I heard an Ortofon Black some time ago. It did sound very good. |
My system is as follows
Merlin loudspeakers cardas golden reference speaker cables
MC275
Technics 1200G
Pass labs X1 and Xono
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I am going back and forth between my Benz Ref s and the Delos. Both are great cartridges in their own right. Let me know how the SME works out for you. Did you listen to the 15? If so, what did you think was the difference? I still like that michell table. What arm are you using on it? |
The older recordings sound great, better than they ever have. I have never had a cartridge track like this one. My old vinyl sounds new. I am thinking that it is just so revealing that newer recordings are just really overdone somehow. When I put on an old living stereo, it just sounds so analog, beautiful. when I listen to a reissue, it sounds very Hi Fi'ish to my ears at least. Maybe I need a different type of cartridge for these as I do have two Benz the Glider and a Ref wood body but they just do not trck like this one. Not even close. |
Where did you get the Van den Hul? i agree the Benz and the Lyra are polar opposites. I have been told that the Lyra needs well over 100 hours to settle down. Thats a lot. The Benz works well with newer recordings and the Lyra works really well with older vinyl, especially from the golden age. The thing with the Lyra is it just about tracks anything perfectly. Old records I thought were worn are obviously not. I really love the sound of the benz but they just do not track very well on many recordings IME but they can sound just wonderful.
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The SME 20 is very good no doubt |
It will be interesting to hear your comparison to the Michell. I really think that table can be just magical. |
Lewm, That is exactly correct. My take is the Lyra just is not very rolled off. It is very extended and it seems as though older recordings were so well recorded that they are so revealing through the Lyra and the Benz tends to veil in comparison. On more recent hotter reissues, the benz sounds better at the expense of mistracking sometimes in comparison to the Lyra which really just tracks just about anything with ease. I just hope it melows a little bit more as it is still a bit edgy but also only has about fifty hours or so on it. |
I can only go by what I am told as my friend has had a Delos and it sounds fantastic in his system. He said it takes a while for the Lyra to settle in. The dealer said the same thing. One thing I know is it is definitely not rolled off thats for sure. Older recordings on six eye, living stereo, Mercurys, Londons do not sound bright at all. They sound amazing to say the least. They sound spooky real through the Delos. I still think it will settle in somewhat but after 50 hours I think I am clearly starting to hear the personality of this cartridge on my system. If I had a collection of primarily newer releases, the Delos would not be my first choice. I may look into some of the more neutral cartridges mentioned in this thread. |
The bass is fine. It was not originally. The lower midrange is still not there. Hoping it gets a little better. I am loading at 100 ohms. Had it at 91 at first but it did not sound right. 100 seems like a good starting point
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How does the Art 9 do with classical? |
When I listen to the Lyra, it makes me think that many recent recordings, and recent reissues(not all) are purposely remastered somewhat hot knowing that most cartridges are in fact rolled off. I personally have not heard many cartridges with this kind of extension in my life. Cartridges like this can really dig so much out of older original issue recordings. Its quite amazing. I honestly cannot see myself wanting to listen to my living stereos, mercurys, deccas, columbias, etc. with anything but this cartridge. I could not fully appreciate what was on these records with my older cartridges, mainly benz like I can with this one. The benz can sound very pleasing with orchestral reissues but just cannot track like this one. I have never heard a cartridge track like this one ever. The other cartridge that was close was a Denon. |
Oh My gosh. Something just happened. This is quite amazing. Now everything sounds amazing. The lower mids just filled in appropriately. Just like that. By far the best cartridge I have ever heard. |
Okay, I might have been a little over excited. It is definitely ONE of the best cartridges I have ever heard. |
Pass Labs Xono. loading at 250 ohms. 100 sounds fine as well. |
The only thing I changed were the screws. I put the longer ones in. I do not thing it was that. I just think it is still running in. It sounds fabulous to say the least. |
I am using JPS Labd Superconductor from amp to preamp, silver wiring from turntable to preamp to phono preamp and Cardas golden reference from amp to merlins as advised by the late Bobby Palkovic. |
I am also noticing that the Delos likes silver wiring. I installed some silver headshell wire and it has made a difference for the better. To these ears at least |
I may try a Jelco (sumiko hs12 variant) as well |
Actually what I have found with the Delos is it can be a little fussy with setup. I settled on the stock headshell with the 1200g and lyra screws and nylon washers. Sounds wonderful. It does not sound overly pronounced in the upper mids anymore. I was using the ortofon LH 6000 headshell and it seems pretty much made for the cadenza cartridge. maybe I will get one of those too. I was having a hard time getting the right screw compliment for that headshell. I was getting terrible resonances in the upper mids due to the screws not working in that headshell. It sounds great on the 1200G stock headshell with boston audio design mat and Stillpoints LPI. |
update: The longer i listen the more fatigue I get. I have tried the stock headshell, lh 6000 Ortofon, lh 4000 Ortofon. With each of the ortofons, I get terrible bass artifacts and when I use the stock headshell, that goes away but it is just too bright. I am thinking the Delos is a mistake with the 1200G table. It seems like the delos is a high energy cartridge that requires a very high mass arm to get the best out of it. think I will be selling it. Somebody will be getting a practically brand new cartridge for a lot less than retail. live and learn I guess. The headshells weigh almost 15 grams, 13 grams, and 7 grams. I doubt a 12 grams headshell will make much of a difference. I am wondering about the effective mass of the arm on the 1200g. they say 12 grams but I doubt it. I hooked up my scout with the Lyra and I did not get the resonance i did with the stock arm on the 1200G. I believe the effective mass of the 1200G is far less than 12 grams. |
not blaming the cartridge. just do not think it is a good match for the arm. oh well, maybe tomorrow it will sound better. lol |
or maybe my system. I have small monitors and that might be the problem. I have small merlin monitors and the Lyra is just a little tipped towards the treble. Maybe a ortofon cadenza may be a better match
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power cord is gutwire which was an improvement, I am using pure silver interconnects from table to phonostage, and phonostage to preamp. The stillpoints has its good points. It may be me just getting used to this table. I am not liking the delos on it in my setup. The benz ref s sounds fine. |
I honestly think its a great table, the delos is just not my cup of tea. |
I have used benz micro cartridges in the past and heard the delos at a friends house and was impressed. However, he has a zeta arm that may be better suited for this cartridge. I read on a thread that technics was using the delos on their 1200gae when they first released it. so i thought it was a match. it does not quite have 100 hours on it yet but I do not see it filling ou in the lower mids much. it is also very forward sounding on this table, that is something I am not used to as real live music does not sound that way and i attend a lot of concerts with symphony orchestras. |
what you heard is what I heard in demo. the silver interconnects may have some influence. I really think that there is nothing wrong with the delos on this table. It is just not the sound I prefer. it is a very detailed sound. The table has a very accurate sound with a slight hint of warmth. the 1200g is very neutral sounding. The Stillpoints LPI really enhances focus, sometimes too much. soemtimes i like to listen with it, sometimes without it. The Lyra sounds better on the VPI. The Benz sounds better on the Technics. Its just that the benz is not a good tracking cartridge. at least not in my experience. It can be siblant but the things it does right I really like. It makes classical sound like the real thing. if you go to concerts you will know what I mean. The Lyra does very well with older recordings which makes it a difficult thing unless I want 2 cartridges for different things.
The headshells have made a significant difference in sound. some things sound better, some things do not. the heavier you go, the more bass and less air in upper treble. The stock headshell seems to be the best so far. The Lyra seems to need more effective mass, more weight, a heavier arm to sound its best imho. The benzs are more medium compliance and sound good. The ortofon cadenzas have lower compliance, but are heavier than the Lyra so they might work pretty well. |
I have a great dealer that I purchased the table from. He said he would let me hear a ortofon cadenza bronze on my system to see if it has better synergy. He thinks its not totally run in yet. well how long...... lol. The lyra makes me want to back my chair up. somewhat shouty. on older records, not at all. Go figure |
I am finding that there is a learning curve with this table. The VTA increments have thrown me off somewhat. The Delos seems to be very fussy with VTA. Even a minute increase or decrease effects sound a lot. It is sounding pretty good right now. i know, I go back and forth, learning this table and cartridge. |
Final verdict:
I am keeping the Delos. It sounds incredible all of a sudden. Wow. this one took a while but I am happy. Maybe it was partially the table still breaking in but wow. sounds incredible. |
Update. The Delos is sounding pretty good. settling down. I still do not think it should take this long, borderline ridiculous. One must have a lot of patience for this cartridge unless its just my copy. not sure most people want shrill for 150 hours from their new cartridge. It does sound good now but geez. |
I may have been a combination of the table that is new and the Delos as well being new. Crazy... sounds just great. I am not sure, given the amount of time it took I would recommend it to somebody who puts 100 hours on a cartridge in 6 months. they would get frustrated. Patience is a virtue they say. Its sound just as good as the Ortofon bronze now. Different but as good at least as the bronze. The thing is I heard a bronze with 10 hours on it and it sounded great already. |
Update: moved on from Stillpoints LP1 and I am currently using the Orsonic DS-200g disc stablizer. works great wth the 1200G. I am going back and forth with mats between Boston Audio Design mat and Funk Firm. I am now starting to thing that the Funk Firm with the Orsonic is just incredible. Just sayin..... |
I like acrylic better too. The funk firm is the right height at the moment. If I could find a good acrylic mat I would snap it up.
Nkonor- you are right, it is |
the project puck is decent. I am enjoying the Orsonic clamp. it seems to like my setup. |
Nkonor - i hope your kleos does not take as long to run in as the delos. it was really frustrating to say the least but it sounds great now. Don't give up on it. |
The boston audio design mat is great as and the Funk firm is ok as well. the funk firm is a little thicker so it allows more VTA adjustablility. I wish the Boston audio mat was a little thicker for the Lyra. |
Update: loading down from 100 to 65 ohms on pass labs Xono. using smaller Lyra screws. Did not like the larger ones. |
the phenomena with the battery power is excellent |
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I will try that. when I load higher I do not have as much control with the volume. I like a gradual increase, not just 1 click. thats one of the reasons I have used lower output moving coils in the past |
you were right. I am at 300 ohms. much better. had it at 475, too bright. might try 320. |
I was not expecting it to sound this way loading it higher. |
nkonor, I am sure it will sound amazing. the 1200g is amongst very few turntables Ive heard that just does so many things right and gets better after considerable breakin say 200 hours or so. It really is an amazing value. one of the best out there. |
basement- the one thing I like most about the Lyra, is the performance on old vinyl, just incredible. I can listen to almost all my older records and thoroughly enjoy them whereas the newer ones sometime sound a bit overdone with this cartridge. I can always put the Glider on on for those records. |
I ended up loading at 160 ohms, Boston Audio Mat, 1.75 Grams is where it needs to be, Anti-Skate just above 1. The Orsonic DS-200G disc stabilizer sounds the best with this setup and I had the stillpoints LPI, did not like certain things it did on the 1200G. I also have the project puck, use it once in a while. The Achromat and the Lyra Delos work the best as far as being able to get the VTA right. Its the right height but is resonant at certain frequencies that I do not care for but most of the time sounds fine. The Boston Audio Mat sounds the best, just wish it was a bit thicker and it would be perfect. I am using the Ortofon LH-4000 with the Delos and took the headshell leads off of the LH-6000 and put them on the LH-4000. Sounds great. My cartridge took well over 100 hours to run in which was disappointing. My suggestion to anyone with a Delos is be patient. It is the best tracking cartridge I have ever owned or heard along with other Lyras, just incredible control in grooves. I have the VTA set as low as it will go. YMMV but this has been my experience with the Delos and 1200G. Heard a Ortofon Bronze with the 1200g it sounded very good, not as forward sounding but it definitely has its virtues. I really liked that combination very much. |
Cadenza Bronze. Have you ever listened to any of the nagaoka moving magnets? they are supposed to be very good and reasonable.
What are you hearing that you like better that the Gyro SE? The Gyro SE is a great table. I never heard an SME 10 just the 20. |
I bet the Delos would be great on the Gyro SE |
Update: Using Achromat with Delos and Clearaudio silver wires AC008 Headshell cable se. sounds great. |
Back to the Boston audio mat. "The Mat" |
