After all this I settled on loading at 320ohms. I will try that Moonglum. |
Tzh21y, FWIW, I tried nylon washers with the Delos. (Currently using titanium).
My main gripe with them is that they can be too “squishy” and uncertain. With stainless steel or titanium I can set cartridge position and do the final tightening within seconds. Nylon required a very slow and painstaking tightening procedure which involved tightening each screw alternately by as little as 1 or 2 degrees at a time.
Also found the nylon could easily be displaced off ideal alignment e.g. by removing replacing stylus guards or even by the tightening process itself.
As an example it wasn’t uncommon for the cartridge position to be found to drift by 0.2mm (when routinely tightening screws) when the wand was re-checked on the jig. Very easy to see. This is never the case with steel or other metal washers.
Positive aspects of nylon is that it protects the headshell veneer/finish and may offer some degree of damping (I.e. used strictly on top of the head shell, never between cartridge and head shell ;)
Sonically, there isn’t a world of difference IMO. Overall I prefer metal washers but others may disagree.
Hope this helps... |
The arche headshell comes with Brass screws which seem to be too heavy. |
I use the Soundsmith EZ screws, comes with different weights so you have to experiment as it will affect mass and the position of your counterweight.
I found the right combination giving me an excellent RF results. I also track at 1.75g as this is where Lyra designed the cart to perform best regarding their New Angle design. |
Final configuration lol: Boston audio Mat with Delos and Clearaudio silver wires AC008 Headshell cable se. sounds great. Arche headshell with Lyra screws and nylon washers. Tracking between 1.74 and 1.75. |
Back to the Boston audio mat. "The Mat" |
Update: Using Achromat with Delos and Clearaudio silver wires AC008 Headshell cable se. sounds great. |
I bet the Delos would be great on the Gyro SE |
Cadenza Bronze. Have you ever listened to any of the nagaoka moving magnets? they are supposed to be very good and reasonable.
What are you hearing that you like better that the Gyro SE? The Gyro SE is a great table. I never heard an SME 10 just the 20. |
@tzh21y Why would you get the Bronze instead of the legendary amazing incredible 2M Black?
I will have my hand on Delos in the near future for a project, I'll get a chance to really test it.
SME Model 10 finally showed up and is breaking in. Overall better than Gyro SE. But these are just first impressions.
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basement- the one thing I like most about the Lyra, is the performance on old vinyl, just incredible. I can listen to almost all my older records and thoroughly enjoy them whereas the newer ones sometime sound a bit overdone with this cartridge. I can always put the Glider on on for those records. |
I ended up loading at 160 ohms, Boston Audio Mat, 1.75 Grams is where it needs to be, Anti-Skate just above 1. The Orsonic DS-200G disc stabilizer sounds the best with this setup and I had the stillpoints LPI, did not like certain things it did on the 1200G. I also have the project puck, use it once in a while. The Achromat and the Lyra Delos work the best as far as being able to get the VTA right. Its the right height but is resonant at certain frequencies that I do not care for but most of the time sounds fine. The Boston Audio Mat sounds the best, just wish it was a bit thicker and it would be perfect. I am using the Ortofon LH-4000 with the Delos and took the headshell leads off of the LH-6000 and put them on the LH-4000. Sounds great. My cartridge took well over 100 hours to run in which was disappointing. My suggestion to anyone with a Delos is be patient. It is the best tracking cartridge I have ever owned or heard along with other Lyras, just incredible control in grooves. I have the VTA set as low as it will go. YMMV but this has been my experience with the Delos and 1200G. Heard a Ortofon Bronze with the 1200g it sounded very good, not as forward sounding but it definitely has its virtues. I really liked that combination very much. |
Cool thread, like hearing about all the fun tweaking in and such. Miss those days.
Just thought I might chime in to mention a possible oversight: If you are hearing differences between "old" records and new ones, very likely it's the VTA setup. That is to say, often newer or different pressings like a different VTA. Not so much the thickness of the record, but rather the way the record is pressed.
Back when I had my Clavis DC and Lydian, I found there were certain groups of records that simply called for a different VTA to sound optimal. Also, they were VERY sensitive to the rest of the setup, as in the overhang and such.
They always sounded great, but I found getting them set up really, really well got things into another level- maybe a level nothing else could match. |
The Delos is a "truth teller" in that if you don't like it, in many cases its because its not setup correctly. The truth being you need some help with it.
Delos is super finicky on setup especially VTA and azimuth, it has to be pretty much perfect. Lyra designs their carts for a specific setup and loading.
When I bought the Foz meter that was amazing, but more than anything the loading is key. Too many user rely on 100 ohms, not good for the Delos, and you need to use a low cap cable, preferably under 100pF/mt, so you can load it in the 300-500 ohms range....Once all this is done it will sing like a songbird......and has plenty of low end to shake walls.
Mine took about 30 hours once it was dialed in......Be sure you are at 1.75g also. |
About 50 hours in with fabulous setup by Robert at Stereo Unlimited !
liquid, grace and ease so far..... no desire to mess around with it.....
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nkonor, I am sure it will sound amazing. the 1200g is amongst very few turntables Ive heard that just does so many things right and gets better after considerable breakin say 200 hours or so. It really is an amazing value. one of the best out there. |
@tzh21y you were right. I am at 300 ohms. much better. had it at 475, too bright. might try 320.
Good to hear you tried loading higher. Around 250- 300 range seems to be the sweet spot for Delos. I also found 500ohms a bit high in my ss phono. You can generally load higher in tube phono stages. |
tzh21y,
Heading home from St Paul. Picked up the Technics SL1200G that Ralph modded with a Triplanar Classic SE tonearm and mounted my Lyra Kleos cartridge.
About 4-5 more hours to home.
Can hardly wait to hear it in my system. They did a stunning job. |
I have two Delos and have enjoyed them on a VPI Aries for several years. I have since gravitated to Nagaoka MI cartridges simply because they produce more dynamics and heft. The highs are fine and spacial content is superior to the Delos. I can feel the drums even at low levels. I also had a Benz Glider and Koetsu Urushi for a while but yawn, ultimately got bored. Grados, some vintage Pickering MIs and Nagaokas are now my cartridges of choice. The Ortofon Black I rarely listen to; it is etched sounding and harsh. |
I was not expecting it to sound this way loading it higher. |
you were right. I am at 300 ohms. much better. had it at 475, too bright. might try 320. |
"Once you get to know your digital rig I think it’s the quickest, most dependable means of assessing the overall tonality of your analog rig. "
Terrific advice Thom!
"Personally, loading any Lyra down to 65ohms is killing it. It ius supposed to be loaded much higher."
Agree totally downunder.
However, it’s not just the cartridge that determines loading, but the phonostage too! Didn’t like my Lyra Etna loaded any less (numerically) than about 300 ohms or so on my modded Pass Xono. Started to become too thin sounding. On my ARC REF10 phono preamp, 1K is almost perfect. 47K (no loading) is still very listenable.
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I will try that. when I load higher I do not have as much control with the volume. I like a gradual increase, not just 1 click. thats one of the reasons I have used lower output moving coils in the past |
personally, loading any Lyra down to 65ohms is killing it. It ius supposed to be loaded much higher. |
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Oh no. Is it not sounding good again?
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the phenomena with the battery power is excellent |
Update: loading down from 100 to 65 ohms on pass labs Xono. using smaller Lyra screws. Did not like the larger ones. |
i ordered a Delos and Phenomena - Nova to run with my Basis 1400
will let you know how it sounds....vs the Grado Ref Sonata 2
last time I heard this cartridge was on a Bardo with factory arm and it was quite well balanced..... |
The boston audio design mat is great as and the Funk firm is ok as well. the funk firm is a little thicker so it allows more VTA adjustablility. I wish the Boston audio mat was a little thicker for the Lyra. |
Nkonor - i hope your kleos does not take as long to run in as the delos. it was really frustrating to say the least but it sounds great now. Don't give up on it. |
the project puck is decent. I am enjoying the Orsonic clamp. it seems to like my setup. |
I also will use the HRS , ADL-B record weight. Technics Rep. told me 2lb max. |
tzh21y,
We will see / hear soon. I have packed the Kleos and will ship to Ralph tomorrow.
tzh, have you looked at the Ortofon acrylic mat? That’s what I will have on the modded Technics |
I like acrylic better too. The funk firm is the right height at the moment. If I could find a good acrylic mat I would snap it up.
Nkonor- you are right, it is |
That Funk Firm mat is nothing more than PVC foam sheet. Available at any hardware store or sign store for pennies. And obviously comes in the same colors Funk Firm uses.
When it comes to plastic mats, I like acrylic better. Any used laserdisc can be used.
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I find I must amend my prior post and emphatically agree with those who have reminded us of the importance of matching cartridges to tonearms. Since my prior post I have acquired and had a total rehab done on a Garrard 301. I mounted an Ortofon TA-110 and installed my Delos. Previously I had the Delos on my VPI HW19 with ET II arm. On the VPI/ET rig I found the Delos slightly bright and etched. On my Garrard/Ortofon rig it is a completely different cartridge. Still very extended but with a much richer midrange and far greater sense of air and space. Gone is the brightness.
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tzh21y,
Happy that you’re still experimenting with your TT. I was at Axpona on Saturday. In the Technics room, they were trying the MoFo record weight.
I meet Ralph Karsten and Tri Mai. I did order a SL1200G and had it sent to them. Tri has finished my Triplanar arm and I think Ralph needs me to send my Lyra Kleos. He should have the modded Technics done soon.
I can hardly wait to get it in my system. I still think it will be a giant killer. |
Update: moved on from Stillpoints LP1 and I am currently using the Orsonic DS-200g disc stablizer. works great wth the 1200G. I am going back and forth with mats between Boston Audio Design mat and Funk Firm. I am now starting to thing that the Funk Firm with the Orsonic is just incredible. Just sayin..... |
I may have been a combination of the table that is new and the Delos as well being new. Crazy... sounds just great. I am not sure, given the amount of time it took I would recommend it to somebody who puts 100 hours on a cartridge in 6 months. they would get frustrated. Patience is a virtue they say. Its sound just as good as the Ortofon bronze now. Different but as good at least as the bronze. The thing is I heard a bronze with 10 hours on it and it sounded great already. |
(Apologies for the android phone keypad keyclick errors eg "bright" emerges as "brught" ;) |
I find it difficult to accept the claim that JC engineered the Delos to sound "bright". In fact in another thread he states he was prioritising dynamics, resolution and musical flow. I didn't see the word " brught" being mentioned.
Further to this, it could be argued that most enthusiasts use SS amps rather than tube. Even the most "tubey" SS amps are nowhere near as "warm" as valves IME so that would be unhelpful if this was indeed the designers intent.
Even at extremely low humidity the Delos doesn't sound unnaturally bright (speaking in my capacity as Stat user).
It does indeed sound truthful IMO.
I do not appreciate over-bright systems or unnatural/exaggerated sibilants.
For me, the Delos was exemplary from day 1, even during burn-in.
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Dear Tzh21y,
Consider the possibilty that optimal operating conditions suffer from deviation i.e. although many folk are happy to regulate t to 22 degrees C, less attention is paid to humidity. With any cart, the difference between low & high H is like chalk & cheese.
Kind regards,
Bill |
Don't worry, it will suck tomorrow. |
Final verdict:
I am keeping the Delos. It sounds incredible all of a sudden. Wow. this one took a while but I am happy. Maybe it was partially the table still breaking in but wow. sounds incredible. |
Update. The Delos is sounding pretty good. settling down. I still do not think it should take this long, borderline ridiculous. One must have a lot of patience for this cartridge unless its just my copy. not sure most people want shrill for 150 hours from their new cartridge. It does sound good now but geez. |
I am finding that there is a learning curve with this table. The VTA increments have thrown me off somewhat. The Delos seems to be very fussy with VTA. Even a minute increase or decrease effects sound a lot. It is sounding pretty good right now. i know, I go back and forth, learning this table and cartridge. |
It sounds like the Delos is definitely not working for you, so time to move it on. While lots of people love it, it's not for everyone.
The Cadenza Bronze should be a much more neutral cartridge than the Delos. I had a Cadenza Black and preferred it to the Delos, and it was the best tracking cartridge I have ever used. It can, however, be a little bland on some arms. The Bronze is said to be a bit warmer so may work well.
Another cartridge to consider around the same price is the Shelter 501 Mk III. This is a very balanced and musical cartridge. I preferred this to the Cadenza Black and some much more expensive cartridges, and could easily live with this as my only cartridge.
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I have a great dealer that I purchased the table from. He said he would let me hear a ortofon cadenza bronze on my system to see if it has better synergy. He thinks its not totally run in yet. well how long...... lol. The lyra makes me want to back my chair up. somewhat shouty. on older records, not at all. Go figure |
@tzh21y I hear ya. I sold my Delos with 80 hours on it for only $950. The boosted treble just didn't do it for me. And I'm running OCC copper ICs. |
