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Lumin U1 vs Lumin U1 mini + sbooster?

Has anyone done this comparison ? How close can the mini get ?
smodtactical

Showing 20 responses by mrcypruz

mrcypruz
21 posts
 
@jimmy2615  I’m glad that you got a chance to try the U1, and your impressions give me a sense of sanity check. 
You described the differences between the two units in a more simplistic yet better way and easier to understand your observations. I agree with you with the value proposition of the U1, the price is worth it for the performance you get and it’s surely better that the U1 Mini. I also like the TV picture quality analogy, you couldn’t have said it any better.

I’m sorry for your wallet but happy for your ears. Happy listening and enjoy the U1 for years to come.

mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I agree, the mini is almost unbeatable for the money and a few tweaks/upgrades can go a long way. 
As long as you’re happy, that’s what matters the most - it’s reasonable and fair to not care (and your wallet will be safe).

 I was just sharing another upgrade path for the U1 (not mini) owners to make another leap forward on the performance of that already awesome streamer.


mrcypruz
21 posts
 
Snuphy91 and smodtactical, you’re more than welcome. Just trying to contribute to our magnificent community, hoping that someone finds the information useful. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 

I’m one of the guys who was actually curious about this comparison (U1 vs U1 Mini+S Booster). I have both units and I thought it would be useful to share my experience with the to help potential buyers.

I can safely say to just don’t bother with the U1 Mini, if you have the funds just go for the big brother U1. The difference is so noticeable that it’s not even worth comparing them, the U1 is simply better - better resolution and clarity, wider and deeper stage, blacker background, greater instrument separation, greater refinement...in a nutshell I would say that the U1 makes the U1 Mini sound “strained”. 

The U1 Mini+S Booster combo is a serious step up from regular computer streaming and it beats most streamers at the same price range currently available on the market but it can’t hold a candle against its big brother, the U1.

I’ll be putting the combo up for sale in a few days, so that it can find a new home where it will get some love, otherwise it will turn into a great dust collector.


mrcypruz
21 posts
 
This is a great tip to bring the U1 Mini performance up a notch. It’s awesome to read that the DI20HE reclocker is getting the job done with satisfying results. I’m one of those guys who believes that less is more for linearity and less induced overall noise and interference in the signal chain.

The U1 Mini already have a “higher” noise floor than the U1, so I really can’t see how the DI20HE brings that down, it probably adds its own distortion, which might be a sweet one for the ears, thus giving the sense of improvement. I’m glad that this setup works great in your system at a significantly less cost than the U1. 

mrcypruz
21 posts
 
sorry, I was looking at a wrong picture.
You're good! I thought you had first hand experience with the units. You might want to give them a try to notice the differences. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
This is likely true if you take the "stock" U1 Mini and compare it to the standard U1.

That being said, I took a close look. I think the U1 Mini + Sbooster is probably going to be equal to the standard U1 if you just use them as a digital transport.  

The only thing that the standard U1 has here is a DAC and analog output. If you don't need this and are still intending to do the Sbooster mod on the U1 MIni, then I would say go for the U1 Mini. The digital transport section is the same on both.

I guess that was your experience. For the records the transport section of the U1 Mini and U1 are not the same, the mini has the same digital section as the D2 and the U1 has the same digital section as the S1. Also the U1 does not have a DAC nor analog output.

I think that it will eventually come down to how resolving the system is to allow one to discern the differences. Both my speaker and headphones rigs are fairly resolving which is why I shared my impressions about the differences I noticed between the two.

For reference below are the rigs:

Speaker: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler —> Chord Hugo TT2 —> SPL Phonitor X Pre-amp (sometimes PrimaLuna Evo 400 pre-amp for some tube flavor) —> 2x SPL Performer s800 monoblocks —> KEF Reference 5 speakers

Headphones: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler (yes I have two) —> Chord Dave —> Woo Audio WA33 tube amp or RAAL-Requisite HSA-1a amp
The rigs feed the following headphones: Focal Utopia, HifiMan Susvara, ZMF Verite Closed a d RAAL-Requisite SR1a.

Again, your experience is apparently different than mine and I’m glad that in your system you don’t seem to perceive the differences between the U1 and the U1 Mini with an upgraded power supply which is great for your wallet...in my system there’s no place for the U1 Mini anymore because the U1 is that much better.


The U1 does not have a DAC, it is a digital transport like the U1 Mini. The "only" difference is that it is a much better transport.

I used to have the U1 Mini and added a good LPS (Kenneth Lau Signature). I thought I had a transport as good as the U1 for half of the price. Well I was naive and wrong. I took home the X1 for a test and connected it as a transport (same like an U1), with the same cables and Aesthetix DAC I used to have with the U1 Mini. 
The difference was huge, the weakest link in my system was the U1 Mini with LPS and not the DAC what I thougt. There is a reason why the U1 costs almost 3 times more than the stock Mini....

I had the same experience as yours, and yes I was also naive and wrong to believe that upgrading the power supply on the U1 Mini would make it as good as the U1....the U1 is just a lot better, that's not even close!
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I completely agree with your statement there about having beliefs vs actually listening to it. I hope you’ve listened to the LUMIN U1 and compared it against your current setup rather than “believing” that your setup out performs the U1 based on what you read. 

The aforementioned streamer, in my opinion, is inferior to the LUMIN U1 and probably on par with the U1 Mini with S Booster - again, that’s based on my experience in my system. Your experience might be different. 

I gave up using reclockers and external clocks in order to reduce the amount of boxes to have a more streamlined but “ultra” high performance system, if possible.

Again, I’m glad that you’re happy with your solution, after all that’s what we are all after - the joy of having a satisfying system that completely eliminates the need for further “upgraditis disease”.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
Thanks for the thorough explanation. I did understand your initial post.

The difference between our takes is that I have had first hand experience with both U1 and U1 Mini+ S Booster and shared my experience on the perceived differences between the two, you on the other hand are assuming, based on real world findings of other people, that the DI20HE plus a streamer out performs the U1 and even the dCS Bridge. I’m happy that you’re content with your solution, but realistically you don’t know if it’s better than the stand-alone U1. You’re just assuming it is, based on what you read.

I read other people’s impressions/reviews and experiences to use it as a guide to improve my system but I make a conscious effort to not claim anything based on other people’s experiences, until I try it myself.

Again I compared both the U1 and U1 Mini + S Booster myself.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I don’t have any experience with the DI20HE and never claimed to have, as I never heard it. I shared my thought a d the reasoning behind without making any claims. I also said that I was actually happy that you found it a great solution for your system but struggled to understand that you think that your solution is a better alternative than the stand-alone U1 or even the dCS Bridge, which you’ve implied more than once, without any first hand experience whatsoever. 
I would suggest that you recommend the DI20HE (and possibly add an external clock to it for further enhancement) as a solution to enhance the performance of the U1 Mini + S Booster because you’ve actually heard the improvements but avoid stating or even implying that it is better than the U1 or the dCS Bridge based on what you read. 
@steakster thanks for the kind words. As I stated on my initial post, I was personally interested in the answer to that question and came to this thread looking for the answer, that’s why I thought it would be useful to share my impressions and experience with the audience here and anyone who might be interested in this information.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
@steakster thanks again for the kind words. That’s what all online audio forums should be about, share our experiences, learn from each other, rejoice with constructive discussions, indulge in the music and spread love that the world seems to lack these days. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
We’re good! 🤝

Awesome, I’ll be on the lookout for your review of your system and a comparison of the stock U1 Mini vs U1 Mini+Keces P8 PS.

I think the S Booster is widely known and very popular because it’s the most recommended upgrade by most LUMIN dealers in the US and it’s an easy mod that can be done within a few minutes...not necessarily because it’s the “best” PSU option out there for the U1 Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if your dealer found that the Keces P8 PSU is better than the S Booster. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I just need to clarify that I didn’t state that the DI20HE increases noise and interference, I said that it could be possible that the perceived improvements were due to additional distortion and/or noise/interference.

Additionally, I don’t need validation for any of my purchases, I’ve been humbled many times in this hobby that I’ve learned that more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean better, but in the case of the U1 and U1 Mini + S Booster, it is the case to my ears in my system. My intention was solely to share my experience.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I think the implication here is quite obvious that ’hey man what I did is better than what you did... your setup is just more distortion, my setup is better’. If that is not your implication then thats cool, but thats what I got from your post. And I felt it was a bit arrogant to be honest. Like my cheaper solution is not as good as your more expensive solution and mine is just more distortion prone and therefore I like distortion.
My apologies if I came across that way, I didn’t mean to “look down” at your system because it’s cheaper or because mine is more expensive. I also didn’t want to seem arrogant, again my apologies if I came off that way. One thing I ask though is to not imply things I did not say. I never stated that my setup was better than yours, I actually stated that I was glad and happy that you’re happy with your current system.

I don’t think that we need to be defensive or to point fingers at each other, after all we’re all here just for fun.

Once again, please accept my sincerest apologies for making you think that I was being arrogant and looking down at your system solely due to price difference.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
It’s just amazing how you give a twist to everything I said to make it sound erroneous. When I use the words “could be” or “might be” you proceed to give examples with “is”...and then when I suggest you to avoid making absolute claims with “is” you proceed to saying that you said “may be”.

I rest my case and once again, I just wanted to share my first hand experience with both units. I never intended to state that the DI20HE plus any given streamer couldn’t be better than the U1, I just tried to have more clarity about how could you make such claims without listening to the U1. As a reminder, I never claimed that the DI20HE isn’t better than the U1, I threw a possibility that there could be additional artifacts being introduced to the sound.

Anyways, happy listening and once again my intent was to actually contribute to the thread by responding to your initial question. Sorry for having to go through this “you said” / “I said” type of posts. They’re, in my opinion, unproductive and discouraging for the broader community.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
@jimmy2615 thanks and you’re welcome.

I did the comparisons both on my speakers and headphones rigs, twice on each rig, using the U1 & U1 Mini (U1M) Coaxial BCN & USB outputs.

Below are both my speakers and headphones rigs for reference.

Speaker: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler —> Chord Hugo TT2 —> SPL Phonitor X Pre-amp (sometimes PrimaLuna Evo 400 pre-amp for some tube flavor) —> 2x SPL Performer s800 monoblocks —> KEF Reference 5 speakers

Headphones: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler (yes I have two) —> Chord Dave —> Woo Audio WA33 tube amp or RAAL-Requisite HSA-1a amp
The rigs feed the following headphones: Focal Utopia, HifiMan Susvara, ZMF Verite Closed a d RAAL-Requisite SR1a.

The first comparison was conducted on my headphone rig, using the BNC output from both the U1 & U1M going into the Chord Hugo M-Scaler Coaxial BNC inputs (it has two separate BNC inputs) using the same Nordost Heimdall 2 BNC-BNC digital cable model and just switching back and forth the inputs on the M Scaler. As shown above, the M Scaler is connected to the Chord Dave DAC via dual BNC cables.

The second comparison was conducted using the same principle, same exact USB cable brand and model (Audioquest Diamond) one coming from the U1 and other from the U1M and going to the M Scaler, but this time around I had to listen to a track then manually switch the cables from the back of the M Scaler as it only has one USB input.

The third comparison, which was on my speaker rig, was very similar to the first one, with two separate BNC cables each coming from the U1 and U1M, to another M Scaler feeding a Chord Hugo TT2 DAC.

The fourth and last comparison was similar to to second one, USB from U1 & U1M to the second M Scaler feeding the TT2.

All 4 comparisons led me to similar conclusions with the U1 being significantly better than the U1M, main differences being in the instrument separation, blacker background, deeper and wider stage, better resolution / clarity and overall a more refined presentation.

As for the differences between your CD player with an internal DAC vs U1M, I’ve had a "kind of" similar experience. I used the digital output (bypassing the DAC) on a Hegel Mohican CD player feeding the M Scaler via a BNC cable on my speaker rig and compared it to the U1M, and the CD player was better than the U1M. Did the the same comparison with the U1 and the U1 was better. The CD player digital output was between the U1M and U1 performance streaming 44.1 kHz files stored in my local library using Roon. I never use the analog output of the Mohican because the performance is inferior when compared to my external DACs.

Unfortunately I have no means to objectively quantify the differences I heard but I’ll say this, if I had the option to only keep one of the 3 (U1, U1 Mini and Hegel Mohican CD player), I would keep the U1 everyday and twice on Sunday.

I believe that your system is more than capable of revealing the performance improvement from the U1M to the U1 but I can’t tell if that is going to be case for your CD player, it could still be better than the U1 - only your ears will tell.

If you have the funds for the U1, get it from Upscale Audio, they have a 30 days return policy (if I recall correctly), you can give it a try to see if the upgrade is worthy, if not you can return it and remain happy with the U1M.

I hope this helps and happy listening.

mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I got a deal from a friend. You can always call Upscale Audio to ask for a deal, they usually give me deals when I call them instead of just placing an order online. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
Out of all the tweaks you mentioned, the only I didn’t do was to ground the U1 Mini. Now imagine if you do the same to the U1, you’ll surely pull even further ahead of the U1 Mini.

Btw, that Black Cat Tron digital cable is the same price as the U1 Mini, I can only imagine it doing wonders with the U1.

The U1 Mini + Black Cat Tron digital came puts you really close to the U1 price.
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
I can confirm that the U1 Mini mod is straight forward and relatively simple. I would recommend getting a used unit here on Audiogon or even my already modded unit (Lol) and not worry about warranty. 
I agree with all the tweaks being discussed here and they do enhance the performance of the U1 Mini but not to the U1 level. Also, those very same tweaks can be done on the big brother U1 to make it even better if you’re seeking the ultimate performance from a streamer. These tweaks when applied on the U1, will make it significantly better than the Mini, by a significant margin. However, if you’re just trying to get the most of the U1 Mini without spending a lot, then stick with the tweaks suggested here and be happy! $5.9k is a big chunk of change for a digital streamer. 
mrcypruz
21 posts
 
So the U1 Mini + S Booster finally found a new home, I though I would use it on my secondary rig but after getting used to the U1, there’s no way back to the Mini.

I’ve upgraded the power supply on my the U1 to the X1 power supply and the leap was once again drastic, the noise floor dropped and as a result, the background became darker which in turn made the stage wider and more cavernous, the bass became tighter and dug deeper, very well controlled, refined and life like midrange and treble. One noticeable thing with these improvements is that it feels like I can play the same tracks way louder than before without any hint of fatigue or ear piercing notes whatsoever.
Had the chance to A/B the U1+X1 power supply against the X1 digital section both outputting USB to a Chord M Scaler + Dave (later on a dCS Bartok) and there was no discernible difference.

To all U1 owners, if you want to get to the X1 digital section performance without dropping $13k, I highly recommend the X1 power supply for a “fraction” of the cost ($2.1k).

I wonder if LUMIN is going to provide a standalone DAC based on the X1 DAC...if they do, I’ll be all over that.

  
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