McIntosh MC225 questions


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These amps are my favorite. I have two in monobloc mode. A C-41 is the pre, Tannoy DC3 speakers, and Ridge Street audio cabling. Sources: a VPI TT, & a MacMini to Ultra Fi USB DAC (a very satisfying combination especially with ripped CDs into AIFF).

I have some questions for experienced users:

Tubes:

Other than the 7591 power tubes (I'm using matched EHs right now), from your audio point of view which/what other of the amplifier tubes reveal a significant difference when tube-rolled: the two phase inverter tubes: the 12au7's?; the one voltage amplifer tube: the 12AX7?; the two drive amplifer tubes: the 12BH7s? I have NOS RCA blackplates in there mostly (as I recall).

If in your experience some or all made a difference, what in your experience in your system was that difference and what tubes did you settle on?

I've changed the fuses (HiFi Tuning), ok but nothing to get excited about; changed the power cables (cryoparts IEC adapters) to IEC Kubala-Sosna Fasicinations (significant difference in clarity and dynamics over-all); and updated (Terry DeWick) the caps, etc. as per his recommendations.

Generally, this system is the soul-satisfying system!

Thanks for your points of view,

:) listening,

Ed

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istanbulu
I also have two Mc225's in mono mode. For tube rolling the 12ax7 is the most noticeable change from tube to tube. The 12au7 less significant but you will notice. I did not notice a change with the 12bh7's but I did not try to roll from grey plate to black plate. I think you would hear differences between the two.

I've rolled 1950's long plate mullard 12ax7 with 1960's bugle boys and smooth plate tele's and I seem to like the teles. But they all have their strong points and make for some interesting listening experiences. You really get to know you equipment
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Hi Apachef1... what was it you noticed or preferred about the smooth plate tele 12ax7?

:) listening,

Ed
More life like vocals and 3d sound staging. The amperex and mullard were stronger in the bass and more of a forward midrange presentation. Tele's has much smoother highs. These are very small differences and will only be noticed if you have very revealing speakers.
I put tele's 12au7 and 12ax7 in for my tube rolling. i think once you are happy with a certain 12ax7 replace the 12au7 tubes with that same brand and plate constuction. it will enhance the sound a little more.
Mixing the brands gets interesting and it all becomes a matter of what you like. I do find myself changing it up every six months or so but always seem to go back to the tele smooth plates
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thanks Apachef1... I nabbed a couple of 12ax7 Mullard 4004s out of another preamp (has two sets, one for high gain, the other for phono... took the phono set out) and put them in the two MC225s... what a surprise... I'd say the result was exactly as you described in your post above... stronger bass and more forward midrange (including more air and pointpoint imaging in the highs).

thanks... have a great Thanksgiving...

:) listening,

Ed

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Use a Ram Lab matched set of Tungsrams. Also like the Teles but they tend to be a little darker. Use Amperex 12ax7s in my other amps but have yet to try them in this circuit.
Using a nice quad of RCA 7591s makes a big difference. Tried the EHs but was a little disappointed, lost a lot of the sweetness.
Heard all of the NOS 7591s were made by RCA?
Actually all 7591 were made by westinghouse. They created this obscure tube. They may have contracted RCA to produce the tube but its a WH tube

My 2-225's have 8 WH 7591 black solid base hope they last my life time they are that good just like your RCA

As for the EH you tried they burn a little cooler than the old stock. You need to make a cap value change to accomidate the EH or they tend to glow bluish and burn up
Not sure what the values are but the JJ tubes are very tempermental with the MC225
Made the cap change alas no change in sound. The RCAs(Westinghouse) went back into action and still remain.
I don't own any new production tubes. Always been happy with old stock used or new The NOS 7591 tubes will last a lifetime just as long as they are biased properly.

It's my first time here so I don't know if I'm in the right place.  Probably not, since it says to post a response, but here goes.  

I am trying to refurbish my mc225. It's been around the block a few times, being hauled around Texas where I worked until retirement, and in the studio and on the road. Most of the voltages are within 10%.  In fact, both plates of the 7025 which is used in the place of the circuit's 12AX7, are at 116 volts, which is only .8% high.  The -21 volt grid biases rage from -20.8 to -20.9 volts, which puts it within an average 1% tolerance.  Other plates are higher than called for.  The V4 and V5 12BH7 plates are supposed to be 285 volts, but are 315 and  326 volts respectively, making their average 12% high.  The plates on the 12AU7s max out at 10% high and the plates on the 7591 are within 7% as well as the 4-8 screen voltages.

The resistances on pins 2 of the 12AU7s averaged 32% low. Both plate resistances on the 7025 were 134K, which is 26% low.  The maximum plate resistances on the 12AU7s after capacitor settling were within 1% as were the pin 6 voltages. The average resistance of all 4 12BH7 plates was within 5%. The average resistances for the 7591 plates were 5% high and pins 4 and 8 average was 3% high. The average resistance for pin 5 on the 7591s was .8% high.

For comparison, the resistance (not impedance) of the 70V leads of both output transformers were measured and found to be within 10% of each other.  The 4, 8, and 16 ohm lines were also checked and found to be identical.

The problem shows itself with the outputs.  A 1KHZ squarewave with a 10 ohm 25-watt resistor on each 8 ohm output produces only 5 volts peak to peak on the scope.  It's a good, sharp square wave, but at that level, it should be.  The resistors used to get warm in the good old days.  Less than one watt rms might work just fine for some headphones but is pretty lousy for speakers.  The other clue is that with no signal pins 5 of the 7591s range from .2 to .67 volts with an average of only .385 volts for all 4 when there should be .8 volts at pin 5 of each.

I have replaced all of the filter capacitors, along with all components of the bias circuits and changed the chokes to 68 ohm resistors, and replaced input and inter-stage coupling capacitors and the two cathode capacitors for the 7025.  I have also tested the 7591 pin resistances for shorts or opens and found none.

In short, help!  It's obvious I'm missing something.  I feel like I did many years ago when I was a technician for a company in Odessa, Texas many years ago.  I would be going nuts working on a mini computer and my boss Woody would come back, touch a thing or two, and the thing would start working.  He would note that his fingers never left his hands.  Is there another Woody in the house?

I want to sell this thing I used to like on eBay to raise money for a school fund for the kids of the kids I have had in ministry for the last 14 years.  All I need is $2200.00 which a 79-year-old living on Social Security just can't do.