Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I know that there are much more expensive power conditioners out there. I've read all about the Changs, Audio Magics, Richard Gray, Shunyata,PS Audio etc.
The thing is, my gilfriend wants to buy me a $300 gift and unfortunately, nothing I want is that inexpensive. I currently don't any power conditioning on my system. I'm looking at the HTS3600 as a starter power conditioner. Any opinions or other suggestions?
I researched quite a few power conditioners, and I finally decided on Monster, mostly because of the design team behind the development of it. They've got one of the leading experts on AC power designing their power conditoners and voltage regulator. I own them both, and so far i have seen some improvement in video and audio resolution, I don't think it really justifies the cost, but it's cool to have anyway. Later. Readster
then again, im delaing with gear that is not quite up to par with yours, so it might not really be detectable. Maybe i need better equipment to show that weakness.
Im going to keep that in mind though, once i get into my new house and am able to start working on my rig again
So Slap Man, its been a week now. Did you ever remove from and listen to your system without your so-called Monster Power Conditioner? Hello out there! Tom
Hey Slappy, I'm not against power conditioners. I'm against inferior conditioners which usually screw up the music, rather than let it happen. I don't relate to anything you're using. Just having your cdp on the same line as your analog is a big negative. Electricity is very mystical. Its' properties hard to define, measure, and really understand in the "sound" sense. I'm in heaven with my Audio Magic stuff. (read under system) I did have the opportunity to disconnect everything and listen with and without, several times. Even with dedicated lines, there is a VERY big difference. Soundstage like I never heard. It's a personal thing. Very system dependent. Save your money and like Tom said, put in some dedicated lines. At least separate your digital from your analog. That may do it for you. When you got the $$$, buy a used Audio Magic Mini Stealth and the Mini digital. That'll, probably be your first step in upgrading your entire system. It was for me. Funny, though, after I thought I was done I traded up to the Audio Magic Matrix. Now I'm there. I know it's a temporary thing, but it's great for now. ...now, to get into montor stands...just fool'n ya. BTB: Tom, your laconic way is so refreshing--to the bone.. peace, warrren
Slappy for test: Plug your Denon 3803 direct into the wall,then plug your favorite source piece into the unswitched ac output of the receiver. Plug your sub directly into the wall. These are the only pieces that need to hooked up at this time to do this evalation..Tom
"The switching of the AC line is intense, devices like resistors, capacitors, wire etc. will resonate or ring to the tone of the 60 HZ; this creates distortion. The greater the overall resolution the more obvious this problem becomes"
OK, so I want some AC conditioning right?
"Surge protectors attempt to “clamp” the AC; produces even greater harmonic difficulty."
So I dont want it?? Elaborate please. I understand the implication, but it lacks an explanation.
" Systems with low resolution will APPEAR to produce a cleaner signal with a line conditioner."
Alright, so systems with poor resolution will "sound" better, but in actuality they "sound" worse, when AC conditioning/surge protection is present. Is it safe to assume high resolution systems will "sound" worse but in actuality will "sound" better under the same conditions. I need to brush up on my Fractal Geometry.
Forgive me, but I more confused than ever now. Or maybe I am thinking clearly and I just think I am confused. Aww, forget it, maybe the Alligators know.
Slappy: Systems with low resolution will APPEAR to produce a cleaner signal with a line conditioner. Remember,” when you drain the swamp you expose the alligators”. ANY device on the supply side of the electronics must face the full wrath of the line [AC current], there is no protection from the power supply. The switching of the AC line is intense, devices like resistors, capacitors, wire etc. will resonate or ring to the tone of the 60 HZ; this creates distortion. The greater the overall resolution the more obvious this problem becomes. Surge protectors attempt to “clamp” the AC; produces even greater harmonic difficulty. If you need greater outlet capacity then use a power strip that plugs directly into the outlet with no power cord,Woods makes a real nice one that can be "daisy chained" together.
A power line conditioner will not protect anything; a surge protector is designed to that. However, in most cases both will cause performance problems. The greater the systemÂ’s resolution, the greater the potential for apparent signal degradation. What they really do is limit performance. The power supply of the amp will absorb spikes like sponge, so there is no need for one there. If you are worried about lighting; the best protection is to pull the plug out of the outlet during a storm.
Slap Man if you listen tonight listen first for a while to your usual choice cuts.. Turn system off without changing volume or any other control. Un plug system from conditioner. Plug receiver and cd directly to wall. Play same source and music as previous. Remember to keep your hands off that dial..Tom
Ya know, i have been using a line conditioner for about 2 years. Maybe i will try it without one this evening.
and pray to got some wierd ball lightning phenomenon does not occurr at that precise minuit! :)
If it turns out that mine sounds better without a line conditioner, im gonna be annoyed that i bought one and used it for 2 years without noticing.:)
ya know dude, i gotta give you credit for perseverance! after a 2nd line conditioner i woulda quite. hahahathathat attitude is probably the reason im not a denver bronco huh? hehehe
Slap man, like I indicated before I use no protection. I have not yet installed a line conditioner that has not degraded the sound of my system.. I have not used everything out there only ten different brands and models...Tom
Do you guys actually believe that? that no power protection is good? how so?
-----Slappy's disclaimer------- i dont mean any offence in the above remark, so it it appears offenceive that was not my intent, and i apologize in advance for any offence anybody might have taken -------------------------------
I don't use any protection at all! As a result textural feel is increased. Much easier to focus. Seems to be in better contact with the original intended environment. Definitly sweeter. Much more dynamic contrast. Deeper soundstage. The audience also likes it better. Didn't cost me fifty cents...or three for a dollar... Tom
well, i guess if you have 5,000,000 you wont be messing around with monster huh?? :) hehehe
Im sure there is stuff better out there, i just think monster has a pretty decent product with pretty good service, wasnt my intent to knock any other companys! :)
I cant say anything about panamax because i havent tried one yet, im sure they are good products because they do get respect on the gon', i was just spouting what i DO know about! Plus, he asked about monster power conditioners. I know there is better stuff out there.
Maybe MY nose is angled too far down to see the stuff up above! hahahah
Plus, i said dont let anybody think you NEED a better unit, i dont think you do. you might WANT one though, depending on what quality of gear you are putting into it!
I have an HTS-2600, it works just fine. noticeble sound improvement, and only runs 350 bucks. dont let eveyone lead you to believe you need to spend 700 on a power conditioner. Im hoping that 3600 that allowed 270 volts was just a faulty unit. My HTS 2600 did an excellent job of protecting my equipment during a lightning hit.
remember, the whole point of the power is for A Surge protection, and B to clean the power up. Its more for A than B, Definatly A is more important than B. The power conditioner is just another tweak.
Plus, Monster's customer service if above first rate. If your power supply crapps out, they will send you a new one, once you reciever that, then you return your old one.
If you buy opne from Ultimate Electronics, SoundTrack, or Audioking, they are distributers and if it craps out you can swap it out for a free new one. I swapped out one that lost its stage 2 circuitry (i assume from the lightning) about 2 years after i bought it, no questions asked.
Also, if a surge frys your equipment while it is protected by monster power, they will replace up to about $40,000.00 of equipment.
So as long as your rig doesent pass the 40k mark, if it gets fried, you get all new gear.
I have a monster PowerBar 2100 and I think it does a great job - totally cleaned up the unbelievable amount of noise on my power lines. I use it for source components only - not for my power electronics.
Monster, unfortunately, suffers some of the same type of reputation as Bose - many here dismiss their products as unsuitable for high end.
I am of the opinion that power conditioning products and power cords reach their point of diminishing returns even faster than most high end equipment (as you can see in my system, I indulge in them, but modestly).
I have a Monster HTS 3500 that allowed 270 volts to pass through it before it finally burned up during a test. Just think of what would happen to your fine audio-video equipment connected to such a device. I now own a Panamax Max 5510. During the same test, it clamped at around 130 volts and withstood the same 270 volts that destroyed the Monster Cable and reset itself after the overvoltage was gone. It is expensive at 1299.99 but, it offers balanced power or isolated power with AC regeneration, component video ins and outs, outlets for subs or amps that will not limit current. It also offers adjustable delay settings for the isolated and high current outlets, a plug in lamp on the front and back panels, two voltage sense triggers and dimable meters for amps and voltage. A lot of the same features are available in the lower priced Max models. I sell both Monster Cable and Panamax by the way.
I use a HTS3600, it made a noticable improvement in the noise floor. My main amp plugs directly into the wall. Only my Pre, sources, DAC, Sub controller, TV, SAT, etc make use of the HTS3600.
I plan on trying a PS audio ultimate outlet with the main amp, I want to clean it up and give a modicum of surge protection without sacrificing dynamics.
It is my understanding that the HTS3600 will only provide about 1800 watts and 10amps give or take. Not enough, IMO, for my main amp, but plentiful for all the other stuff.
For the peace of mind (surge protection) it was worth it to me. Some power conditioning is better than none.
Did I mention it looks really cool too.
Sure there are better and if you can afford them go for it, Audio Magic comes to mind, along with PS audio, richard Grey, etc.
Its a toss up between Panamax and Monster IMO.
Hope that helps. Sounds like you have a "keeper" girlfriend, I wish mine would wanna help buy audio goodies.
Meech ,I have owned panamax ,tara labs ,adcom P/C.My good budies use PS audio and others $$ ones.I dont think there is huge diferances in the sound of these conditioners .Seems to me if its well designed should do the job .I could hear no diferance between panamax and monster or tara labs but the monster is easyer to use ,so apples to oranges.But power cords make a big diferance as well as patch cords.If your system is small maybe a PS audio ultimite outlet and PS audio wall outlet would be a good choice if not monster, panamax,adcom ace .Doest really mater.I have seen a few of my rich friends throw lots of money at AC filtration and dedicated lines, It made a diferance but it was small etc. a dedicated 20amp line.Well worth doing .Take care and happy listening
Lak, you asked the Panamax is much better then what? not What is the Panamax better than? Panamax is better than Monster Cable for line conditioning and surge protection. I have been to the seminars and seen both products tested with noise sniffers and over-voltages Isn't that what this thread is about? Read the header.
Just because you have $300 to spend doesn't mean you should waste it on inferior power conditioning, that will, probably, have a deleterious affect on your sound system. It sounds, to me, that is where you're heading. Save your $$ for an Audio Magic Stealth Mini (used) and buy yourself, for the $300, two Lat International power cords. You'll be VERY happy while you save for some killer conditioning. peace, warren
What is the Panamax better than? In your answer you stated the "Panamax is much better." Better than the "HTS3600 as a starter power conditioner" that Meech33 mentioned in his post?
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