I apologize if I said 'is' that is my mistake, I should have said 'may' or should have said 'he found it to be'. I appreciate your insight regardless and I wish i had the full size U1 because its a much more elegant solution imo than my stack of boxes. But I'll stick to my stack because I am so incredibly impressed by the sound.
I think to summarize:
1. If you have the cash and want a really nice looking clean solution, get full U1. 2. If you don't want to spend as much as U1 costs consider streamer (like u1 mini) + di20he setup as it MAY be extremely good for less money.
I should also add that I am in the process of doing a review of my system and will be comparing u1 mini stock vs u1 mini + keces p8 on www.sonicvisions.org. Just got to get a cable from my dealer who has made a switching box where I can power the u1 mini with stock PSU then take it out and use the Keces p8.
Awesome, I’ll be on the lookout for your review of your system and a comparison of the stock U1 Mini vs U1 Mini+Keces P8 PS.
I think the S Booster is widely known and very popular because it’s the most recommended upgrade by most LUMIN dealers in the US and it’s an easy mod that can be done within a few minutes...not necessarily because it’s the “best” PSU option out there for the U1 Mini. I wouldn't be surprised if your dealer found that the Keces P8 PSU is better than the S Booster.
I had no issue with his experiences it was the implication and air of superiority that I got from it as I pointed out. But that was not his intent so that's fine. Whenever you like something in audio and someone says 'well its probably because that item you like is introducing distortion' it can be seen by many as an insult.
I too was sharing my experience and believe it to be just as valid in contributing to the community as his was.
@steakster thanks again for the kind words. That’s what all online audio forums should be about, share our experiences, learn from each other, rejoice with constructive discussions, indulge in the music and spread love that the world seems to lack these days.
@paopawdecarabao I heard Kenneth is a good solution but I can tell you the P8 is a great solution in dual output mode. It does 4 amps per output and u1 mini only uses 0.4 amps consistently so it has tons of headroom. I plan to maybe to use it to power morion clock down the road and have configured it as such (you choose the voltages ahead of time). Now to be fair I have no compared it to any other external PSU. So feel free to research all the options. I do know many regard Paul Hynes and uptone JS2 as both excellent.
@steakster Ya I know but i was still responding to what you said about what he said and your comment 'Your posts were just fine.
' and what my objection was to it because you did ask me before what the issue was.
Mrcypruz, thank you for your comparison, great info. Curious - how did you compare the two? Both connected simultaneously to DAC and quickly switching, or some time in between? USB, coax, etc? I have the mini and would definitely upgrade if the U1 was better. My logical problem (without testing u1 against the mini) is using my Luxman D08 as a DAC, which is a great CD player, feeding the same 44.1 Hz file through the U1 mini, the CD playback IS better, but not huge. So to buy the U1 to make up only some of that difference doesn't seem to be worth it. I do have a revealing system - Magico/Luxman/Nordost. I think my way of testing is a good test, using the same DAC via the original CD source as THE reference from which to judge. Most people just using a DAC couldn't do this, obviously. The CD playback presents a performance ceiling that theoretically couldn't be beaten, only strived to, and the Gap is very small in my case at least. I wonder if the DAC receiving the signal from the streamer makes a difference, some kind of synergy issue between two different streamers?
I did the comparisons both on my speakers and headphones rigs, twice on each rig, using the U1 & U1 Mini (U1M) Coaxial BCN & USB outputs.
Below are both my speakers and headphones rigs for reference.
Speaker: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler —> Chord Hugo TT2 —> SPL Phonitor X Pre-amp (sometimes PrimaLuna Evo 400 pre-amp for some tube flavor) —> 2x SPL Performer s800 monoblocks —> KEF Reference 5 speakers
Headphones: LUMIN U1 Streamer —> Chord M Scaler (yes I have two) —> Chord Dave —> Woo Audio WA33 tube amp or RAAL-Requisite HSA-1a amp The rigs feed the following headphones: Focal Utopia, HifiMan Susvara, ZMF Verite Closed a d RAAL-Requisite SR1a.
The first comparison was conducted on my headphone rig, using the BNC output from both the U1 & U1M going into the Chord Hugo M-Scaler Coaxial BNC inputs (it has two separate BNC inputs) using the same Nordost Heimdall 2 BNC-BNC digital cable model and just switching back and forth the inputs on the M Scaler. As shown above, the M Scaler is connected to the Chord Dave DAC via dual BNC cables.
The second comparison was conducted using the same principle, same exact USB cable brand and model (Audioquest Diamond) one coming from the U1 and other from the U1M and going to the M Scaler, but this time around I had to listen to a track then manually switch the cables from the back of the M Scaler as it only has one USB input.
The third comparison, which was on my speaker rig, was very similar to the first one, with two separate BNC cables each coming from the U1 and U1M, to another M Scaler feeding a Chord Hugo TT2 DAC.
The fourth and last comparison was similar to to second one, USB from U1 & U1M to the second M Scaler feeding the TT2.
All 4 comparisons led me to similar conclusions with the U1 being significantly better than the U1M, main differences being in the instrument separation, blacker background, deeper and wider stage, better resolution / clarity and overall a more refined presentation.
As for the differences between your CD player with an internal DAC vs U1M, I’ve had a "kind of" similar experience. I used the digital output (bypassing the DAC) on a Hegel Mohican CD player feeding the M Scaler via a BNC cable on my speaker rig and compared it to the U1M, and the CD player was better than the U1M. Did the the same comparison with the U1 and the U1 was better. The CD player digital output was between the U1M and U1 performance streaming 44.1 kHz files stored in my local library using Roon. I never use the analog output of the Mohican because the performance is inferior when compared to my external DACs.
Unfortunately I have no means to objectively quantify the differences I heard but I’ll say this, if I had the option to only keep one of the 3 (U1, U1 Mini and Hegel Mohican CD player), I would keep the U1 everyday and twice on Sunday.
I believe that your system is more than capable of revealing the performance improvement from the U1M to the U1 but I can’t tell if that is going to be case for your CD player, it could still be better than the U1 - only your ears will tell.
If you have the funds for the U1, get it from Upscale Audio, they have a 30 days return policy (if I recall correctly), you can give it a try to see if the upgrade is worthy, if not you can return it and remain happy with the U1M.
As a supplement great post here by Steven Huang of audio sensibility. He is a Lumin and SOTM dealer. Not exactly topical but he compares u1 mini to sotm and keeps adding enhancements to each side and gives his thoughts on each as you enhance each item and build a chain around them:
https://tinyurl.com/y5hhpjaj
I got a deal from a friend. You can always call Upscale Audio to ask for a deal, they usually give me deals when I call them instead of just placing an order online.
Well, I was able to get to try the U1 in my system this weekend. I agree with mrcypruz, it is better - don't know why (!) But it is. For me the difference is worth the extra cost. More refined, better highs, most as was previously described, but I'll try it this way. Like most good digital I've heard, in terms of upgrades, it just seems to put everything in its place better, in terms of the presentation. It's not just a factor of sound attributes (e.g., highs, timbre, dynamics, etc.) But of a more realistic presentation. And I think it is also in the realm of timing somehow. As an analogy, compare a 1960 movie in Technicolor - nice looking, but a modern movie in HD looks more like the real thing. The U1 mini sounds a little stunted in comparison. I had the SBooster as well. I also like the idea of being able to keep the U1 for a long time while being able to upgrade the DAC only, if desired, or like in my case presently pairing it with a great SACD player with DAC input.
@jimmy2615 I’m glad that you got a chance to try the U1, and your impressions give me a sense of sanity check. You described the differences between the two units in a more simplistic yet better way and easier to understand your observations. I agree with you with the value proposition of the U1, the price is worth it for the performance you get and it’s surely better that the U1 Mini. I also like the TV picture quality analogy, you couldn’t have said it any better.
I’m sorry for your wallet but happy for your ears. Happy listening and enjoy the U1 for years to come.
Snuphy91 and smodtactical, you’re more than welcome. Just trying to contribute to our magnificent community, hoping that someone finds the information useful.
Out of all the tweaks you mentioned, the only I didn’t do was to ground the U1 Mini. Now imagine if you do the same to the U1, you’ll surely pull even further ahead of the U1 Mini.
Btw, that Black Cat Tron digital cable is the same price as the U1 Mini, I can only imagine it doing wonders with the U1.
The U1 Mini + Black Cat Tron digital came puts you really close to the U1 price.
Interesting topic. I just had my Ayre QB9 upgraded to a Twenty. I bought my QB9 after it was first introduced in 2010 and that was a big deal back then. I find the premise of the 432 EVO Master intriguing but I’m not in the market at 11,000 Euros. By the time I will be able to make a large purchase, everything technological will have changed. It wasn’t long ago that MP 3 was the only file format we could download, so in ten years, these transports might seem archaic. When I bought my reference stereo, I purchased an ASR Emitter 2 amp and have never regretted it but an amp is far from being a digital streamer or a DAC or even a CD player. I think I’ll buy one of Cullen Cable’s Mac mini power cables and see if that makes an improvement. It’s the law of diminishing returns at this point and since I don’t stream a music server just isn’t pragmatic. However, if anyone might recommend an affordable way towards making a DAC (being used with a server, or DVD player) sound exceptionally better, please let me know.
Goofyfoot, unfortunately everything in the chain can make a significant difference.
I just upgraded from the D1 to U1 mini and it was quite the leap. I would have never imagined a streamer transport could make that much of a difference.
Even after my eye opening experience upgrading my digital cable to the Black Cat Tron, the mind seems to be quite unimaginative when it comes to these things.
Mrcyrpuz, after seeing what the Tron can do, I definitely would not skimp on the digital cable if I had a full size U1.
There is where a one box digital solution would make life a lot easier.
macdude, yes of course everything in the chain matters, that’s why my stereo sounds so good. However the problem with changing technologies is a serious consideration, especially for the companies building DAC’s and digital streamers. Ayre is a company that continues to upgrade their components because they want to keep there customers current. If Lumin had a reputation for doing the same, then I’d be less apprehensive about buying their product. I don’t want to have to drop a few thousand every six years in order to play a larger file size.
I owned both the Lumin U1 and dCS Network Bridge. For a number of reasons I don’t own either one now, I found the U1 sounded better to me than the Network Bridge. I was using both with a dCS Debussy DAC.
@sfseay wow Impressive. U1 is truly a marvel then. By the way its weird but lately I am finding my DI20HE alone sounds better than u1 mini and sounds better than the di20he+u1mini combo in a chain. Using I2s out of di20he and coax out of u1 mini. So the vs is not totally fair because of the different outputs.
macdude, it’s still six grand for the U1. If you already own one then great but for me, spending that kind of money should come with the peace of mind that I’ll be content for the next ten years. From reading around, it seems that Bricasti owners have compared their M5 to other transport/streamers and claim that for around 2,000.00, it’s a better option.
Maybe I’ll start saving for the M5 and hopefully by the time I’m ready to make a purchase, Bricasti will have made more improvements. I can say however that my stereo sounds very good given the quality of the recording I’m playing. Great recordings sound great and mediocre recording’s sound mediocre. The idea of making an average recording into a great sounding recording is for me, a fool’s errand. With my Ayre DAC, I am using the Uptone Audio reclocker with the linear power supply. And, I added an xlr Akiko tuning stick as well as a Synergistic Blue fuse and I found nothing objectionable about them. Sure there is always something better and I don’t object to improvements but I don’t want to spend more than I have to.
Yes, you have to remove the switching power supply inside the U1 mini.
Then install a DC kit from audio sensibility so you can power it with an LPS. The LPS remains external. The kit comes with all of the instructions.
It's a little nerve racking since you have to cut the red wire inside the Lumin to remove the IEC. But overall, it's pretty simple, and you get a reference streamer at a fraction of the cost of a U1.
That’s what I was thinking but it sounds like the kit is well thought through. I’m guessing that cutting that red wire will negate any warranty from Lumin so buying second hand isn’t really a compromise.
I can confirm that the U1 Mini mod is straight forward and relatively simple. I would recommend getting a used unit here on Audiogon or even my already modded unit (Lol) and not worry about warranty. I agree with all the tweaks being discussed here and they do enhance the performance of the U1 Mini but not to the U1 level. Also, those very same tweaks can be done on the big brother U1 to make it even better if you’re seeking the ultimate performance from a streamer. These tweaks when applied on the U1, will make it significantly better than the Mini, by a significant margin. However, if you’re just trying to get the most of the U1 Mini without spending a lot, then stick with the tweaks suggested here and be happy! $5.9k is a big chunk of change for a digital streamer.
If anyone is interested in a u1 mini modded to accept other ext PSUs besides sbooster I have a black one in great condition with a keces p8 PSU and ghent DC cable. I am in Canada but would consider shipping to usa. Hit me up if interested. Gonna try an upgraded ethernet cable (custom made, cat8 with telegartner terminations) on it. I really want to try the uptone though.
I’ll probably opt for the Uptone JS 2 amp linear power supply with their Mac Kit. Comes to around a thousand. In the long run, I’ll probably purchase a Naim Uniti Core and add the JS 2 to that. It’s precarious given whether I can find the Naim second hand but I’m on that path.
I use the U1 mini with a Black Cat Tron and Bakoon DAC 21, and this combination is just so musical and delivers so much insight into the music with finesse.
I remember the days when audiophiles said redbook CD didn’t have high enough of a sampling rate. Who knew we just didn’t have the right equipment to see what it could really do.
macdude, the cd's I heard in 1983 were poor transfers from an analogue source. Today with MOFI, Analogue Productions, etc... there is time and care given to making cd's as good as they can be. The art of digital recording, i.e. DSD recording, is also advanced when compared to just twenty years ago. And like you said, the equipment is becoming more technologically advanced. But for me, I personally do not believe that streaming is an optimal choice when it comes to sound quality. Quobuz and Tidal do not offer speciality labels like MOFI and I find that they are well worth purchasing. So I am more interested in a CD transport than a streamer. As ar as I can see, the Lumin U1 mini doesn't have a server for CD storage.
Streaming Tidal has a different sound than CD playback.
There are more variables to optimizing streaming. Many things we wouldn't initially think of.
Grounding the router with an Entreq box makes a big difference. And I run my router with the Uptone JS-2 LPS with a very good power cord that has noise absorption.
All of these upgrades will significantly improve the performance of streaming from the Lumin.
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