@celtic66
I use a pair of Analysis Big Silver Oval.
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@tennisdoc56
I think I am experiencing the same thing you have! I know many have stated that room size has an effect, but I heard a pair of KEF LS 50's on the Luxman 20 W Class A in the same size room as mine, and the bass was jaw-dropping for a speaker of that size.
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Kef Reference 1 Meta speakers, Aries Cerat Helene DAC, Einstein Last Record Player CD player feeding DAC. I'm awaiting an Innuos Pulsar. Room is a converted mill building with drywall and exposed wood ceiling 16x18. Music is lifeless right now.
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@erik_squires
Thanks, great advice. I am currently 1ft. from the rear walls with a slight toe-in. I am still questioning the break-in time. Many have stated at least 300 hrs. Also, the KEFs are brand new and need some time. Right now, this is not an involving system by any means. I question whether a 509X would have been a better match.
@swede58
This is a brand-new system, so I do not have a reference.
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@avanti1960
I am using the kef stands with Iso Acoustics Gaias. Been experimenting with speaker placement and have made slight improvements.
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@arafiq
You are describing exactly what I am hearing! It pains me to admit, but the Luxman/KEF combo does not play well in the sandbox! There is absolutely no body to the music. The bass is improving slightly but not even close to what I desire.
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@erik_squires
I have followed your advice regarding tone controls. Reducing the treble and increasing the bass makes a slight improvement. I have been positioning with small improvements. Interestingly, the loudness button does give me more body and is more pleasurable. But I don't think loudness should be engaged at all power levels to provide listening enjoyment. I have contacted a dealer who is both very knowledgeable about KEF and Luxman, and they stated that the 590 might not be the best combination with the KEFs. The KEFs are power pigs and require tremendous power to bloom. I will certainly give it some more break-in time, but my only option after that is more power. I know many state the prowess of the power output of the mighty 590AXII, but the amp still has limitations. All in all, I greatly appreciate your guidance on how to troubleshoot!!!
Happy holidays to all!
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@erik_squires
Interestingly, about a year ago, I listened to a pair of LS 50 Metas powered by a PrimaLuna tube integrated. The room was smaller than mine; however, the bass output of the little KEFs was "jaw-dropping." I do believe my room may be causing some problems, also!
On a side note, I did a comparison between the Gryphon Diablo 300 and the Essence stereo. I had big expectations for the Essence since it is solid Class A with a tremendous amount of capacitance. It outperformed the Diablo in the midrange and top end, but the Diablo smoked the Essence in bass response. Because I particularly enjoy bass, I found the Diablo to be a more enjoyable and fun amp to listen to.
It was a lesson to me along my audiophile journey that sometimes there is no replacement for power. Similar to an automotive guy saying, "there is no replacement for displacement."
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@ps
Thanks! One thing that I am perplexed over is the fact that all reviews of the Ref 1 Metas are stellar, and the bass is lauded, especially for a stand-mount. The good news is that I will visit a dealer this week to listen to higher-power amps on their Ref 1's. Unfortunately, as many have stated, I think I have a major synergy problem between the Luxman/KEF combo.
I greatly appreciate the knowledge gained from this OP from the membership! This is a great community!
BTW, the speakers have to stay, the wife is in love with the looks, and that is non-negotiable. Keeping her happy allows me more flexibility with purchases. 😉
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PROBLEM SOLVED
I visited a dealer who sells KEF and Luxman. Brought my 590AXII for comparison against the 509X, M10X, and Rotel Michi stereo amp. The room size in the showroom was 1.25X larger than mine and treated. We experienced a similar lack of bass in the showroom as in my home. The Kef Reference 1 Metas are power pigs. Moving up to the 509X was a little better in the bass response. When hooked up to the M10x, the KEFs became a different animal. The bass was crazy good! This is what my dealer expected. The Michi was also powerful in the bass region but nowhere as refined as the M10x. The best pairing was the M10x. I can't speak highly enough of what this amp (M10X) can do. As beautiful as the Class A midrange of the 590AXII is, it is easily trumped by the M10X, as it should be for the price differential.
Thanks to all who offered advice on how to help me solve my issues!
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@ps
Still trying to decide my next move. The speakers have to stay. Still unsure what direction to head with amp/preamp or more powerful integrated (maybe Gryphon Diablo 300). I love the M10x, but it is very pricey. It would sound glorious with a Luxman tube preamp, though!!
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EQUIPMENT UPDATE
I want to update the members who were interested in what I chose for equipment. I have traded in the Luxman for a pair of McIntosh MC 611 monoblocks and a C2700 tube preamp. During my day of extensive auditioning, I found the McIntosh sound best to my liking. I love tubes and their warmth; the McIntosh sound was the closest to an all-tube system, with the benefit of having a portable "nuclear powerplant" driving the speakers.
I immensely enjoyed the Luxman M10X, which was slightly less warm but more analytical (in a very good way) than the Mac. The Gryphon Diablo 300 was also a stunner! But after careful reflection, my heart kept coming back to the McIntosh sound. To my ears, warmth outweighs a more analytical presentation. I will give an update as to the performance in my room when I receive the components. It should take at least eight weeks for delivery. Now I must jump down the "rabbit hole" in selecting power cords for the monoblocks!
I like to thank all for their help in trying to figure out my bass issues. BTW, I plan on hitting the MegaMillions on Tuesday night and will add the Luxman and Gryphon to my stable! 😉
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@arafiq
Thank you! I aim to move to larger speakers when I move into a permanent residence. The Mac is the end game for me. The next project will be power cords, interconnect, and speaker cables.
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System update
The Luxman is gone. The McIntosh C2700/MC 611s sound glorious with the KEFs. The bass is easily 300% better. I could probably convince some that I am using a sub.
The moral of this story is that room acoustics had nothing to do with the bass. It was the inability of the Luxman to drive the power-hungry KEFs. This fact was verified at a dealer also. I also tried the 509X at the dealer into the KEFs, there was a slight improvement, but neither of the integrateds had enough juice to drive them properly. Only the M10X could. The dealer also agreed.
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@ghdprentice
+1
My "wheelhouse" in music is bass/midbass and a warmer midrange. I have auditioned many amps/integrateds and I have not heard an amp that betters the MC611s in the bass/midbass range. The closest I heard was the Gryphon Diablo 300. I think the big MACs have it beat, though.
As far as highs, McIntosh is a little "light" on the top end. I fixed that problem by pairing my source DAC into the C2700 with Nordost Valhalla 2s. That cable has completely transformed the sound of the system.
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