Metrum Onyx versus Metrum Pavane

@mitch2 right on, I'm interested in what the difference is. I can't imagine its a big enough difference to justify that price jump from Onyx to Pavane 3 or Adagio

 @justjames72

I can't imagine its a big enough difference to justify that price jump from Onyx to Pavane 3 or Adagio

I currently own Jade (Onyx with volume control), Pavane L3, and Adagio, and can say that while the Jade sounds good, the other two clearly take things to another level. The choice of whether that is worth it depends on system goals, partnering equipment, and finances, but the differences are tangible. With audio its like stepping half the distance to a wall, the closer you get, the smaller the steps.....and you pay more for each smaller step.

@mitch2 I was told by someone else that even Anjo (metrum) said you wouldn't hear much of a difference unless you are a very critical listener, but that doesn't mean I don't want to try it out either way. 

Once I get some funds saved- I'm going to give the pavane a try and see what happens. 

Mitch I'm wondering if you compared the coaxial digital input versus the I2S and if so what differences did you hear when using both of those digital connections from ambre to DAC?

I know you compared aes versus I2S and mentioned I2S was slightly better but wondering if you compared RCA digital to I2S as well and if so if you can comment on differences in sound.

I currently connect to my onyx via rca and am thinking of purchasing the ambre to be able to use I2S if the sound difference is worth it.  I do not have aes output currently as well.

Thanks

In general, I like the coaxial input the least of all.  I have had good luck with USB, AES/EBU, and I2S.  The AES/EBU seems to have a little more drive and both I2S and AES/EBU seem just a tiny bit more natural-sounding to me.  Coaxial was a bit thin-sounding in comparison, although they were all pretty good-sounding.

Ok thanks Mitch for the information, much appreciated.

@mrotino 
I forgot to add, if you like your sound now, I would probably not spend the money on the Ambre.  However, the Ambre is a very capable endpoint and in my system has compared favorably with the much more expensive SOtM triad three piece ultra endpoint with which I am limited to using USB.  You will not go wrong purchasing the Ambre but with things like that I would not anticipate the move to be a "game changer."

@mitch2  what would be a game changer in terms of a streamer?

I do not have wide enough experience to answer your question but I will tell you what I can.  I went from an $8K CD player to a Mojo Audio Mac mini server then to the Antipodes DX.  I have had Antipodes upgrade the DX twice and then added an outboard end point so I run Ethernet directly to the DX and then Ethernet from the DX to the endpoint (currently the Metrum Ambre or SOtM triad since I own both) and then either USB (when using the SOtM endpoint) or AES/EBU or I2S (when using the Ambre) into my Metrum DAC.  Switching from the internal Roon endpoint in the DX to the external endpoint (either Ambre or SOtM) was a bigger change IMO than going from Ambre to SOtM.  This current set-up easily tops the $8K CD player and is the best front-end I have had (I do not use vinyl).

Removing my preamp and adding the Adagio DAC-direct actually made some difference in resolution, even though my other DAC is the very good Pavane L3.  I want to try adding the preamp back in so I received instructions as to how to remove the volume control from the preamp circuit by installing two resistors - resulting in a unity gain buffer.  Volume will be controlled by the Adagio while the SMc preamp will maybe add a little special sauce. I purchased two (expensive!) Audio Note 2W Silver Tantalum resistors to perform the bypass so I am excited to hear the result.

@mitch2 thanks for that. My setup is strictly Ambre > I2S > Onyx > XLR >McIntosh MA6600 > B&W 702S2.

I use Roon on my IMAC also

 I think it sounds damn good, but it’s always fun to wonder what I might be missing.

@mitch2 I’m in a spot now with a Schiit Gungnir Multibit and Metrum Onyx. I’ve touched on the differences on another forum ( https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/metrum-acoustics-onyx-balanced-dac-and-jade-balanced-dac-pre.5181/page-12#post-254964) but the short story is that I find Onyx lacks bass authority, slam and texture but I prefer it to the Schiit product for more-or-less everything else.

Now I’m eyeing up Pavane L3/Adagio and thinking "will the bass improve enough that it’s worth it?" Any insights would be great!

Interesting that people are comparing the Gungnir to DACs costing twice as much.  

Yep. Even still with that in mind there isn't a clear winner. Different, not better.

@msommers 
   I’m eyeing up Pavane L3/Adagio and thinking "will the bass improve enough that it’s worth it?"
I can only speak to my system where I have consistently enjoyed Metrum DACs over others such as Lampi, Aqua HiFi, and Ayre. 

To my ears, there is more depth, tonal density, drive, and refinement as you move up the ladder with Metrum.  Of these attributes, probably most noticeable to me are the improvements in tonal density and bass impact/depth.  Although I found the Jade to sound quite good when I had it in my main system for several weeks earlier this year, there was a definite improvement in the attributes listed above when I installed the Adagio.  I should let you know my main speakers only go down to about 40Hz and then pass off to a pair of large subs below that so the deep bass differences may be less noticeable to me than to those whose main speakers handle all the bass duties. 

I still own both the Pavane and the Adagio and would say the differences there are close to a wash and may depend more on the preamp you are using with the Pavane.  When I first owned the Adagio a year or so ago, I heard a richer, fuller sound from the Pavane through my unity-gain/buffer preamp than I did with the Adagio amp-direct.  I have since purchased another Adagio but found to get the sound I want I also had to play it through my buffer preamp.  I was able to remove the volume control from the signal path of my preamp and replace it with two Audio Note Silver Tantalum resistors so volume is now controlled solely from the Adagio.  For me it is the best of both worlds so I will probably be selling the Pavane soon.

Thanks for your input! I have read a few times now that the preamp section in the Metrum units (and it's exactly the same in Jade and Adagio according to Metrum) is of very high quality. I use a tube preamp so it could be more of a case of different than better here as well. In my setup now, the Gungnir can certainly deliver bass impact/slam/authority so it's capable. Though I'm sure I will always wonder how the volume section compares and end up with Adagio anyways. 

What buffer preamp do you have? What did it bring to the table that you felt Adagio->power amp was lacking?

The Metrum DACs do not have a conventional preamp section.  The potentiometer adjusts the reference voltage which in turn affects the voltage output thereby adjusting the amplifier output and the system volume.  Steve Nugent's Empirical Audio DACs do it the same way.

My preamp was custom made by Steve McCormack of SMc Audio from the TLC-1 platform but highly modified and improved so the result is very similar to his VRE-1 preamp.  Mine is set for unity gain while some of the VRE-1s utilize 6dB gain through their Lundahl transformers.  The volume control was an expensive Shallco switch with Audio Note Tantalum resistors.  Steve graciously instructed me how to unwire the Shallco switch so it is out of the circuit but two resistors were needed to replace the switch and I chose to use two very large and expensive Audio Note Silver Tantalum resistors.  I am very happy with the result and the Adagio through the buffer IMO beats the Pavane through the preamp with volume control.

Hi guys, I have read this thread with great interest, as I am looking for a DAC. I have never auditioned any Metrum products nor in fact any R2R DACs. But what I read about the natural timing, flow and micro dynamics certainly strikes a chord here.

I am currently using a relatively modest Innuos ZEN - Naim V1 DAC - Lavardin IT - Zingali Overture 2s, where the DAC is clearly the weakest link. The R2R philosophy mirrors Lavardin capabilities perfectly as far as I can see. I considered Border Patrol DAC, Shiit and some middle of the range Denafrips, but something deters me (for different reasons) from taking a punt and going for any of those. Metrum though looks quite convincing from what I have read so far.  

As my room is far from ideal and I am not an audiophile per se and just prefer listening to the music (no offence to anyone here!) I guess Pavane would be an overkill (tell me if I'm wrong), so I am looking at Onyx.

My main concern is the link to the source, as ZEN has USB output only and with the right application it sounds just stunning. Is the Onyx USB asynchronous? How good is it compared to other inputs? What will I need if the I2S input is clearly superior? I don't want to complicate things by adding another (expensive) box.  

Any thoughts are highly appreciated. And if anyone has the experience with Zingali/Lavardin, any opinions re matching my system would be great! Many thanks. 

A general comment, those looking at high end Metrum DACs should investigate the Sonnet products devised by Cees, the engineer/founder of Metrum before it was sold. I had lots of Metrum products, and the Onyx was my favorite (only used the RCA input via a baby ambre so I can’t comment on USB, sorry!) They have not been responsive of late so I worry about ongoing support (in fact Cees himself is providing “unofficial” support for those products as you will find if you search various forums!) - their stuff is bulletproof in my experience so this post isn’t meant to scare you off buying Metrum, but the Sonnet Morpheus looks like the Adagio in performance for much less money.

Got a sudden opportunity to audition Onyx and Aqua La Voce 3 on Monday. Both were excellent and sounded very similar in many respects. The tempo, articulation were spot on, both excelled in portraying rubato phrasing and sounded quite expressive, nuanced and involving. I was actually surprised how much modern DACs have improved. Bought the Aqua due to its’ slightly more optimistic delivery, and more importantly a better USB input. The fact that it’s modular and probably better supported now, also helped with my choice. Onyx though is a great VFM. Sonnet looks interesting as well. Thanks, roncagg.

I had reached out to Metrum and Anjo said they were working on new products and this was back in January...I haven't heard from him since. I know that there is clearly a sore relationship between Metrum and Cees...at least that's how Anjo put it. He wasn't happy at all.

Also with Onyx- I would only use the AES or I2S to hook up to streamer. I wonder if your experience would have been better if you could have used either option.

From the website, it looks as though Metrum has closed shop. I do not at all regret owning the Pavane L3 however - transient precision, body, raw drive (I feel like I gained another octave), and resolution readily exceed the following DACs in my system: Sonnet Morpheus, Lampizator Atlantic TRP, PS Audio Directsream, Chord Qutest. Impressed is not the right word. It makes my T+A turntable jealous, and I am speechless. 

Had an Onyx, have a Morpheus currently sitting in customs. 

What made you like the L3 more than Morpheus? I also had a PS Audio DirectStream Jr and really enjoyed it, but the preamp section was just horrible and very flat when compared to a proper preamp. Have heard Metrum/Sonnets preamp to be much better.

Regarding Gungnir vs Onyx. 
I used to own an Gungnir Multibit and now I own an Onyx. 
My opinion is that if I had to use the Gungnir I would not bother with being an audiophile. I would sell my HD800 and just quit the hobby. That's how night and day the differences are with that particular headphone. 
As far as I'm concerned, it may be twice the price but it's worth every penny and more. The improvements are priceless. 
Of course this is just my subjective opinion with one particular headphone. 

I did try the Pavane before I bought the Onyx so I knew it would be good because the Pavane was amazing. I never got the chance to test the Onyx against a Pavane L1 so I have no way to gauge the differences. My instinct is that the Pavane is slightly better even though I used Pavane solely with USB (via an ifi micro usb3) and I'm using the Onyx with an OCC Silver AES cable.