Thank you, mrcypruz, for sharing your first-hand experience.
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@jimmy2615 I’m glad that you got a chance to try the U1, and your impressions give me a sense of sanity check. You described the differences between the two units in a more simplistic yet better way and easier to understand your observations. I agree with you with the value proposition of the U1, the price is worth it for the performance you get and it’s surely better that the U1 Mini. I also like the TV picture quality analogy, you couldn’t have said it any better. I’m sorry for your wallet but happy for your ears. Happy listening and enjoy the U1 for years to come. |
Well, I was able to get to try the U1 in my system this weekend. I agree with mrcypruz, it is better - don't know why (!) But it is. For me the difference is worth the extra cost. More refined, better highs, most as was previously described, but I'll try it this way. Like most good digital I've heard, in terms of upgrades, it just seems to put everything in its place better, in terms of the presentation. It's not just a factor of sound attributes (e.g., highs, timbre, dynamics, etc.) But of a more realistic presentation. And I think it is also in the realm of timing somehow. As an analogy, compare a 1960 movie in Technicolor - nice looking, but a modern movie in HD looks more like the real thing. The U1 mini sounds a little stunted in comparison. I had the SBooster as well. I also like the idea of being able to keep the U1 for a long time while being able to upgrade the DAC only, if desired, or like in my case presently pairing it with a great SACD player with DAC input. |
As a supplement great post here by Steven Huang of audio sensibility. He is a Lumin and SOTM dealer. Not exactly topical but he compares u1 mini to sotm and keeps adding enhancements to each side and gives his thoughts on each as you enhance each item and build a chain around them: https://tinyurl.com/y5hhpjaj |
@jimmy2615 thanks and you’re welcome. I did the comparisons both on my speakers and headphones rigs, twice on each rig, using the U1 & U1 Mini (U1M) Coaxial BCN & USB outputs. Below are both my speakers and headphones rigs for reference. Speaker: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler —> Chord Hugo TT2 —> SPL Phonitor X Pre-amp (sometimes PrimaLuna Evo 400 pre-amp for some tube flavor) —> 2x SPL Performer s800 monoblocks —> KEF Reference 5 speakers The first comparison was conducted on my headphone rig, using the BNC output from both the U1 & U1M going into the Chord Hugo M-Scaler Coaxial BNC inputs (it has two separate BNC inputs) using the same Nordost Heimdall 2 BNC-BNC digital cable model and just switching back and forth the inputs on the M Scaler. As shown above, the M Scaler is connected to the Chord Dave DAC via dual BNC cables. The second comparison was conducted using the same principle, same exact USB cable brand and model (Audioquest Diamond) one coming from the U1 and other from the U1M and going to the M Scaler, but this time around I had to listen to a track then manually switch the cables from the back of the M Scaler as it only has one USB input. The third comparison, which was on my speaker rig, was very similar to the first one, with two separate BNC cables each coming from the U1 and U1M, to another M Scaler feeding a Chord Hugo TT2 DAC. The fourth and last comparison was similar to to second one, USB from U1 & U1M to the second M Scaler feeding the TT2. All 4 comparisons led me to similar conclusions with the U1 being significantly better than the U1M, main differences being in the instrument separation, blacker background, deeper and wider stage, better resolution / clarity and overall a more refined presentation. As for the differences between your CD player with an internal DAC vs U1M, I’ve had a "kind of" similar experience. I used the digital output (bypassing the DAC) on a Hegel Mohican CD player feeding the M Scaler via a BNC cable on my speaker rig and compared it to the U1M, and the CD player was better than the U1M. Did the the same comparison with the U1 and the U1 was better. The CD player digital output was between the U1M and U1 performance streaming 44.1 kHz files stored in my local library using Roon. I never use the analog output of the Mohican because the performance is inferior when compared to my external DACs. Unfortunately I have no means to objectively quantify the differences I heard but I’ll say this, if I had the option to only keep one of the 3 (U1, U1 Mini and Hegel Mohican CD player), I would keep the U1 everyday and twice on Sunday. I believe that your system is more than capable of revealing the performance improvement from the U1M to the U1 but I can’t tell if that is going to be case for your CD player, it could still be better than the U1 - only your ears will tell. If you have the funds for the U1, get it from Upscale Audio, they have a 30 days return policy (if I recall correctly), you can give it a try to see if the upgrade is worthy, if not you can return it and remain happy with the U1M. I hope this helps and happy listening. |
Mrcypruz, thank you for your comparison, great info. Curious - how did you compare the two? Both connected simultaneously to DAC and quickly switching, or some time in between? USB, coax, etc? I have the mini and would definitely upgrade if the U1 was better. My logical problem (without testing u1 against the mini) is using my Luxman D08 as a DAC, which is a great CD player, feeding the same 44.1 Hz file through the U1 mini, the CD playback IS better, but not huge. So to buy the U1 to make up only some of that difference doesn't seem to be worth it. I do have a revealing system - Magico/Luxman/Nordost. I think my way of testing is a good test, using the same DAC via the original CD source as THE reference from which to judge. Most people just using a DAC couldn't do this, obviously. The CD playback presents a performance ceiling that theoretically couldn't be beaten, only strived to, and the Gap is very small in my case at least. I wonder if the DAC receiving the signal from the streamer makes a difference, some kind of synergy issue between two different streamers? |
@paopawdecarabao I heard Kenneth is a good solution but I can tell you the P8 is a great solution in dual output mode. It does 4 amps per output and u1 mini only uses 0.4 amps consistently so it has tons of headroom. I plan to maybe to use it to power morion clock down the road and have configured it as such (you choose the voltages ahead of time). Now to be fair I have no compared it to any other external PSU. So feel free to research all the options. I do know many regard Paul Hynes and uptone JS2 as both excellent. @steakster Ya I know but i was still responding to what you said about what he said and your comment 'Your posts were just fine. ' and what my objection was to it because you did ask me before what the issue was. |
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@steakster I had no issue with his experiences it was the implication and air of superiority that I got from it as I pointed out. But that was not his intent so that's fine. Whenever you like something in audio and someone says 'well its probably because that item you like is introducing distortion' it can be seen by many as an insult. I too was sharing my experience and believe it to be just as valid in contributing to the community as his was. |
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We’re good! 🤝 Awesome, I’ll be on the lookout for your review of your system and a comparison of the stock U1 Mini vs U1 Mini+Keces P8 PS. I think the S Booster is widely known and very popular because it’s the most recommended upgrade by most LUMIN dealers in the US and it’s an easy mod that can be done within a few minutes...not necessarily because it’s the “best” PSU option out there for the U1 Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if your dealer found that the Keces P8 PSU is better than the S Booster. |
I apologize if I said 'is' that is my mistake, I should have said 'may' or should have said 'he found it to be'. I appreciate your insight regardless and I wish i had the full size U1 because its a much more elegant solution imo than my stack of boxes. But I'll stick to my stack because I am so incredibly impressed by the sound. I think to summarize: 1. If you have the cash and want a really nice looking clean solution, get full U1. 2. If you don't want to spend as much as U1 costs consider streamer (like u1 mini) + di20he setup as it MAY be extremely good for less money. I should also add that I am in the process of doing a review of my system and will be comparing u1 mini stock vs u1 mini + keces p8 on www.sonicvisions.org. Just got to get a cable from my dealer who has made a switching box where I can power the u1 mini with stock PSU then take it out and use the Keces p8. |
I think the implication here is quite obvious that ’hey man what I did is better than what you did... your setup is just more distortion, my setup is better’. If that is not your implication then thats cool, but thats what I got from your post. And I felt it was a bit arrogant to be honest. Like my cheaper solution is not as good as your more expensive solution and mine is just more distortion prone and therefore I like distortion.My apologies if I came across that way, I didn’t mean to “look down” at your system because it’s cheaper or because mine is more expensive. I also didn’t want to seem arrogant, again my apologies if I came off that way. One thing I ask though is to not imply things I did not say. I never stated that my setup was better than yours, I actually stated that I was glad and happy that you’re happy with your current system. I don’t think that we need to be defensive or to point fingers at each other, after all we’re all here just for fun. Once again, please accept my sincerest apologies for making you think that I was being arrogant and looking down at your system solely due to price difference. |
It’s just amazing how you give a twist to everything I said to make it sound erroneous. When I use the words “could be” or “might be” you proceed to give examples with “is”...and then when I suggest you to avoid making absolute claims with “is” you proceed to saying that you said “may be”. I rest my case and once again, I just wanted to share my first hand experience with both units. I never intended to state that the DI20HE plus any given streamer couldn’t be better than the U1, I just tried to have more clarity about how could you make such claims without listening to the U1. As a reminder, I never claimed that the DI20HE isn’t better than the U1, I threw a possibility that there could be additional artifacts being introduced to the sound. Anyways, happy listening and once again my intent was to actually contribute to the thread by responding to your initial question. Sorry for having to go through this “you said” / “I said” type of posts. They’re, in my opinion, unproductive and discouraging for the broader community. |
"I just need to clarify that I didn’t state that the DI20HE increases noise and interference, I said that it could be possible that the perceived improvements were due to additional distortion and/or noise/interference." Sure but you are doing the same thing as me. You are coming to a conclusion without personal experience (trying di20he). I think the implication here is quite obvious that ’hey man what I did is better than what you did... your setup is just more distortion, my setup is better’. If that is not your implication then thats cool, but thats what I got from your post. And I felt it was a bit arrogant to be honest. Like my cheaper solution is not as good as your more expensive solution and mine is just more distortion prone and therefore I like distortion. " Additionally, I don’t need validation for any of my purchases, I’ve been humbled many times in this hobby that I’ve learned that more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean better, but in the case of the U1 and U1 Mini + S Booster, it is the case to my ears in my system. My intention was solely to share my experience. " That was my intention too. To share my experience as well. |
"avoid stating or even implying that it is better than the U1 or the dCS Bridge based on what you read. " I don't see whats wrong in saying that this solution 'may' be better than full size u1. There is nothing erroneous about that comment. Also I don't see anything wrong in saying that Jimmy Chang on head fi found pi + di20he better than dcs bridge. And a number of other users on audiophilestyle found dcs bridge better than full size u1 (including a personal friend of mine who I really trust). Just because these are not my personal experiences I am not allowed to state them? |
I just need to clarify that I didn’t state that the DI20HE increases noise and interference, I said that it could be possible that the perceived improvements were due to additional distortion and/or noise/interference. Additionally, I don’t need validation for any of my purchases, I’ve been humbled many times in this hobby that I’ve learned that more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean better, but in the case of the U1 and U1 Mini + S Booster, it is the case to my ears in my system. My intention was solely to share my experience. |
By the way I want to add 1 thing. I actually think buying a full size lumin u1 is a good decision for 3 main reasons. 1. It looks really nice, much nicer than u1 mini. It just has a great chassis and if I could get one for a very good price I would do it. 2. Its possible that u1 is better than U1 mini + Keces p8 and do its also possible that u1 mini + p8 + di20HE stack would be even better than my stack.3. It is great if you want a cleaner solution and want to avoid stacks of boxes. So I DO NOT fault @mrcypruz or anyone who want to get the full size U1. And I agree with his original point that if you have the cash go for it for the above 3 reasons. |
I don’t have any experience with the DI20HE and never claimed to have, as I never heard it. I shared my thought a d the reasoning behind without making any claims. I also said that I was actually happy that you found it a great solution for your system but struggled to understand that you think that your solution is a better alternative than the stand-alone U1 or even the dCS Bridge, which you’ve implied more than once, without any first hand experience whatsoever. I would suggest that you recommend the DI20HE (and possibly add an external clock to it for further enhancement) as a solution to enhance the performance of the U1 Mini + S Booster because you’ve actually heard the improvements but avoid stating or even implying that it is better than the U1 or the dCS Bridge based on what you read. @steakster thanks for the kind words. As I stated on my initial post, I was personally interested in the answer to that question and came to this thread looking for the answer, that’s why I thought it would be useful to share my impressions and experience with the audience here and anyone who might be interested in this information. |
Yes he did by saying "It’s awesome to read that the DI20HE reclocker is getting the job done with satisfying results. I’m one of those guys who believes that less is more for linearity and less induced overall noise and interference in the signal chain." And"I gave up using reclockers and external clocks in order to reduce the amount of boxes to have a more streamlined but “ultra” high performance system, if possible." So indirectly he is saying ya well DI20HE likely will just cause noise and interference so its not for me. He has not heard it personally just as I have not heard full size u1 personally. If he just said 'Glad di20he is working great' and left it at that I would have absolutely no objection. But that little extra part he added was done so just to make himself feel good and justify his purchase. By the way if you read what I wrote nowhere did I say he is wrong. This is all subjective. We all have our opinions based on what we have heard. My only aim was to provide other people with another option to consider. Neither I nor has he tried full size u1 vs di20he. So I invite others to try this face off and report your results. |
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I concede totally that I am relying on other peoples impressions. But what are you using to evaluate the DI20HE? You are not even using other peoples impressions. You are just using theory about how it 'should sound'. Also you have never tried u1 mini with any other PSU besides sbooster... so people looking at the ext psu option should be made aware that doing this may be something to explore... they shouldn't simply conclude that welp sbooster is the end of the line. |
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Thanks for the thorough explanation. I did understand your initial post. The difference between our takes is that I have had first hand experience with both U1 and U1 Mini+ S Booster and shared my experience on the perceived differences between the two, you on the other hand are assuming, based on real world findings of other people, that the DI20HE plus a streamer out performs the U1 and even the dCS Bridge. I’m happy that you’re content with your solution, but realistically you don’t know if it’s better than the stand-alone U1. You’re just assuming it is, based on what you read. I read other people’s impressions/reviews and experiences to use it as a guide to improve my system but I make a conscious effort to not claim anything based on other people’s experiences, until I try it myself. Again I compared both the U1 and U1 Mini + S Booster myself. |
What I am talking about is not my belief I am simply reporting real world findings of audiophiles that have compared DI20HE + pi to DCS and that have compared DCS to full U1. So its not my personal belief based on my theoretical understanding. Its real world experience from other audiophiles. I am not saying that I personally observed that. If I tested it myself I may disagree or agree with them. But given their findings I am content with my solution and their impressions are enough for me to be satisfied that going full U1 would not be worth it. To re-iterate (because it seems you did not read/understand my post)... they found that: DI20HE + Pi > DCS Bridge DCS Bridge > full size u1 Feel free to read audiophile style or head fi if you doubt what I am saying ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES. One other anecdote is from Steven Huang of audiosensibility who finds that sbooster + u1 mini is about 80% of the performance of full U1. So taken all the above its not a far stretch of the imagination that a better ext PSU + di20he in the chain would be on par or likely out perform full u1. |
I got good results with AES out of the DI20HE also. But I2s just took it further. Im also only using a basic 8k shielded amazon HDMI cable. Still waiting for a better wireworld chroma cable.Thank you for the quick response. This is the first I'd heard of the DI20HE and your comment of pi and it to be reportedly comparable to the dcs bridge really got my attention. I've been considering the DCS nb or a u1 mini and now a di20he but it might just be a sideways move in my system as I'm pretty sure my streamer (sonore SSR) has a great built in LPS and sonore paid special attention to the spdif implementation with a separate board for it if I remember correctly. I'll ask the manufacturer if my DAC can be retrofitted with I2S, if so, that might be the way to go for its simplicity. I've read much about I2S sounding the best, of which the SSR has that output. |
I completely agree with your statement there about having beliefs vs actually listening to it. I hope you’ve listened to the LUMIN U1 and compared it against your current setup rather than “believing” that your setup out performs the U1 based on what you read. The aforementioned streamer, in my opinion, is inferior to the LUMIN U1 and probably on par with the U1 Mini with S Booster - again, that’s based on my experience in my system. Your experience might be different. I gave up using reclockers and external clocks in order to reduce the amount of boxes to have a more streamlined but “ultra” high performance system, if possible. Again, I’m glad that you’re happy with your solution, after all that’s what we are all after - the joy of having a satisfying system that completely eliminates the need for further “upgraditis disease”. |
Its fine having beliefs. But having a belief and actually listening is a different thing. People have been using DI20HE after some pretty high end streamers in their chain including auralic aries g2 with gains in SQ. For those reading this go to head fi and talk to the guys there including Jimmy Chang who did an A-B of dcs bridge vs pi +di20he (dcs bridge is known by many to be better than even the full size lumin u1). By the way di20he can also take external clock and I don't even have one connected. But a $300 morion ext clock from queensland seller off ebay takes SQ even further! Its a future upgrade I plan on. I think having a strong ext psu with the u1 mini is a great option because then you have a PSU in another chassis like full size u1 and have the ability to use the psu you want (there are better PSUs out there than sbooster). My dealer modded my u1 mini so I can put on w/e PSU I want. This gives you the flexibility select a very high quality PSU. I think the one main advantage of full u1 is that its a cleaner looking solution with less boxes and looks very nice compared to my stack of boxes (but I do like the look of my box stack). |
This is likely true if you take the "stock" U1 Mini and compare it to the standard U1. I guess that was your experience. For the records the transport section of the U1 Mini and U1 are not the same, the mini has the same digital section as the D2 and the U1 has the same digital section as the S1. Also the U1 does not have a DAC nor analog output. I think that it will eventually come down to how resolving the system is to allow one to discern the differences. Both my speaker and headphones rigs are fairly resolving which is why I shared my impressions about the differences I noticed between the two. For reference below are the rigs: Speaker: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler —> Chord Hugo TT2 —> SPL Phonitor X Pre-amp (sometimes PrimaLuna Evo 400 pre-amp for some tube flavor) —> 2x SPL Performer s800 monoblocks —> KEF Reference 5 speakers Headphones: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler (yes I have two) —> Chord Dave —> Woo Audio WA33 tube amp or RAAL-Requisite HSA-1a amp The rigs feed the following headphones: Focal Utopia, HifiMan Susvara, ZMF Verite Closed a d RAAL-Requisite SR1a. Again, your experience is apparently different than mine and I’m glad that in your system you don’t seem to perceive the differences between the U1 and the U1 Mini with an upgraded power supply which is great for your wallet...in my system there’s no place for the U1 Mini anymore because the U1 is that much better. The U1 does not have a DAC, it is a digital transport like the U1 Mini. The "only" difference is that it is a much better transport. I had the same experience as yours, and yes I was also naive and wrong to believe that upgrading the power supply on the U1 Mini would make it as good as the U1....the U1 is just a lot better, that's not even close! |
The only thing that the standard U1 has here is a DAC and analog output. If you don’t need this and are still intending to do the Sbooster mod on the U1 MIni, then I would say go for the U1 Mini. The digital transport section is the same on both.The U1 does not have a DAC, it is a digital transport like the U1 Mini. The "only" difference is that it is a much better transport. That being said, I took a close look. I think the U1 Mini + Sbooster is probably going to be equal to the standard U1 if you just use them as a digital transport.I used to have the U1 Mini and added a good LPS (Kenneth Lau Signature). I thought I had a transport as good as the U1 for half of the price. Well I was naive and wrong. I took home the X1 for a test and connected it as a transport (same like an U1), with the same cables and Aesthetix DAC I used to have with the U1 Mini. The difference was huge, the weakest link in my system was the U1 Mini with LPS and not the DAC what I thougt. There is a reason why the U1 costs almost 3 times more than the stock Mini.... |
I can safely say to just don’t bother with the U1 Mini, if you have the funds just go for the big brother U1. The difference is so noticeable that it’s not even worth comparing them, the U1 is simply betterThis is likely true if you take the "stock" U1 Mini and compare it to the standard U1. That being said, I took a close look. I think the U1 Mini + Sbooster is probably going to be equal to the standard U1 if you just use them as a digital transport. The only thing that the standard U1 has here is a DAC and analog output. If you don't need this and are still intending to do the Sbooster mod on the U1 MIni, then I would say go for the U1 Mini. The digital transport section is the same on both. |
This is a great tip to bring the U1 Mini performance up a notch. It’s awesome to read that the DI20HE reclocker is getting the job done with satisfying results. I’m one of those guys who believes that less is more for linearity and less induced overall noise and interference in the signal chain. The U1 Mini already have a “higher” noise floor than the U1, so I really can’t see how the DI20HE brings that down, it probably adds its own distortion, which might be a sweet one for the ears, thus giving the sense of improvement. I’m glad that this setup works great in your system at a significantly less cost than the U1. |
others who have tried the di20he + streamer (even something like pi) have found it to be better than dcs bridgeWas having an i2s input on their dac a prerequisite or does the di20he have the same goodness via its spdif output? I ask because my streamer already has an i2s output but my dac has rca coax, optical & usb inputs only. |
I went in a different direction. I got the U1 mini + Keces p8 (with ghent dc cable) going into a Audio GD DI20HE then I2S out into my DAC. This chain is simply incredible. Absolutely beats my old SOTM 200 ultra + sps 500 + dx usb setup. And doing the u1 mini + P8 or DI20HE alone was not as good as the combo. Oh and I am using coax out of the u1 mini. Now I have not compared to full size u1 but others who have tried the di20he + streamer (even something like pi) have found it to be better than dcs bridge. This is something really worth trying and ultimately cheaper and possibly better than full size u1. |
I’m one of the guys who was actually curious about this comparison (U1 vs U1 Mini+S Booster). I have both units and I thought it would be useful to share my experience with the to help potential buyers. I can safely say to just don’t bother with the U1 Mini, if you have the funds just go for the big brother U1. The difference is so noticeable that it’s not even worth comparing them, the U1 is simply better - better resolution and clarity, wider and deeper stage, blacker background, greater instrument separation, greater refinement...in a nutshell I would say that the U1 makes the U1 Mini sound “strained”. The U1 Mini+S Booster combo is a serious step up from regular computer streaming and it beats most streamers at the same price range currently available on the market but it can’t hold a candle against its big brother, the U1. I’ll be putting the combo up for sale in a few days, so that it can find a new home where it will get some love, otherwise it will turn into a great dust collector. |
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