Magnepan LRS+ resistors on the tweeters… which?

@toddalin I thought that we must stick to 10W resistors!
Anyway, I can’t find the Mills in Europe and I am not willing to pay $60+ on shipping and customs alone if I buy abroad. Here I have available the mentioned Mundorf, Duelund, Path Audio, Ohmite, Jantzen, Amtrans… but still is difficult to get a 10W 1 to 2 Ohm resistor in most brands, usually not in stock.

@pureclarity, I have several amps and cables to work with, and I have tried almost every combination.

The two that I have used the most are:

- Naim Nac 122x / Flatcap 2x / Nap 150x with Naim Nac A5 cables

- Vincent SV-237MK with Van Damme L-OFC 4mm cables

You are right about the importance of both amps and cables, but I tend to think that the treble presence (too much of it) is a trade mark of Magnepans in general, and they know it to fit a way to reduce it by the use of resistors.

What amp are you using and what cables?

@pureclarity I also have a Belles Soloist 1 integrated amp and it is one of the less successful combinations in my system. The sound is too stressed, with no sense of power and body - compared with the Vincent or the Naim combo. Also the Belles gets too hot.

My goal is to tame the highs on the LRS+ without any changes, just by adjusting the position in the room and playing with the resistors.

The design of Magnepans (that comes from the factory) can be improved, and it is very easy to point things that can be improved on the crossover, binding posts, fuse holder, etc… but there are many user that have them playing great without any changes to those parts. So that is my benchmark - the stock LRS+ - and is that speaker that I want to improve in a “passive” way.

What is you Belles model and what speaker cables are you using?

@waytoomuchstuff, thanks for the suggestions, but like I say in my previous post, I just want to work on the stock LRS+. I am confident that I can get good results with the right:

- resistor

- speaker cable and amp

- in room positioning 

@daveteauk thanks for your input.

First about the Naim: I completely disagree. All components can be “bad sounding” if the synergy isn’t there in the first place, The Nac122x is a wonderful piece and must be used with the Flatcap 2x for the best results. One example of a mismatch: my Belles Soloist 1 integrated is wonderful with the Totem Model 1 speakers (another demanding speaker) and is completely wrong with the LRS+. Is is a cheap garbage piece? Absolutely not.
The Naim combo give me amazing results with the Totem, Kef LS50, Duevel Planets, Quad 11L and it is the most successful amp (in my lot) with the LRS+.

The 1,5 Ohm Mundorf resistor improved the treble significantly. Now I am readjusting the positioning…

Oh, and my dedicated listening room is professionally treated by Vicoustic.

@yyzsantabarbara I have been struggling with the stock stands (very annoying little things) so I have decided to design and built my own stands.

A layer os felt is between the speakers and the vertical plates and some felt round adhesive pads are on the feet.
The height is exactly what Magnepan suggests.

So no problem in this department, because the sound improvement is immediate… but I continue to find the treble output level too high for my taste.

@daveteauk , I have several components of different brands and I didn’t consider me a fanboy of any of them, or all the numerous brands that I had for the past 35 years of audiophileness… Just happen to like this particular Naim combo in some system combinations, and other Naim components in others systems. Not every time I have been swept by Naim gear.

Note: I think that I never classified as garbage any of the many components that didn’t gel with any of my systems. Perhaps I am just lucky…

But like I said before, I have tried the LRS+ with 5 different amps so far… and the treble level, in the general balance, was too high FOR ME. In the OP I have shared my experiences and put some questions on this subject. In any case I stated that the LRS+ are less than great, apart from the mentioned “problem”. 
Spec wise and by experience, all of the amps used were well capable to drive a 4 Ohm / 85db speaker, but on the other hand the LRS+ are demanding for more…

As for the resistors, I have reading about mixed results (not only in this forum), some like them some don’t. My question to those who find the resistors beneficial is: what resistors, value and quality?

I am “listening” to all opinions (certainties) about the resistors, but because it is a feature incorporated in the speakers design (from the beginning) it makes sense to me to explore that, especially with parts better than the ones supplied. If it is really a foolish thing to do (meaning: certified way to kill the sound quality) so why do Magnepan designers insist on offer that feature, even in the top models?

To me is another part of the crossover, but just one that we can change the value.

More extreme users defend that he crossover itself and the back plate (fuses, fuse holder, metal magnetic bidding posts, shunt, cables) are total rubbish and we all should dismantle the all thing and… well you know… Magnepans are great but only after that amount of work.

Food for thought…

@pureclarity,

yes, all the ground floor in my house is thick poured concrete.

yes, I have a large thick rug between me and the speakers.

yes, my dedicated room is acoustically treated (walls and ceiling) and it is very well balanced. All my other speakers sound great.

Thanks to both for your time and valuable inputs.

@yyzsantabarbara those two amps must be great with the LRS+. In a natural and logic way I am trying to work with the 5 amps that I have available before any thoughts on anything else. The Coda and Sanders are not only very interesting but also expensive and unavailable in Europe.

I bought the LRS+ sure that the Vincent SV-237MK (that drives everything) would pair well with them… and it is ok but there is that treble level issue. 

My second choice was the Rogue Sphinx, referred by some as a good match… but there was that treble again, irritating high.

It was not about treble quality (I saw that could obviously improve with burn-in) but it was the high level, something that I perceived to be within the speakers character.

At that point (with more or less 100 hours) I could:

1 - try the resistors, although not the stock ones, spending 50 euros.

2 - buy another amp, spending at least 750 euros on a used power amp.

The first choice was an easy one :)

Now, after about 250 hours, with the 1,5 Ohm Mundorf resistors that did reduced effectively the treble level and didn’t affect the sound quality, is natural that my questions are about the resistors, to learn from other’s experiences and to see if I can get even better results.

@gbmcleod my LRS+ have about 250 hours on them.
Regarding the treble high level, in my experience, like I have mentioned in the previous post, that kind of thing is more a characteristic of the design and not something that can be fix with break in. The quality yes, the high level I don’t think so.

Of course, there are some (many?) users that don’t share my experience about the speaker’s balance / treble high level. Perhaps they are less sensitive, perhaps they already had a suitable high current/ power amp, perhaps a bigger room, etc. 

But what is clear to me is that if that tuning of the treble is included in the design, then it must be a real thing, addressed in the design process.

@toddalin, thanks a lot for the suggestions and detailed information.

Perhaps I can buy the Mills resistors in the UK :)

@delfincek thanks for the suggestions.

I few weeks ago I have already contacted Hifi Collective UK and now have the full price of the Mills, including custom taxes. Meanwhile, I already have 1R, 1R5 and 2R2 Mundorf 10W resistors to try… the 1R5 is doing such a good job smoothing the treble that I am proceeding with the room positioning set-up… until my mind blow up!…

As for AliExpress, well don’t mind me saying but that is a route I don’t want to take, for many reasons. Those speaker cables, for example, are the type of product that I fail to be interested: a copy of the Nordost. I feel that is the looks that they are after without having the materials and technology… Sure, the price of the original is absurd, not only to my financial capacity, but in general, but some way it kind of reflects the R&D, technology and materials used, I can’t believe that someone offered something similar at 1/20 of the price…

I am not saying that they sound bad (or good), just that I can’t invest in that kind of product.

Also I am uncomfortable to bypass the fuse. Sure, it must do more harm than good but it is there for a purpose: safety. I have bought an AMR fuse designed especially for the Magnepan, but I will only tested after finding the correct LRS+ position in the room.

One interesting thing about speaker cables: when looking inside some good high current amplifiers (Plinius, Perreaux, Muse) we can find the same type of cable design - connecting the binding posts to the main board - of the Van Damme L-OFC 4mm that I use. That makes me stick with it :)

Currently, I have the feeling that I am in a middle of something with the LRS+… on one side there is the speaker positioning and on the other the amplification.
In some degree, the evaluation of one is connected with the other.

The Rogue RP-1 / NAD C275 BEE pre-power combo is performing very well and led to a new position of the speakers that finally I am getting a good depth and soundstage… but the treble continues a bit hard and compressed on some recordings.
With gentle acoustic music I am in heaven. 
With busy recordings with brass instruments (for example) it is not pleasant at all.

Also the LRS+ are really “power sponges” on some recordings, with the volume knob seeing untraveled territory… uff

Note: the speakers are on aftermarket stands, more or less 60cm from the side walls, 130cm from the back, toe-in pointing behind my head and tweeters on the outside. Treble resistor Mundorf M-Resist Classic10w 1,5 ohm.
Speaker and interconnect cables are Straightwire Encore.

Finally I have found the perfect partner for the LRS+: the Copland CSA70 integrated amplifier.
Spec wise it kind of defies logic, comparing to what most people (and myself) thought that was needed to feed the little Maggies, but it is a revelation!
This amp totally transformed the LRS+ and solved all treble issues. True, I still have the 10w 1,5 ohm resistor in place (too lazy to remove it?) but the sound is beautifully balanced, free from any sibilance or aggressiveness.

Absolutely every aspect of the sound gave a gigantic step forward in quality, especially the soundstage, the sense of transparency and bass delivery. No subwoofer needed in my 18 sq meter room. The LRS+ are indeed a miracle!

This is the entry level from the danish brand and can deliver 140w / 4 ohm, but most importantly it is designed to handle loads up to 1 ohm! Brilliant stuff.

I only wonder what the CSA150 could bring to the table… but I happy with the CSA70 and my bank account too, so case closed :)

More than the treble issues of before, now completely fixed, to my absolute surprise it is the bass that is puzzling me, in a positive way.
With the Copland CSA70 the LRS+ is beautifully balanced with a total engaging and satisfying bass output: there is meat on the bones for sure, and no subwoofer is needed.