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now: I will upgrade the audio quality later as finances allow. I will only ever need to listen to music in ONE room at any given time.
Stage 2) add ability to pipe music into Satellite Room #2 (the living room). ‘Background’ quality audio will be sufficient for now.
Stage 3) Upgrade the DAC.

Remote Control Considerations:
I want to be able to control the music server remotely from any of the Satellite Rooms. For example, I would like the iBook laptop with its internal Airport Extreme card to wirelessly control iTunes (running on my G5) from other Satellite Room locations. What sort of Airport Base Station do I need to purchase: Extreme or Express? Also, does the G5 need its own INTERNAL Airport Card installed in ADDITION to the Airport Base Station?

Eventually, I would like to introduce a pair of speakers into Satellite Room #2 and have the same sort of remote control over the music server with the portable iBook as I have in Satellite Room #1. I expect for the Satellite Room #2, I will need to purchase a second amp in addition to speakers…but what other hardware would I need to get music into the third room? Or how best to realize this on a budget?

I may purchase an iPhone in the near future. I understand that iPhones (or even generic remote control devices) can remotely control the iTunes music server. If so, this would free up the iBook laptop in the event I need a second computer to run the system in one of the Satellite Rooms.

DAC Upgrade:
I’ve read on here much over the past couple years about DACs. Presently, I am using the internal Apple DAC built into the G5 desktop computer. I have read extensively about its limitations and after I get Satellite Room #1 operative, I will experiment with a budget DAC upgrade: maybe a Gary Nixon unit or a Benchmark USB. If an updated DAC sounds pleasing, I’ll sell the CDP and convert my system sources to only a digital music server and vinyl.

***I also want to be able to have the iBook and the G5 wirelessly networked together for general (non-audio) computing and file sharing as well, bear that in mind when recommending an Apple Airport model.

Thanks a bunch for any input or suggestions.

-Lovegasoline
lovegasoline
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
I’ve read on here much over the past couple years about DACs. Presently, I am using the internal Apple DAC built into the G5 desktop computer. I have read extensively about its limitations and after I get Satellite Room #1 operative, I will experiment with a budget DAC upgrade: maybe a Gary Nixon unit or a Benchmark USB

DAC1 has been around for a while and continues to hold up with high resale price. All for a very good reason - it is pretty close to as good as it gets (at any price). I can confirm the older model does a good job with Toslink. It seems to work as claimed - feed it any old crap signal and you get pristine sound out - immune to input source as far as my tin ears can tell (although some "golden ears" will claim differently)
jax2
3,031 posts
 
I'm just going to give you some fast responses based on a quick read of your lengthy post. The cheapest solution would be to run a second set of speaker wires to another pair of speakers. Not sure why you are thinking efficient speakers unless your amp is really low-powered. You could also interface a speaker switching box as made by Bryston (kind of pricey, but no sonic losses in my experience) and turn off and on each set independent of each other. You'll need an Airport Base Station for your G5 if you choose wireless. The Apple accessory antenna(I believe it may be discontinued) for the g5 towers is absolutely worthless in my experience. Do a search online and you may be able to find some amplified alternatives should you need to use your tower as a remote instead of a base. If you connect the g5 directly to the base station by ethernet cable you don't have to be concerned with buying a card and antenna for it (the base station would be all you need to stream music and to network with your card-carrying iBook). You would need an Airport Express as a receiver if you plan on just buying a DAC with optical input (you'd also need a mini-toslink to go from the AE to your DAC and that DAC must have toslink - Apple makes a stereo-kit for the AE which includes a Monster mini-toslink adapter - there may be alternatives as well). Alternatively you can use the much less than desirable analogue output from the AE to go into another amplifier to accessory speakers, or just use amplified speakers and do away with another box. Not recommended as far as the analog signal from the AE is concerned though. Alternatively you could get a music server device such as a Transporter (which has a DAC) or a Squeezebox or other such device. They'd allow you to interface with a remote control and see your selections AT the location of the actual device, rather than just at your computer.

Hope that helps.
lovegasoline OP
5 posts
 
Sorry for the long post, probably should have asked this in stages, but I want to get an overview of the hardware I’ll need. Thanks for the replies.
[no edit feature for forum posts(?), I see crazy typos in my original past].

Thanks for the confirmation on the DAC1; when the times comes it is on the shortlist

Efficient speakers only because I have 4ohm speakers that demand lots of juice…if I upgrade the speakers in my main room and move the 4ohm speakers to a Satellite room, long wire runs (even with heavy gage wire) could demand more juice than the amp can output.

So, the Apple Extreme is NOT recommended for this application?

Simple solution for the getting the first pair of remote speakers up and running:
I just buy an Airport Express base Station and an Ethernet cable.
Connect AE to the G5 with the Ethernet cable (no other hardware/needed?).
Run speaker wire to a Satellite Room #1 with a pair of monitors.

At that point, will I be able to remotely control iTunes playing on the G5 from my iBook (with AE card) in the Satellite Room?

-Lovegasoline
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Efficient speakers only because I have 4ohm speakers that demand lots of juice…if I upgrade the speakers in my main room and move the 4ohm speakers to a Satellite room, long wire runs (even with heavy gage wire) could demand more juice than the amp can output.

Understood.

So, the Apple Extreme is NOT recommended for this application?

The Airport Extreme is not recommended in using the line output option. That sounds terrible to my ears...unless you have low expectations of the satellite system and are only listening while doing other things I would not go that route personally. If you use the digital output option to an external DAC you'll be getting better results, IMO, depending on the DAC you use. Again, this is only an option via optical/mini-toslink and NOT via other connective routes.

Simple solution for the getting the first pair of remote speakers up and running:
I just buy an Airport Express base Station and an Ethernet cable.
Connect AE to the G5 with the Ethernet cable (no other hardware/needed?).
Run speaker wire to a Satellite Room #1 with a pair of monitors.

If you run speaker wire from your amp to another room you do not need anything else but a pair of speakers to hook them to. If you are referring to powered speakers (speakers with amplifiers integrated into them) then you would still need a receiving unit in the remote room. This unit could be an Airport Express with line outputs as I suggested sounds just OK, but would not meet with high-end expectations, IMO. It could also be a unit like a Squeezebox, which actually displays the songs at the unit and has a remote control, or better yet, a Transporter, which actually integrates a decent DAC. Otherwise you would need an external DAC to take the optical feed from your Airport Express.

At that point, will I be able to remotely control iTunes playing on the G5 from my iBook (with AE card) in the Satellite Room?

You could use a remote with a Squeezebox or a Transporter, but with the Airport Express options you would need to be controlling your selections from your base computer, or from your laptop if it is properly networked via the Airport card you indicated it has. I'm not sure about that networking interface since I do not use it myself. Perhaps someone else could advise here. With the Squeezebox or Transporter they have their own remotes and you see the selections on the respective units. They hook up wirelessly to your computer/music library (on your external hard drive you indicated you had).
rbstehno
1,432 posts
 
jax2- let me correct some of your statements. 1) you don't need a squeezebox or transporter to get remote control capabilities from the mac. actually you are wasting your $$$ if you get the squeezebox and you could do better by getting different equipment for the same $$$ as the transporter. 2) you don't want to use the monster toslink to rca cable since you will not get the quality of the music that you want. 3) you don't need to use only the toslink connection to the dac.

here is a recommendation that i have setup for many people (my self included) that preferred this setup to a sooloos or qsonix setup (sounds better and saves thousands of $$$).
* mac computer - any mac will do - it can be your workhorse mac if needed
* airport express - wired or wireless
* good quality toslink cable with toslink adapter with a longer stem
* good quality jitter reduction device (toslink from computer or AE)
* good quality digital coax cable (or aes if equipped)
* good quality external dac with input connections that match the jitter device
* good quality cables from the dac into the preamp

by using a jitter device, you will be cleaning up the signal before it reaches the dac. also, by using this setup, you can go out and buy the best dac that you can afford. you are not limited to only toslink or usb connections. your best dacs don't use usb right now anyway and coax is a preferred connection.

for remote control, don't limit yourself to a couple lines on a squeezebox or transporter. if you use the above setup, all you need is an iphone or ipod touch to connect to the mac and pick the playlists/songs/albums/internet radio stations that are linked on your mac. these devices give you a graphical user interface with coverflow/album artwork/etc... all for free. apple has the remote app you can download.
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